I understand that we need electricity and nuclear is the best option but why from USA and not devlope indigeniously?To me its demeaning of the countrys' scientist. Given an opprtunity they can sure devlope technology based on thorium (which exists in plenty in India). Electricy at the cost of national soverignity would be too expensive. There are other avenues -Wind (India has a huge coast line -One can use Wind and sea power to generate electricity). Why looking for short cuts? This congress has ruled for 50 years. What the leaders were doing to solve India's infrastrucutre? Vajpayee intiated the road building exercsie and this govt is hell bent in showcasing this as an important achievment. But in India the mood is still-anti america and the USA need to do a lot more to win the trust of India's aam admi. Still Indians consider America to be close with Pakistan. The fact is American choose countries to use them to fullfil their own agenda. Let the UPA make it public about the safegaurd as last time when PM was assuring the parliament his counterpart in white house was denying it. We will devlop and progress on our own than being slave and dependent on someone else. However Diggiraja has used this interview to show his sycophancy (Chamcha giri) and loylaty for Madam without her permission no congress man goes to loo!. I want to ask one question -Most of the minsiters in this UPA govt are from rajya sabha. So whom they are accountbale to -The people of India or Madam Sonia? Th
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Arvind Singh on Oct 10, 2007 04:59 PM Permalink
Yes true, slow and steady wins the race in matter of development, economy and civilisation. If u go fast u will only perish. People must remember Tortoise and Hare story. We are also resposible for our future generation, do you want to see everything in your generation and don't want to see that your futures get cleaner environment. India should do everything at its own pace and in its own terms and condition (that requires majority, majority means 66% of votes in parliament). Let India take its own time and achive everything own its own by genuine friends who are ready to help but not make it dependent. Hope people appreciate it, they must be thinking that they will be left behind China in the race...so what China is hare it has capability to run fast, India must concentrate on developing skilled force, infrastrcture and must see itself always growing, 2020 is superficial target which is not proactical, we maynot have even good roads to all cities by then, we must keep growing, just developing 6 cities won't make u adeveloped nation.
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by vinamra singhai on Oct 10, 2007 05:40 PM Permalink
after funding Green Revolution in India, building IIT - Kanpur, putting pressure on Britain to grant independence to india, sending nuclear missiles to india to counter china attack in 1962, etc..and even after that "in India the mood is still-anti america and the USA need to do a lot more to win the trust of India's aam admi"...what more do you want USA to do...
It is india who has to work hard so that USA should help us..after treating US Presidents very badly ...
don't forget that Indira Gandhi gave dry chappatis and water as food to Richard Nixon on his visit...
After breaking so many international laws..we are getting nuclear deal..we should be happy....we are getting something that we don't deserve...
RE:RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Arvind Singh on Oct 10, 2007 05:53 PM Permalink
We donot want it either, begging days has to be forgotten in name of Nehru. We must earn our living with our work and mettle. We must build our nation ourself, beggars have have no place as they get into habbit of only begging an making sorry faces thats why with beggars like Sonia Ghandhi an Manmohan (showing his begging degree) begged Bush he told have it, so as a nation should we have that or not must be decided by democratic means, that means majority. I know u r one of those with a begging bowl and donot want India to prosper in along run which is self-build, u want it to be dependent on others..right Mr. v singhai
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by vinamra singhai on Oct 10, 2007 06:40 PM Permalink
u haven't prive that how india is self built?...why don't you stop having food from today and start growing your own vegetables...stop using net and places tooo...start something on your own....but you know you won't do it...cause you are a beggar and want more in begging...u r never satisfy....
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Rogar Dat on Oct 10, 2007 06:49 PM Permalink
Mr.vinamra singhai the a*ss licker of US .... dont spit shit here ok ... remember its the same US .. which strips our leaders. Green revolution ... my foot ... afta 30 yrs .. hospitals are growin ... now ppl are shiftin bio-organic food. n abt IITK ... again they had made it clear that it wud give them .. gud student... withhout pumpin MORE dollar in their land... haa haa puttin pressure on britain..good joke! yes ... again durin war wth PAK ..they supported pak ...
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by PRADEEPKUMAR on Oct 10, 2007 06:08 PM Permalink
See mr Vinamra, Otherwise Indira Gandhi should do like that, she had a strong back born. America will try to give something for India, Actuly, it will not a friendship mint, only for business.We have lot of naturel sources to make Ele. Power, An Indian, I say we no need the pice of that born
RE:RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by vinamra singhai on Oct 10, 2007 06:42 PM Permalink
"We have lot of naturel sources to make Ele. Power"...give some examples...and if we don't need that..why r we still running tarapur power station..
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Viswanathan CS on Oct 10, 2007 05:07 PM Permalink
Some points to remember:
1) China signed 123 agreement with USA 20 years ago with much more stringent clauses. 2) China has large nuclear power plants meeting power requirements of the country due to this agreement. 3) China also got access to advanced technology through this agreement and has recently demonstrated its capability by smashing a satellite in space using a missile %u2013 a capability which has made even USA sit up. 4) The same China has mentioned that if USA goes ahead with operationalization of 123 agreement with INDIA, it will get into agreements with Pakistan providing advanced nuclear know how. Why China wants to stop India from Getting what it has already achieved? It is Economic warfare. 5) China has drawn up plans to divert Bramhaputra waters northwards into central China. This will impact India in a major way. It is again like initiating an economic warfare. 6) China has now laid railways from Beijing upto Lhasa, which is almost reaching our borders!! Capable of carrying their troops/ammunition/guns. Not in our interest!! 7) China had recently moved their army into No Man Land near Nathu La pass, and started pushing into area held by Indian troops. They started pressing Indian troops to remove Indian Posts. This area faces the Chicken Neck (thin land area connecting Rest of India to North East (Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc.). While China and India has been talking since more than 20 years for settling border disputes and seeking friendship, this
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by rabinarayana mishra on Oct 10, 2007 05:51 PM Permalink
i complete ly agree with u. but u left one point *) china backs left parties to fullfill their agenda.
and some fools in our country can't understand it ,even after all these things.
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Rinku on Oct 10, 2007 05:49 PM Permalink
Vishwanathan, don't go hyper with all those media stories trying to create havoc of China. These are planted stories to create illusion that we need this deal to counter China. The fact is that China got nuclear deal due to its status as 'Nuclear State'. I hope u know that it is one of the five nuclear states! Moreover, even if China wants to have a nuclear deal with Pakistan, then u must know that thanks to Abdul Kadir Khan, the deal can not be passed in IAEA. Apart from it, China is already running Pakistan's nuclear program single-handedly, so even if she comes out with any new deal, there is nothing new to fear about. Third, if someone thinks that nuclear power is the only source to meed our power need, then think again. First nuclear power plants leaks muck radiation that ppl will not need CO2 to die. Second, this deal is urenium based Which we will have to import fully. So this deal is nothing but pressure from urenium rich countries like Australia, France, USA and others. Fourth, if we produce thorium based power, it will be less harmful and cost effective than urenium because we have plenty of thorium reserve.
I think what we general Indians need to understand that to counter China, we need not to fall in the lap of America. America is no less harmful than China.
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Viswanathan CS on Oct 10, 2007 09:04 PM Permalink
Agree that Hyde Act is the difference between Indo-US 123 agreement and China-US 123 Agreement. This could lead to US pressure while taking certain policy decisions - for example, policy relating to Iran. Even then, the basis has always to be self-interest. The thrust of argument is that we need to be pragmatic while taking policy decisions, and not driven by idealistic or dogmatic approach at the cost of self-interest.
We had entered into 25-year Friendship agreement with USSR even when we were strong protagonists of non-aligned movement. This was the requirement of the time and we went ahead. As a consequence, we not only purchased air crafts/tanks/radars from USSR to meet the immediate requirement (remember Pak war in 1971?) but also got facilities/know-how/support for manufacture/maintenance of the advanced war machineries. This stood us in good stead. I am not sure how many times we had to take policy decisions which contravened our sovereignty as such points do not appear in print. As long as it does not hurt our self-interest, it does not matter. This is what I mean by pragmatism.
In international relations, there is no permanent friends or foes. No country in the world enters into any agreement without any self-interest. When USSR entered into agreement with India in 1970-71, they definitely had self-interest.
We can remain sovereign and independent only if we are economically and militarily strong. For our economic prosperity, we need power soon enough. I
RE:RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Viswanathan CS on Oct 10, 2007 09:05 PM Permalink
Contd...
We can remain sovereign and independent only if we are economically and militarily strong. For our economic prosperity, we need power soon enough. In order to meet our immediate requirements for next 10-12 years, we need to enter into nuclear group. It is also important that we counter those Chinese moves, which are not in our national interest. These are realities whether we like it or not. One door to this is through agreement with US. If there is any other door, let it be known. Otherwise, as we entered into friendship agreement with USSR in 19970-71, we now need to enter into 123 agreement with USA
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by alok ranjan on Oct 10, 2007 05:25 PM Permalink
But My dear Friend.. The difference in Ino-USA nad China-USA 123 agreement that "that the deal With indian will be bound to internal act]laws of both country and if its break any mentioned term in Local Law, then any party can terminate the deal". And US has Passed Hyde act that will come in to the picture incase..
a. india go for A Test
b.Indian doesnt support US foreign policy...can be like attack on iraq etc, will is against our national interest as we are in the process for A gas pipeline..
The hyde act is very hard as per as US law are concern...........and if at nay point the fails......well...it will be too late to start all over again.
While the Agreement whivh China is only bound with international law [following IAEA guideline]....so Hyde act come in to picture.......and we can see A Free Chinese foreign policy.
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Viswanathan CS on Oct 10, 2007 05:09 PM Permalink
Contd...
7) China had recently moved their army into No Man Land near Nathu La pass, and started pushing into area held by Indian troops. They started pressing Indian troops to remove Indian Posts. This area faces the Chicken Neck (thin land area connecting Rest of India to North East (Assam, Arunachal Pradesh etc.). While China and India has been talking since more than 20 years for settling border disputes and seeking friendship, this act of China cannot be considered a friendly act. 8) Just before last visit of Chinese PM to India, their Foreign minister had made a public statement that Arunachal Pradesh belonged to China. Moreover they rejected visa request from one Arunachasl Pradesh Minister to visit China for attending an international seminar their on the ground that he was a Chinese national (Arunachal Pradesh being part of China) and did not need a Visa!! 9) China has tried covertly to sabotage the 123 agreement and its operationalization. Also, after India signed the 123 Agreement with USA, China has gone into a major shopping spree for Uranium booking all major source of Uranium internationally for next 20 years. Even if now India operationalizes the 123 Agreement, not much Uranium will be available for buying. In fact international price has already doubled in last few months. Another instance of economic warfare.
Whether we like it or not, our independence, sovereignity and borders are already at great risk even without agreement with USA. Our policy
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by vineet kk on Oct 10, 2007 06:43 PM Permalink
It is easy to say that we have the best scientists and have the capability to develope this on our own. But practically speaking, it is impossible without the help of more established nations. It is not to demean our scientists, but it is a fact. And we are rapidly growing and need power to grow further. So please support the nuclear deal and use your powers to weaken the forces which are opposing the deal.
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Rakesh Bhandary on Oct 10, 2007 05:19 PM Permalink
Thorium development..... sounds like another LCA project, expensive, delayed and no results in sight (atleast for another two decades). India's thorium research has been going on for nearly 30 years now. The need for electricity is right now and very soon. India's uranium reserves are very few. This decision maybe be demeaning to the country's scientist (according to Sanjeev Singh), but let's be practical here. We need electricity to irrigate land, run our industries and increase our productivity, if we really want to compete with China.
They have made country wide improvements, especially towards north-east India, while our government has persistently neglected that part. While China had constructed a railway line, we haven't even built high speed roads connecting north-east with rest of India. As far as Diggi Raja and Nehru-Gandhi clan are concerned, they can all go to hell (but who will pack them off to that place!). Even the devil will groan!
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by Viswanathan CS on Oct 10, 2007 05:11 PM Permalink
Contd.. Whether we like it or not, our independence, sovereignity and borders are already at great risk even without agreement with USA. Our policy of "Non Aligned Independent National Policy" combined with pragmatic approach of China (China signing the same 123 agreement with USA 20 years ago) has already led us to current disparity and risk.
It is not too late to wake even now. We must learn to take pragmatic decisions in National Interest without being idealistic. Wake up, Left, to the realities!!!
RE:Nuclear deal in National Interest
by subhrasom banerjee on Oct 10, 2007 04:59 PM Permalink
Issue is not only technology but constant supply of nuclear fuel which india lacs.
