RE:RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Unsung Humanist on Feb 28, 2007 01:12 AM Permalink
Layman, any truth that does not conform to your narrow reading of modernity is trash. I wonder how you profess with such confidence your command over 'modernity." Gimme a break! A muslim attempts to define, defend the scientific spirit in his holy book, and you rush to defile him. You cite a dirty Muslim street to prove your point. Of course, with an acutely prejudiced mind as yours, I dont expect your single track mental makeup to go beyond that. By your same logic, should you defile the traffic rulebook everytime there is an accident. Should I blame the Hindu holy texts for the poverty stricken, unbearably dirty slums of perfectly Hindu religionists. I wouldnt stoop down to associate religion with that. Honestly, how many events of conversions have been enlisted by you since independence. Your ilk blamed the christians for launching a countrywide conversion drive. But their numbers remain the same. (Of course, I now run the risk of getting into Muslim numbers, another stereotype often quoted by the Hindu Right.)
RE:RE:RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Secular Indian on Feb 28, 2007 03:43 AM Permalink
Layman was only responding in kind to the drivel posted by the original poster. He was simply replying in kind, since when has that become crime.
Yes one should defile the traffic book if there is an accident and it can be proven that it was the book that needs to be fixed because it contains the wrong advice.
Yes you can blame the Manu smriti for some of the poverty and treatment of "lower" castes. So, what is your point. Hinduism encourages that sort of thing they are the first to attack their own primitive practices, a sampling of the posts (small sample set but representative of at least urban Indian population) will bear testimony to my claims.
For conversion you only have to look at Pakistan where the glories of (unfettered) Islamic practice can be observed first hand. From a population of 15% at independence in 60 year its down to 1.5%. Again please quote facts not some wishy/washy opinion.
RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by anoop shukla on Feb 27, 2007 05:48 PM Permalink
Its a shame. Shame that people who are supposed to be educated talk the way they do.
I fail to understand how religion got bigger than humanity.
Its weird that people get ready to spill blood on something that they "believe" to be true.
Even animals dont kill without a reason.. and we humans have become worse.. so much for the most gifted of living beings on this planet.
And to justify killings in the name of god, jihad, religion is loathful.
RE:RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Name on Feb 27, 2007 06:39 PM Permalink
Jihad is not about killing people. rest what u wrote I agree to it. We are human at first.
RE:RE:RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Secular Indian on Feb 28, 2007 08:52 AM Permalink
Oh, then every time Osama Bin Laden and his sidekick call for Jihad, whats that supposed to mean ? No amount of word games is going to change the meaning and intent of Jihad as mentioned and clearly explained in the Koran. This nonsense about Jihad being some sort of internal struggle is the standard Muslim apologists dodging/deflecting tactic. It's been over used and people have seen through it, please come up with something new.
RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Perv Sharma on Feb 28, 2007 05:10 AM Permalink
Aurangzeb's Islam & Idol Worship
Dear get ur facts right. Many people are writing here and there that Modern Civilisation is a product of Judeo-Christian tradition. This is totally false. In fact, modern philosophy and science are a delayed fruition of the tree that was ancient India or in other words Hinduism. On the other hand, Semitic religions did everything to suppress and destroy the development of knowledge especially science. In fact, if any thing is the final product of the Judeo-Christian tradition i.e. the Religion of Abraham, it is the Islamic fundamentalism. Truth was considered a subject of investigation, not of belief. Every cause has an effect and this effect becomes a cause or another effect. The Universe (samsara) is but total of the complex system of causes and effects flowing in time. Hindu religion encouraged people to know and experience God rather than to believe Him. Because of this investigative temper, India was ahead of all other nations in science and mathematics till her subjugation by Muslim conquest in the 12th century. On the other hand, Jewish religion was based on the faith that only their God is real and all others false. Hence it was not only belief in one God but it was also a belief in correctness of only one religion. Christians also adopted the same attitude and Islam also asserted the same. Fighting the nonbeliever was considered a prime duty of the believers. The words of the God as revealed to the Prophet is final and anything contradicting them has to be destroyed. This gave the concept of heresy. Much later , Jesus Christ started his religion. Jesus was very much like an Indian ascetic. Like Hindu saints, he followed renunciation and practised celibacy, and preached non-violence. It is claimed that he had been to India and had received spiritual training in Indian tradition. Whatever be the fact, we find that many of the sayings and parables of Jesus, Pythagoras and the Upanishads are common. When Christianity was taking shape, that part of the world was inhabited by Hindus as well. When they converted to Christianity, they introduced many things to this new religion e.g. folding hands in Indian style whenever praying to God; ringing typical Indian style bells in the churches; introduction of a circular solar halo round the picture of Jesus etc. Practice of celibacy, renunciation of material life by the monks and asceticism adopted by Christian saints were Hindu influence on Christianity, because they are not found in other Semitic religions. But the vast majority of people who initially accepted Christianity were Jews. Therefore, they brought in with them the Old Testament(the Jewish scripture) and most of the beliefs and practices of the Jews. Therefore after the death of Jesus, Christians now believed , as the Jews did, that only theirs' is the right religion and only theirs' is the true God. Sorcery, miracle, witchcraft, mysticism, idol-worship, etc. are satanic acts and people accused to be involved in them would be killed. Raising any doubt or suggesting modification in religion was termed heresy, punishable with death. Fighting the non-Christians to convert or eliminate them was considered religious duty. This new religion was very anti-science, because science did not support what this religion preached.
The Zero, decimal system, Indian numerals, astronomy, astrology, trigonometry, ayurveda, chemistry, everything even up to the Hindu dream-analysis, had now reached Baghdad, and the local Irani scholars were now in a position to formulate further theorums. Fascinated by Indian astronomy, Caliph al-Mamun ordered an observatory built in Baghdad in 829 and one soon after outside of Damascus.
Another less well known fact is that almost all of the scholars known as Arabic to the posterity were actually Iranian e.g. al-Khwarizmi, al-Biruni etc and some were Spanish but they wrote in Arabic, Arabic being the language of the Emperor. On the other hand not much intellectual activity was going on in Arabian peninsula, which was still the centre of Islamic religious activities.
And lots of lots of history mate- It's just non-sense that islam brought everything. Don't just follow your madrasa history. You live in a modern world. The English are still finding it hard to digest the findings around them.
RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Secular Indian on Feb 27, 2007 02:40 PM Permalink
Just because Islam made it to other parts of the world peacefully doesn't mean the same happened in India. You've reposted this thrice now. Please stop spamming.. You have made this claim earlier that Aurangzeb was a Hindu reformist, so he had to kill them to save them. Get a life. Additionally extra punctuation doesn't really add any semantic content it's irritating.
RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by biju nair on Feb 28, 2007 01:21 AM Permalink
Dear Mohd Ahmed,
Who discovered oil in Arabia? Who explored? Who installed the machines to extract oil?
Is there any Muslim country who can manufacture even a bicycle without any external help?
Whole world knows Abdul Qadeer Khan(Father of first Islamic Bomb) stolen nuclear blueprints from Belgium and got help from China for Nuclear Bomb.
Whole world knows Pakistan received Missile technology from North Korea in exchange of Nuclear technology to them. Everybody knows who helped Iran in Nuclear technology.
Khatna is not started by muslims but by Jews.
Hindus used to wash daily not like muslims who washes only on Fridays.
Hindus used to wash whole body properly not like with two lottas of water as told in Islamic Holy Book.
This guy beleives no body were washing there hands before having food and this tradition started with Islam. It may be true in Arabian Desert context were water is a scarcity but not in India were there are enough water.
RE:RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by Unsung Humanist on Feb 28, 2007 01:41 AM Permalink
Mr Nair, I guess you are a Keralite and has at least an observational knowledge of the relatively more educated Kerala Muslim. How many Muslims have you counted taking bath only on Fridays.
RE:RE:RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by biju nair on Feb 28, 2007 03:29 AM Permalink
Keralite Muslims are hygenic comparing most North Indian counter parts but majority prefers attar to bath.
Still in Kerala one will find Hindus and Christians more hygenic than Muslims.
RE:Understand the Basics, please!!!!!!!!
by omprakash valvekar on Feb 28, 2007 03:13 PM Permalink
The Author here is not aware about the history. Auranzeb how crurely had killed the son of Shri. Shivaji Maharaj, .i.e. Shri. Sambaji., he had killed him by intense toucher, first removed eyes, then cut off hands, the legs, then ears, then tounge, then head......
On the other hand when Auranjeb once was doing namaz, that time it his camp was attacked by shivaji people. They wanted to kill him. But!they let him go because hindus don't kill people in prayer.
These two incidents tell us truth and difference. Hindu by it self is secular. Islam is ..........
That is just like muslim quote says 'Saw chuhe kake billi, haj ko challi'
