Hey, I really do not understand why there is enemity between Hindus and Muslims? I think fundamentally we don't like eachother and this lead to attacking innocent people. I want to understand the fundamental difference from the religion perspective.
RE:why????
by rishi on Feb 22, 2007 02:34 AM Permalink
Himalaya: Nice ID. You are right. There is enimity between Muslims and Hindus by virtue of fundamental religious differences. TBH, THERE IS ENIMITY BETWEEN ISLAM AND EVERY BODY ELSE.
I am not a expert on religions, per se, but I have enough knowledge to start a discussion on this.
Philosophically, Islam and Hindu Dharma are fundamentally opposite.
While Hinduism (includes Jaina, Bouddha, Sikha, Shaiva, Vaishnava and many other Panthas)leaves definition and mode of spirituality and its accomodation to the individual, Islam believes in a all enforcing absolute.
Because of that Hindus are free to choose their concept of divinity and follow a rainbow of philosophical doctrines that cover the entire spectrum of human intellect.
Historically, Islam has grown out of Mohammad's fundamental antipathy and hatred towards Hinduism and other polymorphist philosophies including Zoroastrianism (pre-Islamic Iran).
Mohammad borrowed a lot of philosophical ideas from the Old Testament (Torah for the Jews) and the New Testament but relegated the followers of Christianity and Judaism to SECOND CLASS CITIZENS (aka, Dhimmis).
Dhimmis are given a few rights and are allowed to live like humans.
Hindus (Kafirs) are NOT EVEN CONSIDERED HUMANS and their rights are consired only if they convert to Islam.
Needless to say, the above concept in Islam can be reflected clearly in the behavior of its followers towards Hindus and other belief systems over the past 1400 years
Even though nearly 80% of the Muslims in the world are children of forced converts, of Hindu and Bouddha origin, their new belief system blinds them to their past and sucks them into a eternal hatred for the Kafir. Something that can be remedied only by death or conversion and assures them a place in Jannat (heaven) THAT ALSO IS PRETTY MUCH THE DEFINITION OF JIHAD.
Sadly though, the Muslims of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia and India (80% of the world Muslim population), all refuse to see the reality that their forefathers were also forcibly converted to Islam (a few by rape and murder and most by unbearable taxation , called Jazia).
They insist on treating the Hindus in the same way that their forefathers were treated. And therein lies the irony.
RE:RE:RE:why????
by rishi on Feb 22, 2007 03:01 AM Permalink
Any joint probe will involve ISI participation. That is unacceptable.
The only condition a joint probe can be entertained is when Pakistan hands over Syed Salahuddin, Dawood Ibrahim, Tiger Memon and Hafiz Sheikh to India.
RE:RE:why????
by Morris Modi on Feb 22, 2007 07:57 AM Permalink
Ur mouth spills hatred.No religion spreads hatred. it would have been better if we were all forced muslims that way we would not fighting. poor mughals could not force us hehe idiot grow up. we all wud be muslims if it was a forced religion. stop putting your half knowledge thoughts for spreading hatred.
RE:RE:RE:why????
by apurva on Feb 22, 2007 08:39 PM Permalink
Sunnis and Shias.. all muslims.. not fighting? Modi saab convert ho gaye app.. and now recommending us to be converted?
RE:RE:why????
by Himalaya on Feb 22, 2007 03:14 AM Permalink
Rishi: You too got nice id!! It looks like you are aware of lot of historical facts. But I don't think this is the only reason. The conversion rate of "Hindu to Muslim" is less than "Hindu to Christianity". But we dont have much problem with Christians. Being Hindus as majority in India, I wonder how muslims can treat Hindus as second class citizens. Probably you may be right while talking about JIHAD. JIHAD is something which absolutely doesn't make any sense. Killing people for religion can not be justified at all. But I dont know wheather JIHAD principle came after the prophet??? Dont we have any solution at all to solve this issue?? How about "NO RELIGION" funda??
RE:RE:RE:why????
by rishi on Feb 22, 2007 03:27 AM Permalink
Himalaya: Your "no religion" ideas will have no effect on Islam. It may have effect on Hindus. Will that change anything?
Muslims themselves have to realize that the have to reject the Quran and come out of Islam.
RE:why????
by on Feb 22, 2007 03:13 AM Permalink
Ekam Sad-vipra, Bahudha Vadanti - Rugveda. i.e. There is one Truth, Sages call it by various names. That is the most basic Hindu philosophy. That's why we have been acepting all kinds of religious thoughts (as well as crap) from other religions.
Islam and similar religions belive the only truth is what their prophets said... averything else is crap.
RE:why????
by saurabh kumar on Feb 22, 2007 05:39 AM Permalink
I think the muslims who are loyal to india should be allowed to stay in india. All others should be told to leave the country ASAP
RE:RE:why????
by mohd amul on Feb 22, 2007 06:32 AM Permalink
To my dear Hindu, i respect the religion. I have many friends and to save those friend even i can die. There was no forcible conversion in Islam, islam says clearly its a choice they have to make when presented. As god is an equal opportunity giver. He has given opportunity to Hindus now to rule India and we can see what they are doing. They have spured hatred, trying to destabilize muslim society doing false accusation, selectively targeting muslims and turning once upon a time richest community to poorest. everybody know there is no equal opportunity. I ask a simple question, when earth itself is a a particle of dust in this so big universe, why does god has to take a shape of human to show us the way. We can imagine the power of creator by looking at the universe. Now christianiy , jews and muslims and many european religion all believed the unseen superpower, but seeing god to take the form of a human which is created from a clot is unjustifiable. Human has tendency to worship the rich and powerful as we can see the celebrity culture prevailing and for eg. orthodox hindu who worshiped kings and even filmactress in Tamil Nadu, which is center to hindu civilization. I think to understand each other point of view we should step into each other shoes. then decide. Everyone say that islam is the cruel religion, do you know that more that 25 milllion muslim and 15 million non muslims have been killed by colonial and their desire of dominatin in last 2 centureies. do visit this website. www.harunyahya.com, www.zaytuna.com and listen to Zakir Nayak video in google or you tube. Infact we protected you from those powers all the time. I do accept there were unjust rulers but it happens even today. Muslim are the only who are resisting over ambitious government, it was russia before and america now. If america wished it can easily buy some corrupt politician, fund hindutva and start a fight here which could cripple us. we should be united. Basically we should find the ways to settle our differnce. whats ur say
RE:RE:RE:why????
by rishi on Feb 22, 2007 06:52 AM Permalink
Mohammad: I know Zakir Nayak. He is a wolf in the garb of a sheep. I have seen his propaganda videos. Nice try.
RE:RE:RE:RE:why????
by mohd amul on Feb 22, 2007 08:16 AM Permalink
hey rishi kajoor, u have 80 yrs max of life. You have to justify to whatever superpower you believed. There is no punarjanma, Think over it, time is trickling. Why do you think still islam is fastest growing religion in india and world. You would say birth rate, latest sensus show its contrary to that. any way think over it, about the life after death. If you have the answer who is going to take the account of you then do reply me. You can imagine 100yrs back not many would have known about hinduism, ur greatness in many country. how do you view that
My first impression about you was that you were a moderate. Your tone tells me I was wrong. I dont know what Muslim hatred are you talking about. Inspite of 80% Hindus, I pridely say our first citizen, the President is a Muslim, prime minister a Sikh, Leader of Leading party a Christian, Opposition leader a Hindu. And this is inspite of the centuries of conquer/rule/forced conversion by Muslim Mughals & Christian Colonists. Tell me one Muslim country which does that. Just go 10 generations in your family tree and your ancester must have been a Hindu forcefully converted. Do you think Saudi Arabia will allow conversion of Muslims to any other faith. Forcefully or otherwise.
You want 'Allah' to help you win the Lottery ticket. Fine. Atleast buy the ticket. Work hard & your time will come.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:why????
by apurva on Feb 22, 2007 08:59 PM Permalink
Mohd Amul.
I whole heartedly accept that Mohammad was an enlightened person. So was Jesus. And so were Krishna, Ram, Seven saints... Buddha, Mahavir, Osho, Kabir, many of sufi saints. Again, as Rugveda had declared 6000 years ago... One truth, they all saw it in various dimensions.
Every seed has ability to become a forest... every human has capability to be enlightened.. not that we all do. I easily naturally accept Mohammad and Jesus and Moses enlightened ones... why can't these religions accept that there can be truth expresses & visioned a bit differently than what their prophets saw it.. acceptance of this fact cant make your prophets wrong.
But no... these religions have to convert others to survive.. by hook or by crook... and even where there are 100% of them, they fight among themselves... Catholics & Protestants.. Sunnis and Shias (and other sects of Islam).
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:why????
by Sujata Sawant on Feb 22, 2007 10:08 AM Permalink
First of all, well written Apurva & Rishi.
Mohd Amul, I am happy to see that there are Muslims like you who are atleast willing to debate. I must give you that credit.
I can understand that you being a true Muslim will always justify what Islam has done or is going through. If I were a Muslim, I would do the same. As a Muslim, you are not allowed to question the Quran. That makes it difficult to see the other side of the story. Being a Hindu allows me to question any Hindu ritual, practice etc. This is what allows us Hindus to question RSS, VHP etc. Some other Hindus call it cowardness. That is fine too. We need the right balance of moderates and extremists with the tilt towards the moderates. The moderates assure peace and the extrimists like RSS, VHP ensure that we will not be wiped off the map. It is because of this combination throughout centures that Hinduism has survived. Islam on the contrary produces only a handfult of moderates like Dr.Abdul Kalam and millions of extremists.
Unless the moderate Muslims start excercising control over the extremists, Muslims will not be at peace. And I dont mean this out of hatred but out of goodwill. It really hurts will innocent people die. Look what is happening in Palestine and Israel. Since both have extremist views, destruction is guaranteed. And please for your Allah's sake and my Bhagwan's sake, dont corrupt the young minds. My son is 2.5 years old and he is very innocent. It is upto me to decide whether he will be a moderate or extremist !
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:why????
by Sujata Sawant on Feb 22, 2007 08:10 PM Permalink
Hello Mohd Amul, you missed my point. I am talking about having more moderates than people with extreme views. You are talking about "ur time is trickling and our time is going to come". Your "time" wont come if young minds are filled with hatred. Your "time" will come if they get educated, work hard & take the path of peace. Dont expect miracles from "Allah". Work hard and I am sure you he will give you peace.
Also, I am not questioning Quran. Who am I to do that ? It is upto you to interpret it correctly so that your future generations will be at peace. In your opinion Quran maybe perfect. Is it complete in all respects for humans to live. Does it tell how to grow crops, what medicines to give for illness, does it explain the simple laws of science such as gravity ? Would it have made Internet possible ? By typing in this chat, you have already accepted Science as discovered by other religions. Muslims made great scientific process in the initial period. I wonder what made them dislike it later ?
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:why????
by mohd amul on Feb 23, 2007 08:03 AM Permalink
the hatred is reactionary to what muslims are getting. perhaps indian muslims are tolerating enough. muslims in this world was under dominition now they got over it. wait and see how the new generation will change. to sujatha regarding science, read the quran and science in www.harunyahya.com ofcourse it wont tell, by believing that ur only hardwork can get u is a stupidity. graviation law was defined by droping of an apple and who hasnt seen that, but gods thoght gave it wonder. prophet mohammed has accepted the greatness of jesus and moses
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:why????
by mohd amul on Feb 22, 2007 03:42 PM Permalink
Hi sujatha, its because of our coming generation our hands are tied down. we want to see everyone raised in their best way possible. I think one thing is for sure, muslims have the greatest patience ever witnessed in the history of human kind. there is 360 degree turn, history is manipulated everything is changed. Time gives chance to everyone, ur time is trickling and our time is going to come. raise up against injustice to muslims. asking questions against quran is not uncommon, perhaps there is no line quran which was ever proved wrong. it stands the test of time. do visit website i have mentioned. dont view islam with only ur point of view
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:why????
by mohd amul on Feb 24, 2007 03:25 PM Permalink
india is not a hindu country, hindu contribute less than 50 percent, as sikh christian lingayath, jains, buddist and many more tribes deny they are hindu, i Mean what u say one non muslim group. by the way we dont buy lottery, i donot want easy money. I think i would have been a muslim even if i was a born hindu. why do u think islam is fastest growing religion. who is forcing them now. In india if there would be muslims more and more its better. otherwise we have seen what money and bollywood has done to our hindu sisters.
RE:RE:RE:why????
by on Feb 22, 2007 06:23 AM Permalink
Before we reverse the flow, we have to stop the flow. Still Hindus are being converted to Islam and Christianity and Buddhism(?!). It's an urgent task in front of us to stop that.
Of course RSS & VHPs & BJs have it wrong too. A better way is to serve (Yes serve them) and educate our teens and twenties and adivasis.
I have always been thinking about starting a project of comparing Quran (& Bible) with Hindu philosophy and show them that they have nothing unique...
RE:RE:RE:why????
by rishi on Feb 22, 2007 03:19 AM Permalink
www.faithfreedom.org has nice translation and analysis of Quran by Muslims and non Muslims
RE:RE:why????
by on Feb 22, 2007 05:21 AM Permalink
Apurva Quran 1 Al-Fatiha - Prayer before starting on the right path
001:001-Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful Merciful to whome? Muslims - only to Muslims ; Hindus - "Advesta sarva-bhutanam (Gita-12:13)
001:002-the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds ; Hindu - "Vishnu"
001:004-Day of Judgment ; Hindu - No judgement day but God's reincarnatuions for "Paritranay Sadhunam" (Gita)
001:006-Show us the straight path ; Hindu - Identify the Maya... There is no "one straight" way. Every individual has to find his/her own way... own truth.
001:007-path of those whom you favour, not those who earn Thine anger ; Hindu - "Swabhavastu Pravartate" (Gita) - no anger of god... just the nature of one's action prevails.
RE:RE:RE:why????
by rishi on Feb 22, 2007 05:56 AM Permalink
Apurna: Nice effort to show the contrast between Quran and Hindu scriptures.
The primary issue is that while different Hindu Panths developed over a long time and hence had a long maturity period, the Quran's infallibility makes it a unchangeable military doctrine.
