Many good meaning Hindus and Sikhs come here and seem to profess the humanist qualities in their attempt to search for reason for the unreasonable (case in point, the Jihadi).
Most acts of terrorism that continue beyond a generation or two (unlike Haiti, Ncaragua or other class struggle based violence) are guided by very strong ethnic or religious motivation.
The problem is when Pseudo-secularist people start with a premise that all acts of terror are indicative of a larger social deficiency, they totally overlook the strong influence of bigoted and ABSOLUTIST (thats the operative word) belief systems like Islam.
The result is that inspite of their good intentions (Like MK Gandhi's) to promote a humanist approach, good meaning Hindus/Sikhs you are the first victims of self delusion.
Fortunately, most ineffective pseudo secularists will not be of much damage, but people at leadership level like Gandhi and his type can lead a helpless population to absolute disasters (like the Hindus of Noakhali in sept 1946)
So get real and be a realist. (read the entire Quran). See for yourself what we all (including the poor Muslim) are dealing with.
AND IF YOU ARE A TRUE HUMANIST, HELP THE MUSLIMS COME OUT OF ISLAM.
RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Vikas on Feb 20, 2007 08:07 AM Permalink
Its beyond point debating with such nut cases as yourself with half cooked knowldege and crap interpretations
RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 08:21 AM Permalink
try it still..you will be surprised how cooked my knowledge is...better even do your own research...
RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Common Man on Feb 20, 2007 10:47 AM Permalink
Thank you for the message. You have done your homework well. I myself have done some studies on Islam. I have read portions of Koran too. You are absolutely right.
Apart from absolutism, exclusivism of Islam is also another big problem. Either you are a devout Muslim or you are a Kafir. It treats people like binary values - true or false, nothing in between. Christianity is also to some extent exlcusivist. The path shown by Jesus is the ONLY right path!
The scriptures of almost all major religions - including Hinduism - are dogmatic and draconian in nature. Read Manu Smriti and you will feel ashamed of being a Hindu. The point is not whether a particular religion is liberal or otherwise. The point is whether the adherents of a particular religion can reinvent and reform their religion. The point is whether their society and culture can come out of the vice like grip of the religion and grow beyond that. That is the real test.
Both Hindus and Christians have reformed and grown beyond the narrow bounds - as defined in the scriptures - of their respective religions. Muslims need to repeat that thing. But the basic problem is that Islam, by definition, does not allow any change. It is immutable, unchangeable. Talk about change you become a Kafir - a heretic.
You have very correctly pointed out that the Muslims need to be saved from Islam.
RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Zubair on Feb 20, 2007 08:28 AM Permalink
People like rishi, dont waste opportunity to inject their venom. Th etopic is blast/fire in the train, resulting many deaths & this fellow is taking his own course, with nothing on his head other than some ideas. Lets be practical & feel pain for those who died & try to stand together to fight such elements.
Any how....I know rishi cant be sit properly after having my views, now let me talk in his language..with apology from others. For Rishi Only. You seems to be a member of RSS or allies. I think RSS is behind the blast in the train, like they were in Godhra. They dont care to kill hindus even to spread hatred towards mulsim or even other religon. Like wise 9/11....USA blamed Osama for blast but still his name didnt appeared in FBI most wanted list for trade centre blast. It is RSS behind the blasts, they have learned from godhra fire in the train, there fore they have used the similar device this time, totally new for security agencies. This device was meant to spread fire, RSS & party knew this fact like any other people. Still it is not proved who was behind Godhra & iam sure it will never be proved for Samjhota express case too.
RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 08:36 AM Permalink
Zubair Ahmed: Dont throw ur Quranic ideals on me and judge me using the hateful standards of Islam. take it easy.
RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Zubair on Feb 20, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
I will be wasting my time if i say something to you. As religon doesnt need your say/suggestion, it is complete in all regards & respect, however its up to people to read half, nothing or full & come out with their intelligent opinions. If you say, you dont require "hateful standards of islam", altough i dont agree with you t all but can you give the lovable standards of rishi?? am not asking the standards of other religon coz i know you also ignorant in that.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by rishi on Feb 20, 2007 09:09 AM Permalink
Dear Zubair: Well..thats your choice my friend...go in peace...as a Muslim (pardon me if you are not one), you know very well what I am talking about.
RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Ranga Krishnan on Feb 20, 2007 10:36 AM Permalink
Hello Zubir, You are absolutely wrong. Can you cite a few instances where Hidus are fighting among themselves in the name of religion? For a True Hindu, Nation first and Religion second. No Hindu will ever forced to die in the name of religion. It is highly idiotic if some one says he will die for the sack of religion. If one by one all die then where will be that religion? May be in text books and museum
Even after thousands of years of colonial rule and foreign invasion by Arabs and Christians Hinduism is intact and spared all over the world. I am sure that what was predicted by our ancestors are the story of the day. This century will lead lot of conflicts between Christians and Muslims, which is already open in many parts of the world and in some cases between Muslims and Muslims and by the end of the century only Two countries %u2013 India And China %u2013 Non Christian and Non Muslim-will remain as super power.
Don%u2019t talk about RSS or VHP. History speaks about Muslim Rulers. For the sack of power father killing son and son killing father and brother killing brother are quite common among the Muslim rulers. The poor kids of your Prophet Mohamed also not an exception.
Now in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Palatine, Indonesia and last but not the least J&K Bomb blasts are the daily news. Who are the perpetrators and who are the victims? All are Muslims.More number of Muslims died in Iraq and Afghanistan in Bomb blasts than by US bombings.
Who invaded Kwait and killed innocent Muslims? Who are victims of Iran and Iraq war? Who killed them? So Killing and dying is the history of the followers of Islam but not the followers of Hinduism.
RE:RE:RE:Islam and the self deluding humanists
by Neeraj Kumar on Feb 20, 2007 10:29 AM Permalink
I have FINAL SOLUTION to Terrorism. Convert All Indian Subcontinent Muslims to Hinduism (Who were once all Hindus) and there will no Terrorism, i write this word.
