These guys just walk to a crowded place, leave a bomb and leave. Or they go and strap a bomb and kill innocent people. Both these acts of cowards because you are not choosing to fight your perceived enemy man to man, you are choosing to die in a microsecond which is easier compared to fighting and dying slowly, you are not choosing the positive way of trying to uplift your people by working for them. Islam used to be a brave religion with great armies once like the Ottoman turks, mughals in India, spain,..... Now it is just a sad religion without any of those examples of bravery. I am just starting to loose respect of this religion. Although I think the Shias in Islam are braver than the Sunnis- example Hizbollah and Iran. But the sunnis are 80% of muslims and right now i dont have much respect for the sunnis. These sunnis prefer suicide bombing and run away bombings compared to fighting man to man.
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Vivek Harry on Jul 26, 2008 07:17 PM Permalink
the Pro when he died forgot to make a will, I wonder why God did not tell his last Pro to give his last message properly and ever since then these people have killed other in the name of their Pro, is this how God sends an incompetent messenger, as soon as the messenger dies, his followers start killing each other, I will not believe any such messenger, it was God's responsibility to tell the Pro that he was about to die and select a successor, otherwise all this would not have occurred
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:25 PM Permalink
dont worry, the message has reached to his followers properly. any one who tries to torment his followers, will not have peace. muslims are peace loving community, but if you make their lives measurable, you will have to lose your mental peace too....
selection of successor is totally based of mutual concensus. prophet was not a tyrant who will appoint someone who will start doing any kind of act and will not be able to be removed. islam gives the perfect system and is not a monarchy what you are expecting......
and prophet's will was well take care off. you need not worry about that.
there is only one thing clear to every one, if you want peace. please let others live with peace...it is totally mutual...
islam says, DONT OPPRESS AND DONT GET OPPRESSED. BOTH ARE EQUALLY CRIME IN ISLAM....
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Vivek Harry on Jul 26, 2008 07:31 PM Permalink
if the message had reached properly then why was there so much fighting afterwards, even the Pro's sahaba were on opposite sides and fought each other till death, that is why there is this shia and sunni problem, otherwise shia and sunni would have been united, pity God gave such a incomplete message, I doubt whether it was God
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:20 PM Permalink
no body wants respect from you first of all....
secondly, attacking with tank on stone pelting youth of palestine and killing innocents in kashmir and calling them terrorist is a bigger coward act. i say stop oppressing and give justice to every one. go in the common people. see their problems. terrorism will vanish on its own.
if gujrat muslims are killed for no crime of theirs, then we are bound to have provide ready made recruits for terrorists. if justice is denied for the people, they take arms in the hands. it is law of nature. india has done this against britishers and india is not wearing the shoes of britishers. so what problem britishers faced, india is bound to face....
in the words of justice Hospet Suresh, "if we dont take care of the victims of injustice, and give them support to come out of their mental trauma, victims will take care of themselves, and that's the point".
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Vivek Harry on Jul 26, 2008 07:25 PM Permalink
according to you, justice is only possible in sharia where a women has to produce 4 witnesses for rape
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:36 PM Permalink
recently, there was a verdict that women may not have any witness and sign of rape, even then we shall admit that she has been raped...and there was a big furor in this same blog....
that was true islamic reaction. what if some women wants to take revenge. or may be some call girl wants more and threatens her costomer....
yes witness is required...
and if a women doesnt go in dark, alone and always accompanied with a man to escort and protect her, why she cant produce four witness. how a women can be raped otherwise..
even if someone forces entry in her house, her shouting will bring at least 50 people...
a women cant have four witness only when she with consent goes with someone and later claims that she has been raped and this is not allowed in islam. islam does the justice, not speculate and punishes...
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by JGN on Jul 26, 2008 07:47 PM Permalink
>>>>>>always accompanied with a man to escort and protect her............is this possible in 21st centry? Can you accompany all your female relatives wherever they want to go? That was the ideology of Tabiban and Saudi wahabi Islam. Do you want them to be implemented in 21st century India?
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by JGN on Jul 26, 2008 08:01 PM Permalink
Golden, it is realy waste of time to make brainwashed people like you to understand anything. We cannot go back to the 7th century Arabia. Change with the time or time will change you. That is the rule of nature.
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Reformer on Jul 26, 2008 10:09 PM Permalink
JGN, surely you are wasting your time by spreading your ill knowledge and sick conclusions about Islam...People know by themselves what is happening around the world..wwho is killing who..who is opressing who..and whose religious practices and teachings are peaceful and who don't even have a proper well defined religion to follow.
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:56 PM Permalink
it may not be possible for you but is possible for us and we are doing... wemen are the weaker part of the society, so they must take care of every measure which will protect them. recently, there was a safty tips for delhi women from police, and one among them was, women must not go in teh area where not many people go and there remains dark normally or a good amount of traffic is not there. why dont they think that it is 21 century and we cant do this....
message is clear, protection is required and quran ahs given some tips. if someone follows that tips, security is granted, if something still happens, punish according to shariah and the crime is bound to come down. only some arrogants will deny this fact, intellectuals have already accepted this.
RE:RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Vivek Harry on Jul 26, 2008 07:40 PM Permalink
so if a woman goes with one man, and he only makes 1 witness, so does that mean a woman should always have 4 men with her to give witness, what if those 4 men rape her
RE:RE:RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:58 PM Permalink
i can correct your doubt but you have big misunderstanding. please read the authentic books, and you will come to know the facts inshaAllah. may peace of Allah be to your both Vivek and JGN as you both seemed to talk senseful to me.
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Vivek Harry on Jul 26, 2008 08:08 PM Permalink
@golden, books cannot excel guru, you are my guru, now you answer my question, dont run away, I have good experience of you runnign away in the past also
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by JGN on Jul 26, 2008 07:23 PM Permalink
Golden, exactly. That is what happened after a compartment was burnt down. Till then the majority community were at the receiving end of all riots. I am not justifying the same here but every should understand that there is a limit to tolerance.
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Reformer on Jul 26, 2008 07:35 PM Permalink
The compartment was burnt out when a female belonging to minority group was molested...as all car sevaks were on a holiday trip and having full fun...and since they were majority in number at every station ( because of boarding in same train ) so they turned cocky...and started mischievous activities to arouse anger ... besides what was the point of that useless Gaurav yaatra or whatever they were going for? what exactly was the intention of that Yatra? what gaurav? what the hell they wanted to show with that gaurav yatra??? the moment it started everyone sensed the trouble will start. and suppose compartment was burnt...so did they wait for the inquiry...did they wait for justice...they started violence after 24 hours of incidant...that shows your point is wrong. on the other hand its 2008 and yet the accused of 93 riots and 2003 riots are roaming free..some of them are chief minister..some has enjoyed deputy prime minister ship..and some one is a party leader issuing statment of making suicide bombers for saving Hindus. I AM NOT ALSO JUSTIFYING THE TERROR ACTS OF BOMB BLASTS BUT HERE WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT NOT TO PLAY ONCE TO ONE GAME AND TRY TO DIVERT ATTENTION FROM THE ROOT CAUSE.
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by JGN on Jul 26, 2008 07:42 PM Permalink
>>>>>>>>The compartment was burnt out when a female belonging to minority group was molested........even if this is true, is it a justification for burning down all the occupants of that compartment?
I am quite sure that the incident was the result of some tussle between the unlicenced vendors (who happened to be Muslims) and the occupants of the compartment. I know how the unlicenced vendors behave in the Western Railway. I do not think that there was any "conspiracy" also.
Even fire tenders were not allowed to go near the burning compartment by the mob that tourched the train and that scene was repeated telecast on the TVs (I remember them very well). Once a mob takes over it takes time to control the situation. similar incidents have taken place in other parts of our country many times.
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Reformer on Jul 26, 2008 10:06 PM Permalink
JGN.. you remember very well that TV telecast..allright...so let there be inquiry...let there be arrest..and justice... that incidant was brutal..wrong...hideous... so..now ..are you saying that Gujrat carnage and other attrocities carried out day to day on muslims in India and Ivasion of Iraq and Afghansitan and killing of millions of civilians is a very right thing happening? be careful in choosing your word because they will finally confirm your level of logic,rationality and reasoning...and don't be diplomatic this time at least.
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Reformer on Jul 26, 2008 09:53 PM Permalink
JGN @"I am quite sure that the incident was the result of some tussle between the unlicenced vendors (who happened to be Muslims) .." well ..well..well...someone was talking about being unbaised..and looking into future...and talking truth...and here is the same someone who already have a perceived notion of that unlicenesed vendor being muslim and reason for tussel??? whose heart is filled here with total hatred so that even wild guess about a third person in discussion is filled with humiliation and hatred....and with such a confidance level...wow... you people surely are the worst hypcrites of this world...such is the level of hatred in your heart..once again proved here. and what kind of people got to GAURAV YATRA by abandoning their regular busy important life? either unemployed, bigoted, party workers of a party who have nothing to do except to eat, drink and party on party funds...or extremly bigoted educated professionals who think their own dharma and people are in danger ( in their own dominated country where they rule and have 90% presence in army, police,reserve forces and 100% presence in RAW, ATS etc with full use of minority opressing laws like POTA and TADA etc ) and it is their duty to save them. so these people, enticed by a mischievous purpose, inotxicated by the power of majority and assured impunity travelling in the train BEHAVED THEMSELVES??? I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT. BECAUE I PERSONALY WITNESSED MANY SUCH RALLIES AND MOSTLY THEY ARE DRUNK AND COCKY
RE:RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:53 PM Permalink
no, i agree with you, it is not justified but killing the real culprits and punishing them is justified. i am not supporting the burnign of compartment but if the mob attacks a girl, the mob has to face the reaction. if a mob is molesting a girl and trying to show their supermacy and taking the girl with them, it is justified to save the girl by punishing the SAME HOOLIGANS.....mind it the SAME HOOLIGANS...
yes, it is not justified to now go and kill another innocents just because these hooligans belonged to the same community.
brother, try to understand the situation and the facts and law of humanity. please dont be just blind. it will hurt every one. hatred only destroyes the self owner. so please let us save the entire humanity by not hating any one....
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Rationalist on Jul 26, 2008 09:05 PM Permalink
Cook up some stories to justify you cowardly act. There are not takers to your illogical stories here.
RE:RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:32 PM Permalink
let us talk about that much hyped and much hidden incident. who did this first of all? did the muslims who died in gujrat did it? if not then why they were killed. what is the responsibility of a govt.? to take revenge? those who did that crime of burning compartment are still roaming on the street and innocents have burnt for the no crime of theirs. and then the whole indian pseudo patriots are supporting and kissing the modi who did that carnage. infactg modi failed as a govt. in both the incidents. he could not nab the real culprits so he is not a good CM and then he ordered genocide of innocent muslims so he again doesnt deserve to remain CM. did muslims say, leave those who burnt the compartment though it is still not clear who did it. if my frnd ramesh cheats me, do i have a right to go and kill suresh, just because they both are hindus. go and take some medicin, if you are feeling fever. dont think irrelevant and idiotic ideas. now those who died in gujrat riot, what will they think? will they accept that since muslims are suspected for compartment burning, so it is justified to kill them?
in fact modi failed to be a good administrtor, he only proved himself a avenger and nothing else. and others who are supporting actually showing how inhuman they are. and all these injustice are increasing the innocent killings more and more. may Allah save the world and humanity....
DONT ABUSE MY RELIGION, AS I AM NOT ABUSING YOURS.
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by JGN on Jul 26, 2008 07:37 PM Permalink
Mr.Golden, I am not a supporter of BJP. So far as I know the way Mr. Modi handled the matter was much better than what the Congress Govts had done in similar situations (Anti-Sikh riots of 1984 and Mumbai riots of 1993). The Gujarat govt acted more swiftly and almost 300 hindus were also shot dead by the Police in the process. That was an unfortunate incident but you cannot remedy that by blasting innocents all over the country.
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:46 PM Permalink
this is called cunning mentality. why are you comparing these two incidents. also you are giving false data and trying to win some praise. i want to know why you want to make this modi as your hero. i know even if you dont tell. modi has killed plenty of muslims and has satisfied your ego. you accept it or not but this is correct. and talking about sikh riot. again something irrelevant. what sikh riots have to do with this event??
if hitler killed 6000000 innocents, can you say, atleast i killed 599999 so i am good....
bad is bad always, there is not relative things here. killing sikhs (innocents) was bad and killing muslims (innocents) is again bad. in one words, killing innocents is bad no matter what. Allah will take it revenge, all people belong to Allah, even hindus who dont worship Him. killing innocents is as good as killing the entire humanity and Allah forbids it upon any one.
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Golden on Jul 26, 2008 07:41 PM Permalink
first of all, why this example here. what that has to do with islam or this bombing which is the present issue here.
you people talk so irrelevant... did i say what banu quraiza did was right. first of all you dont know what has happened there. you only what western media wants you to know. you people dont do research, you get readymade food for your hatred filled mind so you just believe what west says...but i dont want to go in that argument. if someone has done something wrong, then it is wrong, where did i say, what musilms do is always right even if violates all the rules.. even this bombing, i dont know who has done this, but even if some musims have done this whose mother has been raped in gujrat, or brother has been killed in bombay, still it is wrong. killing innocent is not allowed, but the natural feeling is, it will continue and will happen again and again, unless we give justice to the oppressed one and make them feel secure in this society.
RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Vivek Harry on Jul 26, 2008 07:44 PM Permalink
@golden, mr. golden, time and time again, I feel that you expose your limited knowledge of Islam, please do read up on Banu Quraya, it is one of the greatest oppressive acts, genocide, committed by your Pro
RE:RE:RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Reformer on Jul 26, 2008 09:20 PM Permalink
yes..Banu Quraya was helping the Mushrik of Mecca to carry out secret night attack on muslims despite of signing peace treaty with muslims...they were providing them all the military and strategic information to the mushriks as well and trying to create unrest and dissatisfaction amongst muslims by spreading rumor.If that attack has been successful, the whole of the muslims would have died in one sweep..( a good and energizing thought for you..hai naa..but unfortunately for you and fortunately for me it did not happen ) So they muslims attacked them...( it was not genocide )..they closed themselves in their fort/city, and then sent some people for "negotiations" and then they asked prophet to make judge a person who belongs to their tribe ( banu quraya )..and prophet granted them their wish and asked them to choose by themselves..so "they selected" a moslim convert who earlier belog to banu quraya..and he gave verdict as all men who could fight should be beheaded..women, children, old and ill peoples should be spared..... so beta VIVEK...make inquiries before eating any shi*t that has been fed to you and shi*ting it here besides even if islam or mohammad were not there the arabs would have killed that tribe for traitory...that was the rule of time there..so don't judge it from present days culture and standards...speaking of genocide..what is your opinion about Muslim genocide in Kashmir by Indian Military and in Gujrat by BJP?..we have them on tape on tehelka..what say???
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by Vivek Harry on Jul 26, 2008 11:16 PM Permalink
beta reformer, the mushrik of mecca were outside the trench, there was no question of secret night attack, the women, children, old and ill people were not spared, they were made slaves, and sold, and sexually exploited, why do you delete half judgement, regarding the men, were all of them conspiring, then why all of them were killed after they had surrendered, and if all of them were guilty then why were 3 men who converted to Islam spared, does converting to Islam absolve a person of the guilt of conspiracy, what happened to your merciful prophet
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by asa asa on Jul 26, 2008 07:50 PM Permalink
See that is your people tactics.. first kill the innocent and then stand with them as victim and say "Islam means peace......NO IT MEAN SUBMISSION"....SUBMISSION to the sick theories and mentality of entire muslim clan which have false prophet and false everything. Betrayer of the country and world. We can never be friends with muslim. After 50 years of sucking our blood they are quoting "Gujrat". What have you done for your country. When hindus were fighting for independence. Your muslim clan was fighting for Pakistan. That's the truth. We gave it to you and out of saintly love of Mahatama Gandhi, we have let you stay also in this country. Bloody hell ! You destroyed your pakistan by making it hub of terrorist and you stab on our back by creating terrorist. If you love your religion that much.Go out with a gun and kill all of your muslim mess and come back and say that Gujrat...bloody hell.. whereever you people are dwelling are making problem for people. You worship moon ....Go and live there ...hahahahah
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by JGN on Jul 26, 2008 07:21 PM Permalink
The ideology of Shiias are more dangerous than that of the Sunnis and other sects of Islam. They consider the verse "go and kill the non-beleivers whereever they are found" as a universal obligation but the other sects consider the same was applicable to the Battle of Badr only.
RE:What religion promotes cowardice
by indiman on Jul 26, 2008 07:48 PM Permalink
that might be but I see hizbollah fighting the great israeli army to a standstill and forcing them to fall back, i see Iran poking the US in the eye, trying to do research in making nuclear bombs. On the other hand i see the sunnis al quaeda, harkat, jem, saudi royal family....... placing bombs and running away, exploding suicide bombs and the rest is for you to infer.
