Dear JGN, I just want to share a thought with you. After studying religous books from various religions, I have come to conclusion that Indian Constitution is the best as far as the freedom, human rights, equlity, etc. are concerned. Most of our social problems will be solved if all Indian people give highest status to our constitution as that of given to various religous books like Manusmriti, Quran, Bible, etc. Thsi is due to the following reasons. 1. The constitution is bound by the Indian nationality only & is equal to all castes & religions. 2. Though it is bound by Indian nationality, it doesn't propagate hatred for other nationals. 3. The constitution can be reformed & upgraded as it is written by human beings for human beings. 4. The constitution talks about how to live in India in the existing life & doesn't assure or guide anything about getting a place in the Heaven or Hell after the death. Hence it is realistic. 5. An independednt learned judiciary system can always scrutinise the constitition which is in sharp contrast with the illiterate religious leaders giving judgements based upon the things written many centuries before. 6. As it is written by a bunch of learned people, there is no possibility of idolising the GOD or Profet or the book itself! Religous fanatics are going to be the biggest obstacle in the growth of the country in the next two decades. Religous fanatics can be sidelined effectively from our path towards progress by doing this.
RE:Attn JGN
by Anand YNI on Oct 19, 2007 03:40 PM Permalink
Dear Arjun, JGN and Rehana,
Your comments are interesting.
I wish you had restricted yourselves to the point, that is the Constitution of India instead of bringing into picture other items such as Gulliver's Travels, Aesop's Fables, Panchatantra or Mulla Naziruddin Stories & other religious books. Since we are on the topic, without meaning anything bad (or good) to anyone, let me make my points here:
A person's knowledge is as much as or less than what he acquires during his lifetime. Unless one has read or understood the meaning of scriptures or the stories under discussion, one really can not comment on them. For example, how many of you have read the great Srimad Bhagavadgita, esp chapters 2, 3, 4 & 14 to 18? In chapter 2, the Lord describes the qualities of a person with unwavering mind. In chapter 16, the Lord describes the qualities of a person with demoniac qualities. The living example of such a person (there are many) is the great HDD Gowda. For them, Constitution has no meaning. Self interest in the only thing they are interested in. Mind you, such qualities were described 1000s of years ago by the wise people with vision. Aesop's fables are an easy way to understand what life is. Similarly Panchatantra stories give us the gist of how to conduct in life. If one can follow the gist of these fables, we do not need any constitution!!
Constitution is nothing but gist of all these. It is better to restrict to what you uphold instead of looking down upon others.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 19, 2007 04:23 PM Permalink
Dear Anand, you have misunderstood the context in which I had referred to those books. We do not tell anybody that such and such things are written in Gulliver's Travels, Aesop's Fables, Panchatantra or Mulla Naziruddin Stories and are therefore gospel truths. What I meant was that there is no need to treat the so-called holy books also more seriously.
I have read the complete Mahabharata (Srimad Bhagavadgita is a part of the same). It contains some universal truth but is not a guide for conducting every day life for all times to come. If we treat the same as more than good advice, we also fall into the dogmas of Semitic religions (they consider Torah, Bible and Koran as revealed by the Almighty and irrefutable).
The Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc are epics containing moral stories. They are meant for refining the reader's character. A good portion of Mahabharata contains stories (sub-plots) narrated by the well-wishers visiting the Pandavas to lighten their suffering in exile and make them understand that many others also suffered like them earlier (e.g. story of Nala & Damayanti) and as such they should not lose heart.
The Author of Mahabharata was partial to one family. It is a debateable point as to whether the Pandavas or the Kauravas had the right to inherit the throne. The Pandavas were not sons of Pandus whereas the Kauravas were the sons of Dritarashtra (albight thru the division of the foetus by Ved Vyas).
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by Anand YNI on Oct 19, 2007 09:21 PM Permalink
Dear JGN,
How nice of you for beeing very polite and yet making your point! Most of what you have written is correct and I agree with you. However, if one strictly follows the principles in toto of what is written is for eg, Srimad Bhagavadgita, all the problems faced by the world is likely to alleviate. Again, it is my opinion. As already explained, it for each individual to interpret the meanings of the scriptures and adopt the same for the betterment of the society instead of the pointless mudslinging that most are doing.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 04:12 PM Permalink
Dear Arjun Periyar, I totally agree with you. The Constitution of India, is one of the most progressive document and guarantees equality to all irrespective caste, creed, colour or religion. Such divisions are artificial and have no relevance in today's world driven by science and technology. Even if we are not able to help others, we should not create any problem for them and certainly should not preach hatred. All the best.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 04:51 PM Permalink
Dear Arjun, pl see the following link:
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/aft.htm
I have not explored the same completely but seems to be a site promoting scientific temperament and free of religious dogmas. You can write to me at JGN190@rediffmial.com
RE:Attn JGN
by Rehana Khan on Oct 18, 2007 02:44 PM Permalink
Good thoughts! Constitution is already having the supreme status in the judiciary & parliament. But replacement of religious books by constitution looks impossible.
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by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 04:22 PM Permalink
Dear Rehana Khan, we can certainly restrict our religious beliefs to our homes and interact with the members of other communities in a secular manner. The so-called holy books are creations of surrealistic visionaries and are no more serious than Gulliver's Travels, Aesop's Fables, Panchatantra or Mulla Naziruddin Stories! The religions and gods are inventions of vested interests to further their selfish motives.
RE:Attn JGN
by Rehana Khan on Oct 18, 2007 05:42 PM Permalink
Dear JGN, I think you are talking ahead of time. What you are saying sounds theorotically correct but is very difficult to make understand to the common people & religious leaders. Perhaps you can think like this because you might have grown up in the free enviornment. But though I have grown-up in an educated family, what I am seeing since my childhood is a very strong grip of the religion over the society. I think in all the religions the most opressed class is the female. Unless girls & women in the society are educated, it will not be possible to release the grip of the religion over the society. I still wonder why all religions have been founded by men only! No religion is talking about equal status of male & female. Indian constitution is superior to all religions in this aspect.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 07:02 PM Permalink
Dear Rehana Khan, there is no reason why the followers of all religions cannot co-exist peacefully in India when an orthodox country like Saudi Arabia, following Wahabi Islam allows Hindus, Christians, etc to work in their country.
The real strength of our country is harmony in variety. There are only a handful of people who harbour any hatred for the followers of other religions. This is an exception rather than a rule.
As you hv mentioned earlier, the Godhra incident was really despicable but we have learn a lesson from the same and move forward. I was at Vatva in Ahmedabad a day before the incident for evaluation of a factory owned by a Muslim and my report was sent to our H.O. after the tragic event. Still I had recommended purchase of materials from them and had called up the owner of the factory to enquire about his welfare.
I fully agree with you that the females are supressed in all religions. Before the French Revolution, the concept of equality was unheard of. As the religions were founded by men and they had a notion that the females of the species are meant for their enjoyment, equality was not allowed (rather prescribed supression in the name of non-existent gods!) Education of girls is very important as shaping the future generation is in their hands. An old Tamil song roughly translates to "every child is good at birth, but it is the upbringing by his mother which makes him good or bad"
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 07:43 PM Permalink
Dear Rehana Khan, there is a strong grip of clergy on the followers of Semitic religions (Christianity, Islam & Jew). They can force the members of their community into submission at the threat of social boycott (and even denying permission to bury the dead). In hinduism, we don't have to worry about such things as no body can issue an edict (fatwa) nor are we bound by something written in a book hundreds of years ago. We also have the freedom to believe in any god/gods or not to believe also.
