Re: Indian pilots
by ojas suroo on Aug 28, 2008 10:33 PM Permalink
Yes Budget is the only factor that keeps IAF behind USAF. Else our Pilots and Su 30 MKi are the best in the world.
Not even our Air Force, our ISRO is also best in the world. The Head of NASA himself said during his visit to ISRO some 3-4 years earlier, that We are ahead of ISRO only because we have more budget, else the work done by Indian Scientists and Engieers is the better than NASA. A day will come when we will overcome poverty and other hinderances and will allocate more budget on Defence, Science and Technology, on that day no one will be able to compete with INDIA.
Re: Re: Indian pilots
by In Search on Aug 28, 2008 11:42 PM Permalink
Then why does ISRO has paltry 2% market of the world sattelite launches ?
Very valid point. In fact you must ask this question to your stupid Government and incompetent Ministers (who can't see a vision and set the road map).
I agree Russians are pioneers in this area. Sometimes even I've wondered why does ISRO always crazy partnering with NASA instead of Russians (ironically, NASA depends a lot on Russians. Example, Soyuz missions used in the International Space Station project).
Plus, working with Russians would give India Cost advantage too. But they don't prefer much working with Russia in Space area, only they wanna buy Arms and Weapons from the Russia.
Another problem ISRO facing is talent crunch! They need to recruit the best brains into organization and motivate them to the highest level. Also, they much pay their Engineers and Scientists higher than the IT employees. Then the ISRO's dream of thinking and making big WILL become true with tons of achievements.
(At least we must thank the people like Dr. APJ Kalam, Madhavan Nair etc for serving the mother India instead of moving to the United States!)
Re: Indian pilots
by Mahi on Aug 30, 2008 02:44 PM Permalink
It is not only the budget.The achievements which we have managed with small fraction of money in comparision to US is laudable . More so becaue we've managed it inspite of ungrateful scientists leaving the country for more money.
Re: Indian pilots
by ashwani walia on Aug 28, 2008 11:42 PM Permalink
please don,t use so heavy words that the IAF and ISRO are the best in the world. we are very thankful to Russian who gave us there used and outdated planes and the other equip to us. when u talk about the best u should talk about the number of planes in 1944 Us aircraft production was 94000. today if us want it can produce 1 million aircraft in one year. why we usually forget the numbers in comparison. we are miles behind USAF.
Re: Indian pilots
by Suriyanarayanan Subramaniam on Aug 29, 2008 12:49 AM Permalink
Indian Air Force Pilots are THE best. We are still flying '63 (??) vintage MIG 21 as good as the latest Su.30s to date.
imagine if we had a few Squadrons each of the F-16Mk IV ,F-15s and the F-18s not to mention the yank's Naval Jets !
Old timers who were in the IAF would remember that in the 60s there was a small joint Excercise called "SHIKSHA", and the Yanks with their F-86s Sabres and F-104 Star fighters tried and got chewed of by US !! EAST or WEST IAF Pilots are he BEST.
Re: Re: Indian pilots
by In Search on Aug 29, 2008 03:08 AM Permalink
Pride? In reality, Nationalistic Pride is slowly dying in India compared to countries like Israel, Russia, USA and China. The problem is more in the 20-35 age group, who are actually the youth aka Backbone of India! It's a real pity to read such statements written by the fellow Indians like you who talk so lowly about dedicated Indians and India's prestigious institutions like IAF. I would suggest better you stop making such statements (some members may take in offensive way and report abuse your efforts!). Thank you very much!
Re: Indian pilots
by Dhananjay Dalvi on Aug 28, 2008 10:14 PM Permalink
Dude, Its seem you have less knowledge on Aircrafts, Su 30 Maks 1 are the best, they made the F-16 run for their money
Re: Indian pilots
by Murthy on Aug 28, 2008 10:17 PM Permalink
You dalvi moron, F-16 was built in 1974, why the hell are you comparing a vintage plane with a 21st century plane ?
will you now compare Ford model T with Maruti Swift ?
The fact remains that USAF with the full package of AWACS, datalink, AMRAAMS and AESA radars US forces are unbeatable in the world and can wipe out entire IAF.
Re: Indian pilots
by Guest on Aug 28, 2008 10:42 PM Permalink
Dear Murthy, why do u get hyper and so keen for ur adopted country?? Last exercise with US where Indian Pilots actually beaten their us counterparts created big ripples in pentagon. With recent Red Alert excercise US officials admitted that IAF is great in terms of knowledge and Leadership and they r planning to Invite IAF every year for RED ALERT
Re: Indian pilots
by In Search on Aug 28, 2008 11:34 PM Permalink
Murthy, looks like you don't know much about the Jet Fighters development.
We can compare the Sukhoi fighters with F-16 or F-18 or even F-22 Raptor. It's nothing to do with the date of induction because most of the jet fighters continuously over the period of time undergo the modernization barring only one factor. That is a jet fighter's Aerodynamic design, which is more of less fixed. That's why you can find A, B, C, D etc 'variants'
There is no ratio adopted in the dog fights. It can be any number of fighters, that's the reason why the advanced Avionics in a Jet fighter is equipped to do the hot pursue the lethal combat with the help of Target Multi-Tracking capabilities.
So, let me know why a Su-30 can't be compared with say a F-18 Super Hornet? In fact Sukhoi will outperform these American jet fighters. That's because:
a) Super maneuverable Aerodynamics b) All Weather system c) Thrust Vector Control d) Advanced Radar and Avionics e) Superior Engine and Range f) Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat
So, instead of commenting IAF apply some mind in thinking why Indians have chosen to part with USAF. And this statement which really makes you really childish:
"US forces are unbeatable in the world and can wipe out entire IAF."
In fact Americans where stunned with the Sukhoi's and IAF pilot capabilities. And, FYI Americans never think like we are unbeatable - already lost to superior combination of Israeli pilots and Avionics!
Re: Indian pilots
by Murthy on Aug 29, 2008 12:27 AM Permalink
what lost ? they were GAMES with AESA radar DEACTIVATED and 4 US fighters versus 12 . Why are you not getting simple point ???
And yes USAF with the full package of AWACS, datalink, AMRAAMS and AESA radars US forces are unbeatable in the world and can wipe out entire IAF.
Their airforce dont do world war 2 dogfights which is not requird in modern day BVR scenario. Their awacs can spot planes from hundreds of miles away and then wipe out ANY hostile craft before it can even see.
May be India needs dogfights to fight against pakis.
With USAF is full force with all their systems activated can wipe out any other airforce and rule the skies.
BTW US has what India hasn't STEALTH ! Sukhoi will be fried before it can see it. Talking about alraedy DEPLOYED F-22 and upcoming F-35.
Re: Indian pilots
by Murthy on Aug 29, 2008 08:59 AM Permalink
You dont seem to have your concepts right. USAF doesn't fight aircraft v/s aircraft, they fight with their entire system - AWACS, J-STARS, ELINT birds.
Why is this simple thing not getting inside your HEAD ?
Also F-18 is a 1978 vintage and a generation 3 aircraft. Why do you keep on comparing it with a generation 4.5 aircraft like Sukhoi MKI ? What Australia accepted is true because F-18 is just what they need, they dont have China or Pakistan as neighbours. But Australia is getting F-35s. Regarding Isreal, the key technologies of their system are of American origins, example Phalcon radar.
And you are talking about Russian airforce using jingnastic rhetoric generalized statements without elaborationg.
US has bases in 90 countries of the world and their 13 aircraft carrier groups can mobilize air power to any area of the world in a shortest time possible as compared to any nation inclusing Russia which has just 1 such operational group. Whole Europe's security depends massively on USA, USA is the key member of NATO having 75% of its budget and weapons. USA is the only western nation with balls. IF USA withdraws from Europe, Russia will be into heavy bullying as it regularly does to its smaller neighbours, and obviously Europe knows this better than you and me, If not USA, does India have the capability to defent Europe against China or Russia ? USAF is global force unlike regional force like IAF.
Re: Indian pilots
by In Search on Aug 29, 2008 02:53 AM Permalink
Murthy, I know what you trying to assert which isn't true because USAF and US Navy are hyped due to many reasons like Movies and consisted earlier Cold War brain washing from the West (you see, am typing from the United States!!). So, these guys are like paper tiger scale. But US Army is much better.
Yes, I can agree with you about USAF has huge upper hand with IAF but NOT against Russian Air Force. I referred to Americans lost w.r.t annual Israeli Air Force exercise (each year they invite countries say like USA, Germany etc). Had you known these things you wouldn't have quoted to me again about AWACS, datalink, AMRAAMS blah blah. And maybe you know the Australian Air Forice openly accepted that F-18 super hornet is no match for Indian Sukhoi 30 MKIs.
This statement again shows your immaturity and solid grasp on the Global World Air powers:
"With USAF is full force with all their systems activated can wipe out any other airforce and rule the skies."
Wiping off kinda dream days are over. In terms of technology there are nations like Russia and Israel who can easily crack the USAF fighters and their weapon systems, which includes your much highlighted Raptor and Lightning. But you must remember one truth - Whatever US makes Israel gets it first and Russia breaks it first!
Yes, I can agree with stealth factor against the IAF but India and USA are not enemies. So, Indians can safely ignore this aspect and continue to surprise the USAF with the Russian built Sukhois!
