RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:55 AM Permalink
CAN YOU QUOTE ME EXACTLY WHERE IN RAMAYAN, CURRENT PRACTICE OF CASTEISM BASED ON ONES BIRTH IS PRACTICED?
IF RAMAYANA ADVOCATES ORIGINAL CASTEISM, WHICH CLASSIFIES PEOPLE IN A SOCIETY IN TO ONLY 4 CLASSES (Bramhin, Vysya, Kshatriya & Sudra) AND THAT TOO, PURELY BASED ON ONES CHARACTER AND NOT ON BIRTH OR ANY OTHER CRITERIA, THEN, SUCH CASTEISM IS IN EVERY SOCIETY IN ALL OVER THE WORLD, INCLUDING YOUR SO CALLED DRAVIDIAN SOCIETY OF TAMIALNADU.
PLEASE DO QUOTE ME ON WHERE EXACTLY RAMAYAN ADVICATES BIRTH BASED CASTEISM.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:08 AM Permalink
First don%u2019t divide people into any caste. Because division leads nowhere except oppression. No Dravidian system classifies people in the name of caste. Our Tamil Hindu literature (that we follow during birth and death) by the Enlighten Manikkavasagar talks about no division. A same person is capable of doing service, protection, trade and getting knowledge in one birth. Ramayan clearly says that the duty of Kshatriya was to protect Brahmins. Some people say that Brahmins are Englighten one that needs protection. Our Englighten Manikkavasagar did not need protection and he did not ask for it. In the whole world, the fearless people are the Enlighten ones and they don%u2019t ask for protection. Ramayan promoted Brahmin/Kshatriya tandem was to impose castism on the people who don%u2019t believe in Caste.
does Ramayan advocate Caste or not? we don't care if it birth based or character based.
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:14 AM Permalink
GO AHEAD AND HAVE AN INDISCRIMINATE BEHAVIOR THAT IS NOT BASED ON THE CHARACTER OF A PERSON IN TAMILNADU AND YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED TO SEE THAT IN ONE GENERATION, TAMILNADU BECOME A LOST STATE OF INDIA. THIS IS BECAUSE, PEOPLE MEAN NOT JUST BODY, BUT PEOPLE MEAN CHARACTER OF A PERSON.
I HAVE A SIMPLE QUESTION TO YOU? WHEN YOU WANT TO INVITE SOMEONE NEW TO YOUR HOME, DO YOU NOT LOOK AT THE CHARACTER OR BENT OF THE MIND OF THE PERSON OR NOT? DO YOU INVITE THIS NEW PERSON WITH OUT EVEN EVALUATING THE CHARACTER OF THAT PERSON? IF YES, THEN YOU ARE TRUELY ENLIGHTENED PERSON WHO REALIZED THAT GOD IS ALL PERVADING. BUT IF YOU DO LOOK AT THE CHARACTER OF THE PEROSN BEFORE INVITING THAT PERSON TO YOUR HOE, THEN YOU ARE DOING DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CHARACTER (WHIHC IS NOTHING BUT ORIGINAL CASTE BEING PRACTICED BY YOU), WHICH AS PER YOUR DEFINITION, WRONG.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:19 AM Permalink
first you need to answer if Ramayan advocates caste system or not? I am not asking if it is birth based or character based. We are not talking who i invite to my home and who I don't invite. we are talking abt welfare of millions of people who are oppressed in the name of castes
RE:RE:RE:End of Castism
by Rationalist on Sep 26, 2007 06:28 AM Permalink
It is the Vedic knowledge that created division between Hindus and that led to India's conquest by foreigners. Vedic system led to 1000 years of foreign rule over India
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:24 AM Permalink
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO FIRST SAID THAT RAMAYANA DISCRIMINATES BASED ON CASTE OF A PERSON. CAN YOU PLEASE QUOTE ME WHERE EXACTLY IN RAMAYANA THIS DISCRIMINATION EXISTS? EVEN ONLINE POINTER IS FINE FOR ME.
ALSO, IN YOUR VIEW, WHAT IS A CASTE? I THINK, YOU ARE NOT CLEAR ABOUT IT. IN MY VIEW, CLASSIFICATION OF A PERSON SHOULD BE DONE BASED ON THE CHARACTER OF THAT PERSON. I MAY OR MAY NOT CALL IT AS A CASTE, BUT ITS NOT THE POINT. BUT SHOULD WE SHOW DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CHARACTER OF A PERSON? YES.
ALSO, PLEASE POINT ME TO RAMAYANA WHERE CASTE DISCRIMINATION IS SHOWN. WE CAN DISCUSS THINGS PEACEFULLY AND CALMLY RATHER THAN GET IRRITATED OR GETTING CONVERSATION UGLY.
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:42 AM Permalink
YOU ASKED WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF CASTE SYSTEM RIGHT:
WE SHOULD ATTRIBUTE CASTE SYSTEM (THOUGH SOME PEOPLE MISUSED IT FOR THEIR SELFISH MOTIVES) FOR PRESERVING THE VEDIC KNOWLEDGE THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR GENERATING CHRIST/KRISHNA LIKE SAINTS IN INDIA IN ALMOST EVERY GENERATION, WHILE THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOWS ONLY one or two ENLIGHTENED SAINTS OF THAT STATURE.
YEAH. I KNOW WE HAD FACED MAJOR PROBLEMSDUE TO PEOPLE MISUSING THIS SYSTEM, BUT WE SHOULD ACCOUNT THE PEOPLE FOR THIS MISTAKES THAT THEY DID RATHER THAN THE KNOWLEDGE ITSELF. IN THIS CASE, WE SHOULD ACCONT THOSE WHO USED ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM FOR THEIR SELFISH MOTIVES BUT WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE OR BLAME THE MOTIVES BEHIND OUR ANCESTORS IN IDENTIFYING THE CASTE SYSTEM THAT IS BASED ON CHARACTER OF A PERSON.
HAD WE NOT FOLLOWED THE CHARACTER BASED CLASSIFICATION SINCE AGES, HINDUISM WOULD NOT HAVE SPRING BACK TO LIFE INSPITE OF FACING BRUTAL FORCES LIKE ISLAMIC INVADERS e.t.c.
IT IS THIS VEDIC KNOWLEDGE THAT POWERS INDIA TOWARDS PROGRESS INSPITE OF HAVING MANY PROBLEMS AT THE MATERIAL AND MIND LEVEL. VEDIC KNOWLEDGE IS TO BE ATTRUBUTED FOR GIVING BIRTH TO SAINTS WHO REALIGNED THE DIRECTION OF HINDU SOCIETY IN TIMES OF NEED.
RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:31 AM Permalink
Mr.Sridhar, I did not say say that Ramayana Discriminates based on caste. I said Ramayana promotes caste system. What is the result of the caste system? 5000 years of oppression of working class people.
RE:End of Castism
by a a on Sep 26, 2007 05:24 AM Permalink
Cool. Lord Shiva is a Brahmin. Parvathi was a Kshatriya (being born to Himavaan). Technically Pilliyaar and Mururan are also Brahmin/ Kshatriya. And don't you know that Sivan always chants "Rama Rama..."?
RE:RE:End of Castism
by Rationalist on Sep 26, 2007 06:32 AM Permalink
Wrong answer. Murugan is a hunter god who belongs to TamilNadu. Making Murugan as the son of Siva is the later addition by upper caste people. Murugan doesn't have any caste
RE:End of Castism
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:20 AM Permalink
The state wide violence unleashed by the DMK cadres with the alleged connivance of the state police, under the leadership of Ministers, Mayors and MLAs, on the instigation of a senior cabinet minister with the knowledge of his party leader and Chief Minister, is most condemnable.
This state-sponsored violence was unleashed, despite the withdrawal of the statement by Ramvilas Vedanti, former BJP MP from Ayodhya .The alliance parties (PMK, DK, VSK, Congress & Communists), which in no time condemned the attack on the house of the CM's daughter in Bangalore, consequent to his insensitive & denigrating remarks on Lord Rama, didn't bother to condemn the violence perpetrated on the offices & residences of the BJP / VHP / RSS and Hindu Munnani leaders and that shows their total disregard to democratic principles and that has shown their lack of courage too.
The central government, which lost no time in condemning the Bangalore incident (surprisingly no loss of sleep this time), kept quiet on the DMK's statewide violence and instead, the UPA Chairperson Sonia supported the violence in the name of "fight against the communal forces". When compared with the Chief Minister's insensitive diatribes against Lord Rama, the silly statement issued by Ramvilas Vedanthi, a non-entity in Tamil Nadu, pales in to insignificance. When one can comment on a "Saami" (God), what is wrong in one commenting on an "Aasami" (Man)?
RE:RE:End of Castism
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:21 AM Permalink
(contd)The TMMK (Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam) leader Jawahirulla's comments against the BJP & RSS are unwarranted and his unnecessary interference in an issue involving DMK, BJP and Ramayana must be condemned in the strongest of terms. He had ridiculed the statement of Ramvilas Vedanti, which was misreported as a 'fatwa' by the media. He must be reminded that he belongs to the community, which issues 'fatwas' at anything & everything and that there are hundreds of fatwas still alive in this country, ranging from Salman Rushdie's case to Taslima Nasree's case. One wonders what business he has got to do with this issue and what right & authority he has got to comment on BJP! Incidentally, Jawahirulla was attached with Al Umma and he was a compatriot of Al Umma leader Basha along with the present TMMK president Hyder Ali during the attack on RSS headquarters in Chennai during 1992, in which 11 Swayamsevaks lost their precious lives. Jawahirulla & Hyder Ali left out with Basha (a planned move) and started the TMMK before the Coimbatore Blasts, as they anticipated the ban on Al Umma after the blasts.
The DMK & its allies are hyping the worthless SSCP as a project of unimaginable development in the name of Tamil & welfare of Tamils, while actually it is expected to benefit only a handful of 'Dravidian' leaders and their ilk . Instead of leading the people of the state along the line "Tamizhan enru sollada, Thalai nimirndhu nillada!" (Say you are a Tamil and keep yo
RE:End of Castism
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:32 AM Permalink
(contd) Instead of leading the people of the state along the line "Tamizhan enru sollada, Thalai nimirndhu nillada!" (Say you are a Tamil and keep your head high), the DPA leaders are misleading the people along the line "Dravidan enru sollada, Thalai kunindhu nillada!" (Say you are a Dravidan and hang your head in shame).
The fact of the matter is that, the central government has understood the inevitability of shelving the useless project due to various reasons, but the state government could not digest the fact and hence is venting it's purported anger against the central government on the BJP and other Hindu organizations! If the state government accepts the center's decision without any protest, it will lose its face and the misled people will cry foul and hence this drama.
The end result is that, this SSCP - Rama Sethu issue has made the people of this country (both believers & non-believers) to indulge in "Rama Namasmarana" that is thinking of Lord Rama and chanting his name, on a daily basis. "Ramlila" has started and very soon the people of this country in general and DMK / DK in particular will realize that Lord Rama is not an imaginary character, but the 'Avatar' of the Almighty God!
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:57 AM Permalink
SEE MY BELOW POSTING ON THE ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM. THIS SYSTEM OF CASTE CLASSIFICATION BASED ON A PERSONS CHARACTER IS PRACTICED EVERYWHERE. IT IS THIS CLASSIFICATION BASED ON ONES CHARACTER THAT CHRISTIANS USE TO APPOINT A PERSON AS A FATHER OF THE CHURCH AND USED BY MUSLIMS TO APPOINT A PERSON AS A IMAM OF A MOSQUE. SO, ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM IS PRACTICED ALL OVER THE WORLD DEAR FRIEND.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:15 AM Permalink
That's right. the whole world followed the political caste system. and it was a failed political system. that's why we are practising democracy now. Now, the democratic TN people want Sethu Canal for their welfare but the political caste believers want to impose their belief on hinder the progress of the poor people. This is nothing but imposing the castism on poor people to continue the oppression of 5000 years
RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:46 AM Permalink
In India, lower caste people are discriminated. and without lower caste's dirty job, upper caste can't lead a civilized life.
But, lower caste will discriminated just because they lower caste and they dirty job. Greate justification.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by Rationalist on Sep 26, 2007 06:26 AM Permalink
A person character changes depending on the situation. Humans don't have fixed character.
You are just endorsing a person character by the work they do. And you are promoting caste. we will fight against that and bring equivality to all hindus
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:54 AM Permalink
YOU ARE AGAIN LOOKING IN TO THE ACTIONS OF A PERSON TO DO DISCRIMINATION RATHER THAN CHARACTER.
IN ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM, A PERSON MAY BE A DHOBI OR A LAUNDRY PERSON, BUT IF HE IS OF HIGH CHARACTER, THEN THAT PERSON IS GIVEN GREAT IMPORTANCE. BUT THE ADULTERATED CASTE SYSTEM IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AS NOT JUSTIFIABLE WHICH I ALSO AGREE.
NEITHER WORK, NOR BIRTH NOR ANYTHING ELSE MAKES A PERSON ELIGIBLE TO BE CLASSIFIED AS A BRAMHIN OR ANY CLASS OTHER THAN SUDRA, EXCEPT THE CHARACTER. CHARACTER ALON DETERMINES A PERSONS TRUE CASTE.
