Reservation as an issue has become an emotional one.The proponents have only one reason,an emotional one, that the Dalits have been discriminated for thousands of years.This has become axiomatic in all discussions. What is surprising is why don't they press for institutions for Dalits only. It is strange that pro reservationists want reservations in the existing institutions without asking for special educational facilities dedicated completely for their uplift. As an example, if the average age for a general category student for leaving school is 16 years, the corresponding age for say a completely reserved school could be 18 years. Likewise a different pattern of education could be implemented that will encourage better quality standards to be easily implemented. The Govt could also support such schools differently. The present acrimonious posturing on both sides would yield to a more saner level of debate. But who wants it. It is far easier for our political bosses to pass laws that end up distributing gloom and backwardness in the entiire population.
RE:No sanity in reservation debates
by Prem Kumar on May 08, 2007 10:16 PM Permalink
Awesome Idea Ravi Prakash. Let's create a seperate instituation for dalits, oh wait, how about seperate offices for them to work? let's also throw in seperate district or even better a state and name them Dalististan and seprate them? This is RACISM at it BEST!!!
How can you even think about it for a minute? All these affirmative action are to make everyone feel equal not to alienate the societies further. Agreed that corrupt politicians are using it for political milegae but that doesn't make the reservation or affirmative action bad! Punish the corrupt politicians who are taking advantage but not the good policiies.
Everyone claiming that they don't need reservation, have they lived under oppression in a village for a day? Have they faced the humilitation and suppression these castes faced?
Please don't base your opinion by just seeing your next door OBC neighbor living in luxury to all Dalits/OBCs living in remote villages. Reservation is only for those who live in remote parts without proper eduction and support by the government - This is course correction. Creamy layers should be left out but these communities should benefit.
Also, reservation should be based in ECONOMY only but that can happen after few decades only; untill then, we have to follow current parts as things can't happen overnight in a country of one billion.
One FINAL question: Whoever opposed reservation, are they equally strongly against any caste based alientation? Are you sure you will sit next to a Dalit or tribal in a hotel or theatre? Will your parents allow a Dalit into your kitchen just how your rich neighbor is allowed? ASK your HEART!
Eliminate castes feeling and Reservation will automatically change! Eliminating RESERVATION will NOT eliminate Caste feelings in India. This is reality! First clean up your heart and your surrondings on caste feeling before fighting reservation!
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Amit Shesh on May 08, 2007 11:36 PM Permalink
Which OVERNIGHT are you talking about? 50 years is overnight? Why does the government never have the courage to verify through census about who is benefiting from reservations? I have seen my fellow classmates while away their time and scoring 50% and getting into good colleges because they were reserved. So don't cry me a river about how reservation is really going to those who deserve it. And such cases are NOT in minority (ask yourself if you would refuse a seat out of morality)
Well, of course, 50 years is less when compared to 1000 years of caste-based society. India is progressing a bit only now and they under-previlaged are only coming to compete just now. It will take few more decades to create fair-playing ground.
Again, you simply base your whole argument from what less you saw. Some classmate of yours from creamy layer got seat and you claim the entire reservation is wrong - So many other derserving poor villager also gets in but you just don't see it. Eliminate creamy layer and you will see the real benefits of reservation.
I am totally up for new census which I hope will get more consensus among different sections. I will agree is the census suggests otherwise, will you?
RE:No sanity in reservation debates
by Amit Shesh on May 08, 2007 11:33 PM Permalink
Very nice Mr. Prem Kumar, except the current form of reservation is nothing like what you are saying. A person asking for reserved quota seat is NEVER asked where he/she is from (which remote village) or how much do they earn. That PROVES that the next door rich OBC ends up profiting from these reservations, not the truly oppressed in the remote villages.
Yes, my heart says I will treat everybody as my equal. However if I am deprived again and again of what I deserve simply because of my caste and on the basis of someone else's caste, is that policy really eradicating caste divisions or enhancing it? Sure, I feel for all those oppressed and support reservations based on economy. But all of us SEE who really gets profited by reservation. And the author has a point, you simply cannot make policies based on data that is 70 years old, carried out under British rule!
I'm all for eliminating castes feeling. Are you? It seems you only have hatred for those who oppose reservation and don't really want to understand why they oppose it. Eliminating reservation will not eliminate caste feelings, but maintaining useless politically motivated reservations will not eliminate it either!!
RE:No sanity in reservation debates
by Prem Kumar on May 08, 2007 11:42 PM Permalink
Dear Amit,
Point is Simple. You say current system is not working and creamy layer gets it - Agreed! As I mentioned before, I am all for eliminating creamy layer and bringing economically backward OC as well into reservation.
Make ths system work, not scrap it. Democracy doesn't work in India because politicians are cheating so will you suggest scraping democracy and allow some authoritarian rule? We should fight to make the system work, not simple give up.
You agreed that you have the hate because someone is taking away your position. Is it only because creamy layer does? Will you be alright when you loose your seat to a poor villager?
We have to sacrifice for the social justice to prevail in India - I have. I belonged to so-called FC and I cudn get in with merit however I am still supporting it because I have seen with my own eyes how reservation helps.
I have no Hate for anti-reservation folks but only trying to make them understand just like how my friend made me understand the real issues.
I congratulate that you are all up for eliminating castes. I am already doing my small bit!
RE:No sanity in reservation debates
by Ya Mustafa on May 08, 2007 07:31 PM Permalink
Institutions for dalits only! Hey this is racism in all its glory and nothing else. Remember the 'Jim Crow' laws promulgated & practiced in America till recently? They were just that . Seperate schools, seperate neighborhoods,seperate resturants , seperate facilities & seperate everything for blacks in the USA ,till it was thrown out in court in 1954. So now the RSS has come our with its trump card. Segregation for dalits , starting with schools!! Keep it up guys ! Keep India shining .. um... racially!
RE:No sanity in reservation debates
by Anil Tandale on May 08, 2007 10:01 PM Permalink
those who ruled India from Mohd Bin Khasim onwards cannot claim to be backwards, and having got their home land, shd not hanker after reservations because Christianity and Islam are class-less societies. If segments of Hindus seek rservation, it will make the education and employment more representative. Instead of hairsplitting 1931 census, let us boldly agree for fresh caste based census to give best representation to all deserving.
