Milind, I as a student of History will not deny the desctruction brought about by the Muslim Invaders. But the way you guys analyze it, seem to suggest that Muslims ravaged India. Do not forget that they were INVADERS. Was it any different when the English INVADED India ? Was it any different when the Germans INVADED France ? Was it any different when the Japanese INVADED China ?
You see to hold on to the "Muslim" part and convienently forget the "INVADERS". Invaders are power hungry individuals that will go to any extend to control the population.
As a student of Islam, I can categorically say that Islam is against such invasions, such destruction of human life and also the disrespect of other beliefs.
The concept of Hindutva seems to be as shallow and as naive as the concept of Taliban in Afganistan. I see no different and I oppose both. In todays world we do not need an Islamic State. I say that as a Muslim. The idea of Islamic state was implemented because of religious prosecution of the Muslims in the Arab Lands. Today and person can freely practise his/her religion without any retribution. That throws out the entire argument of a Muslim/Islamic State.
As for an Hindu state, that is for you guys to decide. In my opinion, we need a state that respects individual rights and freedom. A state with small, but efficient governments. A state with more individual responsibility rather than a "Welfare State".
RE:Response to Milind...
by Subba on Nov 07, 2007 11:55 PM Permalink
Man Imran, you are the first person who have spoken sensically in here, in all the times I have read the comments.
RE:Response to Milind...
by nandu rajurikar on Nov 07, 2007 11:31 PM Permalink
When Hindus talk about invaders, they forget that they themselves were invaders.
Rig Veda has prayers that say, Hey Indra, kill the Panis, Nags & Dasyus. Give their forts, cows & women to us. Need any other solid proof?
Hindus destroyed the temples of original inhabitants. They encroached on the Adivasi culture. The temple of Jagannathpuri was hijacked by Hindus from the Adivasis. The Lenyadri Ganesh temple in Maharashtra was originally a Budhhist cave.
Every invader wants to consolidate after capturing a new territory. The invader also wants to demoralise the defeated. Hence his first attack happens on the temples & women.
Invading Hindus, Muslims & Christians are no exception to this. But some people think that pointing fingers at oyhers would absolve them of their own sins!
RE:RE:Response to Milind...
by Milind on Nov 07, 2007 11:38 PM Permalink
Nandu, Dont talk about Indra unless you know where he is placed in the Hindu mythology. All Hindu mythological stories portray him as a villain. I have not seen anyone who worhips Indra.
RE:Response to Milind...
by Milind on Nov 07, 2007 11:35 PM Permalink
Imran, you missed the main point though I agree with the other points that you mentioned.
Inspite of accepting the fact the Hindu temples were destroyed by Invaders, Muslims are not willing to undo the damage to a couple of main temples such as in Mathura and Ayodhya. This is the cause of the Frustration amongst Hindus.
The frustration amongst Muslims during Modi rule will be justified as long as they mention the Godhra massacare along with the Gujrath riots.
As a secular Indian, I believe in genuine equality. Muslims should be given Haj subsidy as long as Hindus, Christians & Rest get the same for visiting their places of worship. Hindus in Kaashmir should be given minority status like Muslims in the rest of India get. Instead Hindu pandits are driven away by ethnic cleansing. That would cause frustration wouldnt it ?
Regarding invaders, if you claim that "Invasion is against the ideals of Islam", why did they do it ? Noone mention Christian invaders since they have been defeated and have left India and their damage has been partiall undone. I say partially since they have left converted Indians who do not oppose religions conversion of Hindus. If the muslim invaders were not true muslims atleast you are. Why dont you want to undo their mistakes. Atleast in principle if not in action. Is that asking for too much ?
RE:RE:Response to Milind...
by Imran on Nov 08, 2007 12:06 AM Permalink
Why do u keep talking about invasions dude its nothing to do with religion man always wanst to invade others like how Bush is doing in iraq
RE:Response to Milind...
by Milind on Nov 07, 2007 11:54 PM Permalink
Do you know of any mistakes that Hindus have done to other religions such as Muslims or Christians ? I already mentioned my disapproval of Modi during Gujrath riots as long as you mention Godhra massacre simultaneously.
We are ashamed that most injustice has been done by Hindus to our own brothers such as the Dalits or even Sikhs during the 1984 riots. Instead of fixing this, Congress is now trying to divide Hindus on caste lines. They want Dalits to remain dalits forever and that is very frustrating to me.
RE:Response to Milind...
by Imran on Nov 08, 2007 12:00 AM Permalink
Dude why do u want temples and mosques y cant u pray inside ur house. Organized religion is the root cause of evil and should be banned.
RE:Response to Milind...
by laadlabakdaas on Nov 07, 2007 11:25 PM Permalink
don't ever equate hindutva with islam. there is a reason why pakistan was formed. there is a reason why pakistan has become a failed state. don't just be blind about your religion. Above all stop being smart by criticizing your religion on a smaller scale and another religion on a greater scale. individual rights are respected more in a hindu country than any other Islamic country barring Turkey.
Even Malaysia is biased towards Bhumiputras!!! and coming to invasion if u really think the muslims in india were converts during the invasion then it should simply stop there rather than owing allegiance to islam's native place. how about encouragin muslims to follow a common civil code???
RE:RE:Response to Milind...
by nandu rajurikar on Nov 07, 2007 11:33 PM Permalink
Chief Justice of Supreme Court said that SC has given many incorrect decisions!
RE:RE:Response to Milind...
by nandu rajurikar on Nov 07, 2007 11:38 PM Permalink
Nepal was a Hindu country & its performance on individual rights is known to world.
India is NOT a Hindu country. Its a secular country because of secular citizens like us! There was a demand by extreme Hindu element in 1947 to declare India as a Hindu State. Nehru crushed it under his feet!
