I feel sorry for the forward castes who are being discriminated , but you will have to pay for what your ancestors did for millenia ! I am against collective punishment ,but the society is so unequal that affirmative action has to continue for a reasonable period of time .60 years too small a period to offset the imbalance .
The government has to amend the constitution to prevent the 'elite' of the judiciary trampling down up on the aspirations of millions in this country. The parties that do not realise this will be thrown out of power by the peoples of India
Irrespective of my personal opinions which support only a merit based system , I would like to see reservation continuing to prevent inequality and turmoil.
Every 20 years there should be a review of the mechanism of reservation and the aim should be to bring down the reservation percentage along with the guideline . If we do not achieve social equality in the next 200 years we would be considered a failed state in making conditions better for our people ,both the forward castes and backward classes
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by Mohan Raj on Mar 30, 2007 01:37 PM Permalink
Hey Sameek , I will not get into useless personal fights here. You can call me whatever you want .
So if I got my good skills because I got admission because of quota doesnt it mean that the system is working? On the contrary would you change your mind if I told you that I was a Tamil Brahmin ? Criticise what I say , do not get into personal attacks ! It reveals only your puerile mind set .
So do you think open merit system will bring equality ? The status quo will only perpetuate inequality ! Every society has its own pecking order and unfortunately in India the whole rich/poor inequality is mapped to caste . So affirmative action has to be caste based and has to continue . I see most of the bulletin board is anti-reservation ,that reveals the extent to which forward castes have access to better resources and try to stifle the other voices . When will we hear the voices of the poor folks/OBCs of this nation on this board ?
And you gherao tactics wont work against me, my word is my weapon !
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 12:10 PM Permalink
rich/poor mapped to caste? I can't agree NOW (may be 60 years earlier, this true)... low caste OBCs are among the richest in the country.
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by rajagopalan nadimuthu on Mar 31, 2007 07:05 PM Permalink
Good.why not exclude creamy layer among the BC & Scs from the purview of reservation.By this more chances flow to the really BC & Scs .Is it not ? That is what every one pleads for . But our T.N Politicians want them to remain them as they are in the larger /personal interest of their own kith and Kin. Though they advocate the Tamil medium in all institutions including medical & engineering and want to shut openings totally,they are giving best education to their wards in the elite institutions and pack them off to places like States or incarnate them as second in command to ascend their throne after their exit to prosper further. Raj
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by Neo on Mar 30, 2007 01:22 PM Permalink
Dont feel sorry for forward castes. In its current format, it is only Laloo and Paswans vagabond sons and daughters who are going to benifit from this reservation. If the rich amongst the so called OBCs are allowed to get these benifits, then nothing will go to the Poor of this country. You are living in an utopian world!
By the way, a kid today if he has to suffer because of something that was done by his or her ancestors, then the basic Fundamental Rights of a citizen is violated! Then why should one have a constitution and say we are a Democracy? Discrimination by color, creed, sex is punishable offence... I hope some one drags these MPs of India to the International Human Rights commission! Denying an education to a kid with merit, just because he is a Brahmin or an upper caste is PURE RACISM!
RE:[object]
by Mohan Raj on Mar 30, 2007 01:58 PM Permalink
I concur with your opinions . But dont you think the racist caste system perpetuated for millenia has relegated so many millions to the fringe of the society ?
How would you uplift them without trampling on the fundamental rights of other citizens ? That is a question I am not qualified to answer
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by jitendra Tiwari on Mar 30, 2007 01:32 PM Permalink
mr raj, u r lucky that u born with backward class mark on your head.
But do u think that mark will make u a good Engg or maneger or Doc. No,because it became your habbit to take every things from cota,and cota is useless thing.it is making our society useless and creating imbalance.This imbalance will be very dangerous for our country and u will see this in your life.
RE:[object]
by Mohan Raj on Mar 30, 2007 01:45 PM Permalink
Mr.Tiwari ,I would like to state that I have not availed of the quota system for any of my accomplishments,though my Dad did make use of it for doing his diploma . I would have been tilling fields in a remote village in Tamil Nadu if my Dad had not got that seat and he would not have been able to go to school on a regular basis if the government of the day had not provided him mid day meals in school. The push that my Dad was given thru this affirmative action has made me come up to this status.
And for your information I am a project manager in the country's #1 software company and I have been solely promoted to this position based on my merit. But I owe everything to that single act of affirmative action that my Dad received.
Unless this society becomes a level playing field ,affirmative action aka reservation should continue.
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by Neo on Mar 30, 2007 01:52 PM Permalink
Your dad was poor and he got this affirmative action. It was the correct thing. All that we say is this!
1) Give maximum weightage to Poverty and not to the caste. If the kids parents have enough money to give him a good education, and yet he is a vagabond, then such a kid does not deserve reservation.
2) Poverty affects everybody. If the kid is a poor Brahmin, is it his or her fault that he or she was born one? How does this kids poverty not compare in the same way as yours or your parents? Even such kids should get access to same reservation.
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by always_right on Mar 30, 2007 01:58 PM Permalink
Just a simple question, the villege you belog has only OBCs? Don't you think all the forward caste people from your villege should have got the same opportunity as your father got? Do they not need similar affirmative action?
RE:RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by Mohan Raj on Mar 30, 2007 02:13 PM Permalink
Yes My village had a sprinkling of FCs among a plethora of OBCs and SC/ST . The FCs owned most of the lands and they were economically well off and their children studied in the best schools in the district .How could my Dad studying in the village school ,where no FC children studied ,compete with them without affirmative actions?There was also one priest family that took care of all our religious needs . But they catered to more than 25 villages around the area . They were better placed economically because of this . The demographics of my village are a microcosmic sample of the Indian nation .
The rich/poor divide is mapped to the caste system in this country with a few notable exceptions.
But I agree with you , if that Iyer(Priest) was not rich his son should also deserve the same facilities as my dad .
RE:RE:RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by always_right on Mar 30, 2007 02:25 PM Permalink
so basically its a problem related to providing good basic education and not giving reservation in higher education and jobs!! It has nothing to do with your caste, though it may be common that lower caste people are generally poor, but the problem is not their caste. What we need is the awareness among the backward people (to whatever caste they belong to) to go for better education and its govt's duty to provide best of the facilities in rural india, instead of irrespective of the quality of the human resources, allow non deserving candidates the seat which requires some basic quality. I fail to understand the logic
RE:No Alternative but to continue with affirmative actions
by prakash iyer on Mar 30, 2007 01:44 PM Permalink
Hey Mohan Raj
Good observation but try to understand one thing thi quota system is not goingto change the fate of upper caste they almost very small percentage but majority of those are very well educated and they have enough money to go abroad and study well or foreign university.again their kids will be more qualified than these people and again they will rule the society even with minority of the population.
coz they know to change them according to the situaiton not like others..thats why still they are in all the positions.consider if indian govt reserver all the seats still they will rule how do you know ???
with in that time all the govt offices will eb privatised and MNC will recruit only proper qualified people and again these SC/ST will be in trouble..
just think earlier so many govt jobs so FC controlled now its more MNC still they are the most..and after some years fully MNC's so they will after a stage govt will stop putting pressure for reservation coz it will be like trade unions in india...just like calcutta nandigram...govt will change the policy automatically they cant stick with this policy after a stage govt will give freedom to select the candidate with high marks so whoever joined the IITS with quota they cant reach that level and they will go back so let them compete if they are more intelligent then let them fight with FC and show Challenge its not possible man....coz Lion is always Lion even if you put it in the cage it king.....dont wory FC compete and show the capacity.we can put quta system on cricket team also and u can enjoy RANJI Worldcup(indian Statecup)ok....
