If you believe that "Americans think democracy is like giving a lollipop" then you also have to understand why. Americans love their freedom of choice and their constitutional rights, and they can't understand why those elsewhere wouldn't feel the same if given the chance. If you like lollipops and haven't had one for many years, then you may welcome one as a gift and let your taste buds relish it's sweetness. However, if you've never had a lollipop then you may be hesitant to taste of it when offered. You may even let it fall to the ground and be trampled under foot.
RE:Simplistic on many levels
by on Jan 28, 2007 03:59 AM Permalink
Tracy Atkins,
To the extent that Americans (or anyone else) believe "Democracy is like giving a lollipop", they are *wrong*, irrespective of the rationalizations you suggest.
Emergence of democracy requires the presence of solid institutions like a functioning and stable law and order apparatus, an independent judiciary, a fair legal system and constitution, and a solid corps of civil servants.
It's not enough for Americans to imagine that they're offering someone a chance at the "democracy-lollipop". The chance offered is a farce, unless Americans also take sensible steps to cultivate the said institutions which the Bush Administration has not done.
Indeed, in such cases, a grandstanding "promise of democracy" could easily be a slogan to distract, while you pursue other goals (oil, geopolitical influence etc).
America having badly failed to create institutions needed to sustain democracy, it makes no sense for you to rationalize that the failure is not that of Americans, but that of the people who want to be "hesitant to taste" democracy.
It is simply dishonest to blame the victim for American failures.
RE:Simplistic on many levels
by GOKUL MUTHUSWAMY on Jan 26, 2007 02:23 AM Permalink
would u like a lollipop to be forced on you? wouldnt u like to have it on ur own accord, it may be sweet to u bcoz evrything else is in place for you to enjoy , but for ppl who dont have nehting a theres greater risk of democracy being misused.
RE:Simplistic on many levels
by Variag on Jan 28, 2007 01:07 PM Permalink
Tracy Atkins,
I just took a second look at your posting. I think that T.N. Seshan is quite aware of the thinking you described, which is why he made the "Americans think democracy is like lollipops" statement in the first place !
What you failed to add in your supposed explanation is why Americans ignore the other factors that Seshan mentioned (rule of law, role of minorities etc) as being important in establishing democracy.
I find it very significant (and frankly, amusing) that you ignored precisely the factors Seshan says Americans routinely ignore, and that inspite of having them clearly pointed out !
Is it a good idea to keep repeating your slogans, so utterly indifferent even to what people are saying under your very nose !?
RE:Simplistic on many levels
by Tracy Akins on Jan 26, 2007 02:38 AM Permalink
Yes, Gokul, that is why I say it is simplistic on many levels. The real world is much more complicated, but politicians and presidents don't always understand this.
RE:RE:Simplistic on many levels
by thepolice stewart on Jan 26, 2007 03:10 AM Permalink
Tracy,yes politicians and presidents have their own opinion ,nevertheless they should realize that their decision creates/affects the image of a 300 million people inside and outside their country.policy makers of united states should understand the fact that they are creating a dangerous world by poking the needle on both sides.the world doesnt want this rogue cop to interfere in every aspect.today its afghanistan,iraq....tomorro it will be n.korea,iran...ok understood afghanistan,but why iraq,because its the typical bollwood/hollywood flick,american policy makers are the villian they hire a henchman (saddam H) to finish their enemy (other developing/developed nations) and once the job (like obtaining nuke secrets from iran and passing it on to CIA)is finished by the henchman the hench man is inturn killed.this is what unites staes does,and by USA i dont mean the entire people i mean the policy makers.its time for american to refrain from the apocalyptic super cop image. i have been in united states (iam back to india now)for 7 years and its so pathetic to see 300 million good people brain washed by the media at one go having no idea of what's happening outside theirs.an american visiting outside his country should feel safe. yes,"might is right",but the policy makers shouldnt forget david and goliath. iam not against americans but against their cunning policy makers.....they are the #1 terrorists.
RE:RE:RE:Simplistic on many levels
by lipa dash on Jan 26, 2007 06:25 AM Permalink
hello
america acting as the super cop is understood but there's no point in the hollywood/bollywood theory. please look up saddam's history before deciding him as the henchman. he was the hunted and he met his fate (although in a barbaric way). if america doesn't play the super cop, some other nation will. thats the way it is..there is always a leader and contenders. terrorism can't be dealt as some nation's individual problem..there has to be policing by someone. or it will become the new world order.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Simplistic on many levels
by thepolice stewart on Jan 27, 2007 12:26 AM Permalink
shubra, yes saddam did massacre kurds, he did deserve death for that.but who will get tried for the thousands of iraq's getting killed in iraq everyday,who....USA?.......huh....they will have their exit strategy well planned.
why was saddam executed in a hurry?albeit if you say its a political stunt by the republicans for their 2009 election showdown,the reason is not accepted, its far more than that,......its about real image and the hidden intentions of america. he needed a fair trial not a biased one. why wasnt he tried by international court of justice by UN? why was his 2 lawyers killed in mysterious circumstances? why was the most senior judge removed (biased?) and instead was replaced by a one who had already consumed loads of money.
yes there will be some other nation performing the rogue super cop image butUSA has other intentions which they balance them out with a very well supported media which brain washes million people at one go,not to mention that fact that Gerald ford proved to be a true martyr of his country of his timley death during saddam's execution and the american media who would actually cover the death of a dog clearley diverted their coverage to ford and obscurred saddam execution fearing the coverage would trigger terror attacks but this will showcase brillanly hyped during 2009 elections. please read iran-iraq war spanning 9 years,saddam was a made a friend and later a scapegoat by US,to get nuke secrets from iran and pass it over to them.Also as per US double standard track records there were ulterior motives : 1) US didnt want Iran to be the regional power thats why made made saddam friend. 2) got revenue by selling arms to iraq 3)oil motives and also Mr senior Bush was into oil business..and many more.
its all a symbiotic relationship with a ulterior motive,its not globalization thats happening now its exploitation in the name of globalization that the imperialistic powers are hell bent to continue it in a subtle way.
again iam in opposition of the ruthless slowpoisoning pin-pricking double standard "trigger and vanish " methods of american policy makers and not against the people,as truly they did -giving food from chopper from one side and bombs on the other!
refer my reply to Tracy for those of you who havent read my earlier reply.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Simplistic on many levels
by ratnesh srivastav on Jan 27, 2007 12:42 AM Permalink
just because Bush has and is doing wrong does not mean that one should pardon Saddam. Ask those who lost nead and dear ones because of saddam. Bush must be punished but leaving saddam scot free just because we cannot punish bush is no logic. If we work in this manner then release all terrorists in Indian jails as we cannot catch and punish dawood ibrahim. cool down and remember no perpetrator of crime should be left
RE:RE:Simplistic on many levels
by vatsan on Jan 26, 2007 03:09 AM Permalink
Tracy,yes politicians and presidents have their own opinion ,nevertheless they should realize that their decision creates/affects the image of a 300 million people inside and outside their country.policy makers of united states should understand the fact that they are creating a dangerous world by poking the needle on both sides.the world doesnt want this rogue cop to interfere in every aspect.today its afghanistan,iraq....tomorro it will be n.korea,iran...ok understood afghanistan,but why iraq,because its the typical bollwood/hollywood flick,american policy makers are the villian they hire a henchman (saddam H) to finish their enemy (other developing/developed nations) and once the job (like obtaining nuke secrets from iran and passing it on to CIA)is finished by the henchman the hench man is inturn killed.this is what unites staes does,and by USA i dont mean the entire people i mean the policy makers.its time for american to refrain from the apocalyptic super cop image. i have been in united states (iam back to india now)for 7 years and its so pathetic to see 300 million good people brain washed by the media at one go having no idea of what's happening outside theirs.an american visiting outside his country should feel safe. yes,"might is right",but the policy makers shouldnt forget david and goliath. iam not against americans but against their cunning policy makers.....they are the #1 terrorists.
