In today's "Witness" programme on NDTV, it highlights that DMK is opposed only to the "Aryan" gods... and Lord Rama, according to DMK, is one...
The other Gods like Murugan, Ganesha and Shiva, Shakti are worshipped as they are all considered "Politically correct Gods"...
Now, probably DMK back their concept of Aryan-Dravidan divide based on Max Muller's work... Surprisingly, the DMK do not look at the bias and controversies overlooking Max Muller's work and simply accept his theory which has proved as a trump card for their electoral battles... how clever!
Another notable point is that Ravana, who is considered as a dravidan icon, is a Brahmin and a Vedic scholar, a Samavedic and an ardent devotee of Lord Shiva... DMK have hidden this point in their wardrobes!
So it seems that while the DK/DMK have managed to hoodwink the guillible tamilians in their pursuit of "attaining the chair", the public, mislead by this clever political drama, are frenzied over their supremo karunanidhi and his false 'Dravidan ideologies"...
Tamilians comprise the intelligent, hardworking and tolerant lot of India, but the flip side is that they are also extremely egoistic and adamant...
So, now the situation is a standoff with the predominantly "backward" mass of Tamil Nadu conveniently choosing to follow the path which elevates their status, and thus are caught in an ideological dilema with having to choose between their "Salvation" leader karunanidhi and the "Disputed" Aryan concept...
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:09 PM Permalink
the BJP?RSS/VHP, which were formed to counter the islamin/christian rise in India, as is expected would naturally oppose the DMK in their meaningless pursuit of "Pseudo Atheistic perfection"...
In the same breath, one has to agree that while the Hindutva parties are not without fault, it is but a political offshoot which was to evolve from DMK's (and such other parties) agressive and assertive views on the Vedic culture and their consistent vandalism...
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by eatthis on Sep 25, 2007 11:18 PM Permalink
Ram slayed Ravana and all his relatives who were Brahmins, what do you think about that.
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:22 PM Permalink
who was ravanas sister and why wasnt she acceptable to lakshman.
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:24 PM Permalink
Dinesh, is that what you can muster as an intellectual counter question?
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:27 PM Permalink
seshadri,if it doesnt pass muster,whats ur opinion about the slaying of the shudra?
RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:31 PM Permalink
Dinesh, what's you opinion of the falsity of the Aryan-Dravidan concept???
RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:38 PM Permalink
seshadri,common sense tells me that there is a difference between the south indian and the north indian.
common sense also suggests that the north indians could have been later arrivals.
it is apparent that shiva and other nature gods were inherent in south india.
the devas with indra were possible north indian concepts.
RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:43 PM Permalink
Dinesh, common sense is not all; anyway this is not a subject to be decided by common sense...
There are various theories which show that we Indians differ, but only on geographical grounds...
Your basic premise, that north indians were later arrivals, is grounded.... also Shiva is also referred to in the Vedic scriptures as "Rudra"....
What is apparent? Dont counter without knowledge of what is said in the scriptures....
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:54 PM Permalink
seshadri,when the indus valley script is deciphered,the matter will be resolved.
the point is that we are discussing something that which happened 3000 to 4000 years back.
there has been intermingling and we are one nation with commonalities and differences.
i havent been to the cities of uttar pradesh and bihar to be able to say whether rama or shiva temples predominate.
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:58 PM Permalink
We accept Indus Valley civilization since we had uncovered it... so there is always a possibility that there may be more which are not yet uncovered...
Validating our arguments on such a floating base may not be correct...
RE:RE:RE:DMK\'s political twist unravelled...
by sathish ganapathy on Sep 25, 2007 11:26 PM Permalink
She is a former Miss India and Lakshman wants only Miss world and not Miss India to woo him! Might be helluva guy!
RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by eatthis on Sep 25, 2007 11:29 PM Permalink
Ravanas sister was so aggressive and loud mouth that she was sent away by Ravana with his another brother Khira to Dandakaranya. There is no reference to Shuparnakha ever having any husband.
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by sathish ganapathy on Sep 25, 2007 11:33 PM Permalink
I love these stories, really the absence of TV, internet,sports,movies,porn has triggered lot of creativity from our ancestors. They wud have written good scripts for our movies if Vyasa and Valmiki lives now.
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:35 PM Permalink
if rama slayed a shudra,doesnt he make a perfect example for revolutionaries who are trying to fight the oppressive caste system,which had over the centuries evolved to suffocate a majority of the population.the grip of the caste system with all its divine sanctions could be broken by attacking a god who slayed a shudra.
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:37 PM Permalink
Yes, absolutely, instead of voicing your concern against the cause, you are only aggravating the issue by vandalising a GOD...
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:39 PM Permalink
Dinesh, would a shudra killing a shudra be acceptable to you?
Would you still search for a political or a social correction in that?
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:42 PM Permalink
vandalising the god was done at the height of the movement to get the stark mesage to the people.
it was symbolic.
it could be done because rama was not worshipped.
rama was worshipped by the brahmins.
that could have been another factor.
the fact was rama was not worshipped.
when rama is attacked,the entire system of brahminism stands de mystified.
but brahmins were not attacked,neither were rama temples.
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:43 PM Permalink
seshadri,the reason why rama slayed the shudra was the crux of the argument.
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:47 PM Permalink
shiva is considered to be the creator and the destroyer.
probably,he is called vishnu in the role of a sustainer and brahma in the role of a creator.
the addition of the avatars could have been superimpositions.
the fact is that hindus believe in the cosmic energy of shiva.
rama was a king with his good qualities.
the myth could have been developed around his life,being an avatar.
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:48 PM Permalink
Dinesh, seems that you are fond of making sweeping statements without a touch with reality...
All devout hindus, other than followers of Ramasamy Naicken, worship Lord Rama; do they all look Brahmins to you?
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 25, 2007 11:49 PM Permalink
And Dinesh, where in Valmiki Ramayana do you find the story of Shambukh???
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 26, 2007 12:01 AM Permalink
Dinesh, so you want to worship Ravana? Well, you are at your liberty...!
But assuming that you have done a typo:
My post is to be interpreted as "not all those who worshop Lord Rama are Brahmins"... got it?
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 26, 2007 12:01 AM Permalink
seshadri,if u tell that the valmiki ramayana does not contain any reference to shambuka ,i will accept that till i can get a second opinion.
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Ramesh P on Sep 26, 2007 12:04 AM Permalink
Dinesh, may be in tamilnadu they teach you that way - Surpanka is sister of Ravana and they are all sons of "Pulasthya Brahma" - who is a brahmin. Ram ate the fruits given by sabari, and crossed the river in Guha's boat - both these are "Dalits" - in your words, but I see them only as great devotees.
Valmiki himself is a "hunter" and was elevated as Maharshi - just by his knowledge and character and not by his birth. The great sage viswamitra is not a brahmin by birth.
Krishna Says in BhagavadGita - Chapter4 - Chaturvarnam Mayasristam - Guna Karma vibahaga saha - He clearly said the four castes are by thier character and what they do. A brave boy is a kshatriya irrespective of his birth and a knowledgeable man is a "brahmin". Shivaji Maharaj was coronated by many brahmins from all over india - even though his caste in today's words is ST. A person's character and nature determines his caste and not the birth. If you look from a neutral perspective you can see that all these divisions of north-south - aryan-dravidian (which is disproved by atleast 3 eminet anthropologists and historians, and recently even proved genetically) are political than religious/historical - ppl with access to education and internet should atleast open thier eyes and see things for themselves than foolishly believing in some DMK propoganda and making the Karunas and Marans rich.
RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by r patil on Sep 25, 2007 11:47 PM Permalink
Who is this shudra tell me dinesh ,shambuk got this from dalit site(which is managed and maintained by usa christains).Lets say it is true, well as you dont the hindu costums hindus are not suppose to ask and care about a persons cast after they have given up caste job and taken sanyas.In marathi we have a saying that we should never try to find rivers root and rishi's kul(caste & dnynasti).Further more it is a hindu tradition that all are entitled to moksha regardless of caste,gender,race and even
human life even animals and plants have right to moksha.If you are familiar with any mythology of hindus you would know God gives a person whatever he wants even if the person is creul because it is his karma which earns him merit and not God's wish(which is biased with regard to islamic and christain od's as they favour only particular people from particular religion depending on their faith and not on their karma).
This story of shambuk is possibly a later day addition when caste system(i mean untouchbility)was at its peak.This story is totally inconsistant to the whole of ramayan as their not mention of one incident of similar kind,infact Ram would be first to kill Valmiki if this story is to be considered to be true.
As you know Valmiki was a decoit beloging from a lower cast who meditated and became rishi.By the way did you knew that Dr Ambedkar's uncle that is fater's brother was also a sanyasi.
And most importanly janak would have never adopted a abunded child whoes anc
RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by r patil on Sep 25, 2007 11:54 PM Permalink
cotinued:
janak would have never adopted a abunded child whoes anciestry and caste was unknown.FUrther more RAM would not have even gone to her sayamber and made her his wife if he was so cast consience.Further more rama has praised Hanuman for his exellent sanskrit and knowledge of vedas even though his was from a primitive tribe.
RE:RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by dinesh kumar on Sep 25, 2007 11:59 PM Permalink
patil,i will accept ur point that shambuk was a later add on,as im not a scholar of the ramayana.i will clarify and get back about that.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Ramesh P on Sep 26, 2007 12:14 AM Permalink
Vali is also dalit in your view?? My god - how twisted your mind is??
Again to answer your question - Vali is an animal and as per Raj Dharma - king has the right to kill "animals causing trouble" to protect others. Vali was bad and had the boon of taking half of the opponents energy - he took away sugreeva's wife. Even today if some idiot takes away a girl against her wishes from your family - and say your cousin beats him up and brings the girl back - do you blame your cousin ?? I am not a religious expert, but this very question was asked to many swamijis and they gave clear explainations on this. One more thing - Ramayana and Mahabharata will have both good and bad things - which show the examples of what a person should do and should not do in life. The dalit websites posted many reference to some puranas and vedas and upon checking the sources of the verses - I found that after digging enough either the verse is completly unrelated or its meaning is twisted. For example there was quote from PadmaPurana in a website (run by xtian desis) which says that Brahma married his daughter etcc. Upon reading the verse - it says Brahma created a woman through his creation and asked her whether she would marry him - she agreed. So you can see how these twisted brains can distort facts - if brahma married his daughter who is her mother ?? Indians and Hindus are always made to believe that anything "thiers" is inferior - example culture, religion, practises, and british succeeded
RE:DMK's political twist unravelled...
by Seshadri on Sep 26, 2007 12:19 AM Permalink
Ramesh, I would agree with you that the Christian and Islamic websites may have references which degrade the Vedic Culture...
It is the onus of every "Son of our Soil" to read for "himself" and then imbibe the essence...
I see many in this forum who do a google search, find out their supportive arguments and then query aggressively...
