RE:foreign Hand
by VinayBabu Ravuri on Feb 19, 2007 01:28 AM Permalink
Nice analysis Venugopal... Mulayam's literacy goes so far that his message has to be decoded...
RE:RE:foreign Hand
by indianpatriot on Feb 19, 2007 08:50 AM Permalink
Akash ,brilliant analysis...Only if you culd have written in Paragraphs it would be easy to read..I am sorry as an indian if anyone has hurt u...It is the collective responsibility of the entire nation to make sure that every state progresses. If today UP is not progressing then it is a shame not just for UP but entire India.... When will our countrymen realize this?
RE:foreign Hand
by Akash on Feb 18, 2007 11:52 PM Permalink
First of all, it's not I did not born in UP, it's I wasn't born in UP, so there is a serious grammatical error made by a non-UP person in the first place. Secondly it's not people from UP who blame everything other than one's own inability but certain individuals from all corners of the world who have this habit. I am from UP and am proud of the fact that I have been born and brought up in UP.Better learn to respect people from other states of the same country you belong to,afterall it is a quasi-federal structure and all states are considered equal, the same does not apply to the politicians in a democratic setup somehow. If you cannot respect your own countrymen, why should people from UP respect people from other states? fortunately I was born in UP and not to your native place.
RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Setu Madhavan on Feb 19, 2007 12:50 AM Permalink
Akash, What exactly about UP makes you so proud? Could you also explain why UP and Bihar continue to be in the list of backward states of India (even though Rajasthan and MP - other members of the infamous BIMARU states - have been making great strides towards development lately)? UP is blessed with abundant fertile landmass (a big percentage of several agricultural produce of the nation comes from UP), hardy people (UP has more people than Pakistan. Only 5 countries - India included - have more people than the state of UP), rich culture and history, wonderful historic marvels (Taj Mahal is the most renowned building in the world yet more tourists visit DisneyLand in a day than visit Taj Mahal in a year!), minerals, livestock (almost 80% of the country's livestock)
I have met some very smart / enterprising / intelligent folks from UP and Bihar and will not tar them all with the same brush. However it does rankle that UP and Bihar are consistently at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to statewise breakdown of Human Deveopment Indices. The dismal performance of UP rankles even more because UP is so blessed by nature. So what gives?
Under ideal conditions, UP should undoubtedly be the powerhouse fueling India's growth in all spheres. It has tremendous political clout too - it has produced more MPs & PMs than any other state. Unfortunately given its unwieldly population and deplorable development figures it (along with Bihar) have become large millstones that weigh the collective progress of other states.
Viewed in isolation and compared with the development indices of countries of the world - UP would be at the very bottom of the list of nations - worse than sub-saharan Africa. Kerala, on the other hand, would be at the very top, going head to head with Western Europe.
I am not castigating the people of UP entirely for where UP is today, but something is seriously wrong with this picture. What exactly? Pervasive corruption? Any other suggestions, Akash? Further, what is the way out?
RE:RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Akash on Feb 19, 2007 01:44 AM Permalink
Yes Setu Madhavan, I would be rather glad to respond to this question of yours. First of all if u look at the precedents that led to it's downfall,you will be able to put all the pieces of the puzzle together and get a better picture. United Provinces as Uttar Pradesh was called at the time of Independence was considered amongst the best states- second in ranking from the top in India. The Problem started much later when most of the taxpayers money from UP started flowing to other states. UP has given several Prime Ministers to India- the entire Nehru Family and Atal Behari Vajpayee being the most prominent of those so it's not just about Mulayam and Mayawati; when these politicians pre-1990 were winning elections in UP, they used to disappear altogether only to show their faces in the next elections.The three biggest downslides in UP were the Emergency,Mandal and the Mandir episodes. This might raise quite a number of brows but even though all these episodes had a impact on India as a whole, they had a tremendous impact on UP in particular. With emergency came corruption, half of the bureaucrats started using public funds to gain political support in the most politically active state...this flowed down to other sectors and this was the time when licence raj was at its height. Still things were't that bad. Later came Mandal and even though it might or might not have had a positive effect on other parts of the country,it had an adverse impact in UP. It also led to the rise of Mulayam who uses OBC vote bank and Mayawati who uses SC/ST vote bank in this state, this was coupled by BJP which all of a sudden became a mouthpiece of hardcore upper caste politics and Congress found a new vote bank-Minorities and also the Intellectuals who were left few in number as many had fled the state and even the country as soon as the conditions started becoming dismal.Every party promised to protect a certain section of society turning it into a feudal system rather than a democratic setup. Then the Mandir issue, well the ones who came to do the job were not from UP, but Lord Ram was born here then they had to come, break Babri which led to massive riots and massive encampments of various sections of society. It is this state now in which casteism and communalism is at its worst, thanks to the politicals experiments of the big-wig politicians. The Vaccum was never filled. U have to choose between the Criminal and a Corrupt Minister which one do you choose? Well you choose the Corrupt one first so that he can extort money as bribes and can live on public funds, then u want to get rid of him/her but u have no option, so u vote for the Criminal.He then kills you and takes your house and all your money away. The Intellectuals have already left the state in dispair,many of them are in different states or even in different countries of the world.Investement doesn't take place here cause' who wants to mess with the Corrupt and the Criminals? So nothing on that side. Left are the still sane people from all classes and sections of society who want to leave this entire fiasco and lead a normal life which they can't over here so for them the only option is leave the state. If BJP or Congress wins the next elections, like always they wont do anything. The people of UP thought of new options, wanted new players who made big promises which happened to be a pack of lies, so for politicians and politics as a whole, this is just a landscape from where they enter big Politics at the centre, they don't need to do anything for this state, afterall no one else would do either.And when a guy from UP, might be a student, a labourer,a businessman or an intellectual wants to leave this feudal system then he is a Bhaiyya elsewhere only to be smashed up. It was our money that the politicians stole and invested elsewhere and when a person from UP or Bihar goes to these very places, kaboom. students from UP enter a Pune station, smashed up by Shiv Sainiks, labourers from Bihar working in Assam gunned down. and then u hear the great talk from people from the rest of the country about UP. How would it feel to others if I say that the British entered through Bengal and Madras because people over there(Mir Jaffer) were so corrupt they could'nt give up the idea of taking a few bribes by some foreign trading comany and sell their own country? At least people of Awadh fought, these people who abuse people from UP as Bhaiyyas and Behenjis might be knowing of Hazrat Mahal, if not Rani of Jhansi, Bundelkhand. might have heard of that. if not Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandhi,Rajiv Gandhi,Atal Behari Vajpayee-they might have heard these names. But then who cares? No one. One who is not from UP can talk big, one person once said why don't you stand in elections in the movie Yuva...come over here stand and get killed before elections take place or get killed after the elections so that bi-elections take place or better leave the state, be called a Bhaiyya and get smashed up elsewhere.So we are immigrants in our own country, for marathas,for tamils and for the rest. Immigration means when a person goes to another country, EU,US and all the immigration debate but in India, a person from a State of the Union of India is considered an immigrant if he goes to another state.And if he stays here, makes an honest living, a person comes with a gun in his hand and to hell with the living part.BUT I am still proud of my state cause' it is my home.
RE:RE:RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Setu Madhavan on Feb 19, 2007 02:35 AM Permalink
Akash, Thank you for the very honest and straightforward views. I agree with most of it (I thought AB Vajpayee is from Gwalior in MP - not that it has anything to do with the point under discussion).
I have known folks from UP and Bihar (that I met outside these states) to be exceedingly hard working and straightforward - simpletons even. I agree with you that the culture of corruption and criminalisation of politics plunges them into the vortex of hopelessness. I still believe that UP and Bihar can reclaim their pride of place in India and the world if the central government makes a conscious decision to create environment conducive to investment (giving tax rebates, declaring SEZs), clamp down on lawlessness along with a calibrated approach to growing these states (on the lines of 5 year plans) and making heavy central government investments on education and industry here.
As for being bullied and mistreated by countrymen elsewhere - that is unpardonable. Any Indian making an honset living elsewhere shouldnt be victimised. (In the 60s Shiv Sena had rioted against South Indians - 'Lungiwallas' as Bal Thackeray derided them - Keralites were Thackeray's biggest target then. "Bhaiyyas" are his target now. Strangely enough Thackeray seems to have developed a liking for (Hindu) Keralites and Tamilians lately! "They are our boys" he once said referring to LTTE Tamil tigers of Srilanka. Politicians stoke regional passions as it suits them.)
I hope the people of UP and Bihar can turn things around, much like Singapore turned itself around from an underdeveloped wasteland to what it is today - all in a matter of few decades. The nation can not progress after ignoring UP and Bihar.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Chaloo Prasad Yadav on Feb 19, 2007 07:55 AM Permalink
What thakerey did wasnyt wrong either.....He had to stop ppl from claiming liocal jobs in banks ....Many ppl got jobs in mumbai just becpz their Boss was a north indian or south indian and had no other qualification .
The north indians were beaten up becoz they were giveing entrance exam meant for Mahafrashtra and gujarat candidates,who saly didnt go to Bihar to sit for exam...
accept it man....NO ONE LIKES MIGRATION AND NO ONE LIKES LOCAL JOBS TO GO TO MIGRANTS JUST BECOZ THEY HAVE A BOSS OF THEIR COMMUNITY
RE:RE:foreign Hand
by on Feb 19, 2007 12:11 AM Permalink
i highly regard an apolitical view of this proudian UP like me. Reading the views here i felt there are some who went to take this an opportunity to go sluggish, making it personalised and so biased. There is nothing wrong in statement in itself by sensing it frm the perspective it was made, specially if u being habitual to UP pols, though it looked like in first instance, a catch of headline.
RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Murali Amara on Feb 19, 2007 01:42 AM Permalink
well alls not pathetic abt UP.. the kidnapping industry is flourishing thr. if the govt thr can leagalise it thn they can get those kidnappers under the income tax ambit. tht wud make UP alive n kickin in a year... UP wud thn be the new economic superpower in India.. people will neva dare to present kerala as an example thn.
n also the people thr are wise enuff to understand tht more kids = more earning whn they grow up.. even in this day n age its - hum do hamaare dozen.
am sorry if i offended anyone from UP. am really sorry to hav typed all this. but all my brothers from UP, i seriously believe tht UP n Bihar need to do a lot (i mean A LOT) of catching up to do to b considered on par with other struggling states like Orissa n WB. take one step at a time n reach the top. both the states are blessed with a very fertile land n loads of minerals, thn whts holding u back. dont blame the politicians. politicians are only as good as the people they are ruling. people get the leaders they deserve.
RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Chaloo Prasad Yadav on Feb 19, 2007 12:00 AM Permalink
Man...admit it UP and BIHAR are the worst states....All up biharis go toother states for jobs and u know...Ek Bhaiyya jaata hai or 40 logo ko gaon se bulata hai !!
And almost all of UP -biharis have fake degrees( BIharis protested against ban on copying) ,dont follow traffic rules, spit PAAN and make city dirty .....never stand in queues and jump queues almsot all the time...and ppl with corruption and lawlessness in their viens(Maybe not all up biharis...but most of them are typical)
No wonder Up biharis get beaten up in Mumbai,TN and South ..
RE:RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Akash on Feb 19, 2007 12:11 AM Permalink
yes Chaloo jee, but somehow half of the sugar u guys swallow comes from UP, u might not be knowing that and if Mumbai,TN and South have so much problems why shouldnt they join LTTE cardre's cause' they supported in the assasination of their own country's Prime Minister, they should join LTTE and go on the kill and find every guy from UP and kill them or else UP declares itself independent of India no one would have problem with that then? huh? U will get rid of Bhaiyyas, Bhaiyyas will be free from your nonsense? How about it? If the map of India does not have UP and Bihar how would you like it? we wont follow traffic rules here, we will copy and spit paan but at least you wouldn't have to associate with us. If u love the map of India then learn to respect the Bhaiyyas, the Bhaiyyas might have corruption in their veins but they are proud to be Indians including me and have no problems with those from Mumbai,TN or South and I heard statements like u just made time and again, it is our Awadhi tehzeeb , the Ganga-Jumni Tehzeeb which people like u lack.In fact it is people like u who say jai Maharashtra and Jai Bangal before JAI HIND but Bhaiyyas say JAI HIND only nothing added or subtracted to that
RE:RE:RE:RE:foreign Hand
by Sharath Shetty on Feb 19, 2007 01:54 AM Permalink
Hi Akash , No Body is blaming UP ok , And Let me Get it Right. Everybody wants a change in UP . Proper Political Process a System where no Corruption , Very Good development. And No politics in Colleges. And please Never Blame Mumbai ok , Let me tell you one thing Mumbai alone Gives 40 percent of the India's Income Tax Fund where in 30 Percent of the Company is Spent by UP . Tell me where is Our money Gone
