RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:00 AM Permalink
HEARD OF THE FAST BREEDER REACTOR BUDDY? INDIAN SCIENTISTS ARE UPSET COZ WE ARE ONE OF THE ONLY NATIONS IN THE KNOW OF HOW TO USE THORIUM AS A BREEDER IN REACTORS. AMERICANS WANT TO STOP THIS PROGRAM, COZ IT COULD IMPACT THEIR INDUSTRIES, IF INDIA STARTS SELLING SUCH REACTORS AT AFFORDABLE RATES. BY BRINGING INDIA IN THEIR FOLD, THEY WILL DUMP NUCLEAR FUEL TO US, SO THAT WE DONT PURSUE THE THORIUM OPTION. WE WILL BE DEPENDENT ON THEM ETERNALLY. FYI...INDIA HAS THE SECOND LARGEST RESERVE OF THORIUM
RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Silly on Mar 19, 2007 12:40 AM Permalink
Somehow I can't find the reply button for your post which says " have clearly said, keep all your options open and dont accept anything that is not in Indian interests. Fast breeder reactor project has to go on for us. We need self reliance some day even if it takes 20 years! '.. so I'm writing here.
Do you think India has 20 years time, considering an uncontrolled population growing at 1.38% per annum, economy growing at 9% and industy at 11.3% ?
Just think dude ? Can India survive this growth rate.. we are hungry for power, resources and capital. And US and Europe is our biggest chance to turn the tables around and make up for the 200 yrs we've lost under the british.
Independence is good to have, but only when we are capable to be independent. After investing billions in the AJT program at HAL, Indian Airforce is finally buying the Hawks from Britain, why ? Because we can't wait and see more MIGs dropping from the skies and taking those precious pilots with them.
We will be technologically independent one day, I agree, but there is no harm in doing hand holding with US till we are able to stand up on our own. The IT and BPO industry that we are boasting today is largely due to US.. realise that !
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Sreekanth Nemani on Mar 19, 2007 02:47 AM Permalink
My dear Kutta,
it is a false assumption that india can walk out of it..... Once we have the reactors and the power generation going, the number of things depending on it are humongous. Pulling out at that point will result in a very high cost for us, also we will be affected diplomatically all over the world.... which will in turn affect our other trade.
Puling out might imply sactions by some countries (especially the white countries) too. So, we should not enter this agreement under the false sense of security, that we can easily pull out.
Pulling out will have the same impact that testing nuclear weapons had... so we have to be extremely careful. what's on paper, and how it works in real life internaional politics are two very different things...
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:23 AM Permalink
walk out of what? Shut down all the reactors that are already bought for a few billion dollars coz we dont have uranium anymore?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:16 AM Permalink
Well how does one rate a country? By past experiences right? Today these guys in US will say all this, but tomorrow they will revoke under some clause or pretext. Whats the point in having reactors that depend on Uranium when you have no other alternative but to keep depending on the US led NSG for it? We have to retain Soveriegnity on every sphere of this deal guys. I m repeating this statement. If you view it as suspicion, then so be it. US is not above board on most of its foreign policy decisions. Infact where are the weapons of Mass destruction, the texan warred to dig out in Iraq?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 12:54 AM Permalink
Some facts to think over-
Nuclear arsenals -
USA - 9960 Russia - 7200 UK - 200 France - 350 China - 130 India - 120-200 Pakistan 90 Isreal - 200
What do you think manufacturing 'dozen' nuclear weapons can do ?
Nuclear weapons are not inversely proportional to the ability to hit back after an attack. A country having 500 nukes can also hit a country having thousands and make unacceptable damage.
And INDIA ALREADY HAS THAT ability.
So Forget this fallacy that India is weaker than China nuclear-wise.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 02:52 AM Permalink
As per your knowledge about the nukes possesed by India and pakistan...let me make one thing clear, Pakistan does not have a N-weapon.It is no open secret that Pakistan detonated 3 crude Chinese n-device along with 500 tons of Dynamite to give it the effect of a nuclear test just after Indian test.This was in connivance and full knowledge of Chinese and US leadership. Pakis had to save their face, so they stagemanaged the explosions in a weeks time..do you know how many rounds Shareef made of China, during this one week period.For doing a proper nuclear test to measure all the test data, you need tonnes of equipment, super computers to analyse the data and lots of work in advance...for which you need a minimum period of 2 months, if you have all the things ready.So did pak really test the nuclear device. Explosions are done to test them and study the data collected to supertune your nuclear devises, not to just make a bang. Got the point? Pak realies only on Chinese weapons and watever it has is safe and under US control. So no worries..
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:57 AM Permalink
We dont have 500. We barely have 50 or 60. We need atleast 200 as an arsenal for return attack, assuming losses due to first strike. There is no way we can accept a cap in nuclear bomb production like US wants to see. Sovereignty on all this is ours, and not for US to decide.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:43 AM Permalink
I said this: Our Scientists are right! by Neo on Mar 18, 2007 10:12 PM | Hide replies Americans never think about anything but their self interests. They want a deterrence against China, where they want to use us as a pawn, and secondly they want a country who could buy all their reactors, at the same time bringing our systems under their influence. We need to tread very carefully. We need to retain at all costs, the ability to make a dozen bombs every year, at the same time bring in new plants to produce power.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:40 AM Permalink
Not if U.S changes it policy as usual, and vetoes it in NSG...Russia or US cannot supply unilaterally remember. Things are more complex than the "walk when you want" that you guys are preaching.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 06:04 AM Permalink
Yes, friends, thats true, how can you beleive their bluff, in case anybody who knows about the preparations you need to do before conducting a n.test can tell you how much time you need. It was correctly a ready made chinese Pizza that was used.Thats the reason why USA does not worry as much about Paki (so called Bombs) as it does about N.Korea and Iran. USA Prez has to confirm in the Parliament before giveing any aid to Pakistan that it is not developing any bombs and its nuclear programme is on hold.How does Bush give that undertaking if Paki has possesion of 50 n-devices. It was a pact between USA and China to let Pakistan explode a simple Chinese made n-devise, which should give a big bang. Now how can a country manage to bang not one but 5 (so called) nuclear devices in a weeks time.....Dynamite !!! got it !!!!
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by AK Kanodia on Mar 19, 2007 03:40 AM Permalink
Maikeya ji, We did not loose 200 years under British but gained them. All our technology, railways, airways, hospitals, businesses are from british. Even we are one nation as India because of British. There was no country called India before british. Maybe we would have been united states of India, but who would have united them? Ham apne apne raja-maharajaon ke raaj me kabootar lada rahe hote our vo apne apne haram me aish kar rahe hote.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 01:55 AM Permalink
Fend for yourself and dont depend on anyone in times of need. When your next door neighbour does not help you, how will countries be expected to help. Every country is on its own and fend for itself in critical matters like these.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 03:05 AM Permalink
Well Raj that's news to me.
Even if your assumptions are correct still nevetheless here I was comparing India versus China in particular for nuke weapon arsenals and you can see both balance out each other perfectly.
I would like to add that Pakistan may get a nukes home delivered from China like a pizza !
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Akash on Mar 19, 2007 05:52 AM Permalink
Neo,US is also selling reactors to China,I read it in Noam Chomsky's book of how pentagon as well as Nuclear Reactor Companies from U.S. are involved in China-in fact they are planning to sell the same technology to both the countries and their latest Nuclear Reactor is not a tried and tested thing,the Russians and French are offering a better deal. By the way what's thorium:-)Does it Breed? lol
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 02:54 AM Permalink
An Important fallacy I would like to correct here
Indo US deal does not mean you have to buy nuclear reactors and uranium exclusively from USA.
It means you will get an approval from Nuclear Suppliers Group and you can buy from ANY OF THE 45 countries who are in NSG.
So many countries to choose from - Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, and United States.
So take your pick ! Buy from the country out of this list you trust most. India should have friends I guess.
RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Silly on Mar 19, 2007 12:08 AM Permalink
(Do you mind turning off that caps lock please)
Second largest reserve of Thorium, but a technology still in very nascent stages.It might take atleast 20 yrs for India to bring it to full scale production. I don't think we have that much time in hand. India badly needs power right now to continue the economic progress that we are experiening today.
FYI, US is going to transfer us technology, and not fuel (NSG does that).and BTW, whatever technology India has today, it was initiated by US under its 'Atoms for Peace' program in the 60's. If the world (including NSG) is against us today, it is because India secretly transferred that technology and fuel for nuclear tests in 1974 (under Indira Gandhi's rule).
Most of the Indians don't know our own political misdeeds and hence we keep blaming US for everything. US is our biggest supporter for the nuclear program and we must recognise that.
RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:17 AM Permalink
We already have the technology know how buddy. Kalyani was the first 50MW test breeder reactor in Koodangulam. Commercial reactors could be run by 2012, only if those dumbo babus give the go ahead.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:41 AM Permalink
Im not Anti US. But Im for what our scientists state.
Keep a distance from the US at the same time engaging them, and retain sovereignty on all matters concerning our Nuclear options.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Neo on Mar 19, 2007 12:31 AM Permalink
Well the US intent as far as this goes is not noble silly. I support our scientists when they advice caution against any agreement with US. Read my comment properly below - " Our Scientists are right! by Neo on Mar 18, 2007 10:12 PM"
I have clearly said, keep all your options open and dont accept anything that is not in Indian interests. Fast breeder reactor project has to go on for us. We need self reliance some day even if it takes 20 years!
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Kutta on Mar 19, 2007 12:37 AM Permalink
I agree that we surely dont need anyone to do anything for us. We can build 1000 nuclear reactors by 2050 !
However practically speaking would you wait for 20 to 25 years or rather take the practical path of building up your electricity supplies beforehand.
In 20 years (if it happens right on schedule) thorium tech is mastered commercially, you can switch to that.
Do you have any idea how much population would have increase by then ? and also as if current population is getting electicity 24/7. Even in cities like Noida and delhi there are power cuts forget the hinterland.
You are anti american i can understand, and having a knee jerk reactions to everything when I am not even advocating a US India alliance.
But even if you are gonna buy nuclear fuel from Russia you need permission of Nuclear Supplier Group of which both Russia and USA are members. Some facts that may make you think-
Number of countries having nuclear power plants - 30
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India should worry about Nuclear fuel first
by Raj on Mar 19, 2007 06:02 AM Permalink
Yes, friends, thats true, how can you beleive their bluff, in case anybody who knows about the preparations you need to do before conducting a n.test can tell you how much time you need. It was correctly a ready made chinese Pizza that was used.Thats the reason why USA does not worry as much about Paki (so called Bombs) as it does about N.Korea and Iran. USA Prez has to confirm in the Parliament before giveing any aid to Pakistan that it is not developing any bombs and its nuclear programme is on hold.How does Bush give that undertaking if Paki has possesion of 50 n-devices. It was a pact between USA and China to let Pakistan explode a simple Chinese made n-devise, which should give a big bang. Now how can a country manage to bang not one but 5 (so called) nuclear devices in a weeks time.....Dynamite !!! got it !!!!
