The way this Nation is divided by BJP & its hoodlums in the organisations like RSS/VHP/ Bajrang Dal on the basis of religion will definitely bring another partition of this country. That every human being is identified by his religion and then branded accordingly makes a mockery of humanity. BJP and its organisations, without doing anything worthwhile for this Nation, have been indulging in dividing this nation just to ensure they come to power. The humiliation of muslims & Christians is being done in a systematic manner. This humiliation is to such an extent that the minorities may not be able to live in this country for long. The continuous feeling of insecurity, the continuous bombardment of minorities being anti nationals is suffocating the them.
Though we find terrorists in every religion, muslims in India are being targeted as terrorists. What happens to LTTE, what happens to Naxals, what happens to Moninder & Kohli. What happens to Modi & Advani. What happens to RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal. All these people/organisations are terrorists. Why project only muslims as terrorists.
Though Hindus are indulging in preaching & converting others into Hindu fold, why only missionaries are being targeted for preaching christianity. What is Hare Rama Hare Krishna doing. What are so many Yogis doing in the west. What is Guruji Sri Sri Ravishankar doing ?
The only motive of BJP is to get this Nation another partition, it seems. Because a population of almost 16 Crore muslims and 2 crore christians can not live under humiliation by few scoundrels. They must be waiting for another Jinnah to come into picture. That day may not be very far. If, instead of accomodating, the theory of isolation is used, they will definitely prefer to stay in a separate Nation. The muslims will prefer to have another Nation for themselves and Christians will have another Nation. So the land of India will be divided again on the basis of religion. This only can be the result of immense hate campaign run by few fanatic organisations like RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal and their leaders in BJP.
Though very few Hindus are fanatic, they are vociferous. They are mainly Brahmins, the uppers in Hindu fold. They have humiliated the vast masses of backwards, he dalits and the OBC's, for thousands of years. Now because of Govt. efforts they are getting some education and are coming out of the clutches of Brahmins. But thiscommunity is cunning enough to keep them backwards by inciting them in the name of religion.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by Gharpure, Ravindra S on Apr 12, 2007 01:51 PM Permalink
Dear Mandar, I would have joined hands with you to oppose BJP if 1993 Serial Blasts would have been carried out by Sangh Parivar. OR If Godhra Trains would have been burnt by them. OR If Mumbai Train Blasts would have had their involvement. OR if they would have been sending Swayamsevaks in Kasmir Valley for Jehad. OR If Bajarang Dal would have been instrumental in attacking the our Parliament. OR if Sangh Parivar refuses to sing Vande Mataram - the list is much longer - and since these fanatics did not qualify the test - They are not fanatics enough - not yet. On the other hand - they do offer a nationalistic dispensation. They gave a stable and relatively safe govering period for 6 years. And made us a nuclear power. As of now, although I will not staunchly support them but they are the beeter ones to live with.
RE:RE:Freedom from humiliation
by mandar on Apr 12, 2007 05:05 PM Permalink
Gharpure,
Do not keep on repeating the same old points to cover these organisations. These organisations are more detrimental to this Nation than terrorists.
The terrorists organisations feed their cadre with religious fanaticism, the above mentioned organisations do the same. The terrorist organisations survive on spreading hatred on the basis of religion, these organisations also are flourishing by spreading the hatred in the society. The terrorist organisations keep on killing the innocents to achieve their goal. The RSS/VHP/BJP/Bajrang's do the same. Have you forgotten so soon the state sponsored terrorism killing thousands of innocents there. Have you forgotten burning alive of Graham Staines & his sons. Have you forgotten the raping of nuns. I can also give a very big list of activities these scoundrels are indulging into. Terorist organisations believe in creating terror in the minds of people. These organisations have achieved their goal in doing so. Visit Gujarat and the muslims families there. You can find out their helplessness and the fear under which they stay.
What is this Nationalistic dispensation you are talking about. Please ensure once again whether the activities which suit the thugs are being made out to be seen as Nationalistic dispensation. This will be very dangerous.
The present activities carried out by these thugs will eventually lead to partition of India. No community will like to live under the dominance of other. Nor the humiliation can be taken any longer.
If the Govt. finds some terrorists in 1993 blasts, or Mumbai train blast, who is stopping the Govt. to get hold of them and punish them. But because of the acts of few idiots how can you isolate the 16 crore people ? Singing or not singing Vande Mataram hardly makes you more patriotic or less patriotic. This game of Vande Mataram is used by these nonsense organisations just to humiliate the muslims. This can never be an issue for a Nation. Muslims have never denied to sing the National Anthem.
You being Gharpure, definitely you will support staunchly these organisations. Because these organisations are created & run by Brahmins to ensure the Brahmin dominance in a cunning way.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by Gharpure, Ravindra S on Apr 12, 2007 09:31 PM Permalink
Mandar, First, you should refrain from making casteist remarks. If you claim to worry about India as a nation, the first thing that you need to stop is propogating divide in our society on caste/language/religion. I hope you get this. I did care to tell you that I am not an ardent supporter of anyone. However the drama of democracy gives you a choice. The choice we have now is not to choose the best but to choose the least evil. I am quite open to supporting any political group based on their policies and real actions on the ground. India does not have a lot of alternatives. For now there are only two national players - The Congress and the BJP. Congress have had their chance and it only stands to reason that someone else be given a chance to make a difference. BJP is only two decade old phenomenon. If you are trying to tell me that religious conflicts in India were conceptualized, created and executed by RSS/BJP - I am afraid you would be mistaken. If I study the history that is taught to us in our schools - a history writtem by left leaning scholars - never told me that Hindus as a group at any time demanded for bifurcation of our nation. Someone did - and succeeded. And religious conflicts in India date back much prior to curent date - long before even Europeans came here. Ayodhya issue was noit born in 1980s. It is centuries old and has been responsible for riots decade after decade, century after century. Just to give a perspective, RSS and likes never existed then. So holding RSS and company responsible does not seem very intelligent. Especially more so because people seem to vote for them. At the same time, if I see what these guys have to offer is, an educated leadership to begin with. And if you see the statistics of their 6 years' rule you will find that they fared a bit better than earlier regimes. As far as riots are concerned - loss of human life is deplorable under all circumstances. However, if we have deicided to make a case from Godhra and brand a party as communal then National Confrence and Congress in J&K, entire congress for 1984 massacre thru out the country need to be highlighted in the same breath. And then what option do we have Samajwadis of UP or Communists from Bengal ?
Lets condemn all who are sectarian. My advice to you - please do not be selective while you choose to do so.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by biju nair on Apr 13, 2007 01:24 AM Permalink
Hey!!!!!! Fandar Mucker !!!take a visit visa and visit Saudi Arabia. Find out how Kafirs are treated there.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by chaitanya kumar on Apr 12, 2007 12:44 PM Permalink
how many times were you humiliated and your points refuted point by point by members in this forum and you still post the same drivel. Is humiliation is what you are looking for?
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by mandar on Apr 12, 2007 01:08 PM Permalink
Why are you blind to see the humiliation of minorities by the above mentioned organisations ? Why can you not read the humiliation perpetrated on backwards ? Just for satisfaction, can you open any of the discussions on reservations, where the backwards are humiliated ?
Do these organisations want India to be partitioned again on the basis of religion ? No where in the world, the Nations have remained united if the people of one community are dominated or humiliated by others.
RE:RE:Freedom from humiliation
by chaitanya kumar on Apr 12, 2007 01:22 PM Permalink
i am not against reservations for dalits and tribes. Rest are debatable. I mean OBC and religious based. Such reservations belie ground realities.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by mandar on Apr 12, 2007 01:29 PM Permalink
For RSS, upliftment of backwards is debatable because they are the champions of Brahmins. RSS was started by a Maharashtrian Brahmin and is run by Brahmins to keep up their superiority.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by chaitanya kumar on Apr 12, 2007 01:39 PM Permalink
well, the future sarsangchalaks will be not brahmins(two of the past sarsangchalaks are not brahmins). What do you do when the rest don't take lead in protecting their traditions whatever it be but break the idols and such things. Why blame the Brahmins if they took the lead in forming RSS. The things have degenerated because India as such has become casteist. Congress and CPM is more brahmin than RSS for that matter. So mud slingling and RSS has to take the dirt too, to gain foothold. You suspect it's intentions only because they call for a Hindu unification and rest talk secular but are Brahmin to the core. Every party perpetrates division of society. SP, BSP, DMK, ADMK, TDP, RJD, you name it. RSS calls for unification of people instead. What to do if Muslims find it difficult to integrate.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by chetan manral on Apr 12, 2007 01:42 PM Permalink
Reservation on the basis of Cast and religion seems antithetical to the word secular..Reservation should be there but on the basis of income of the family and not there religion..also the families that dont adhere to family planning should be debarred from getting this privelage.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by Venkatesh Vaidyanathan on Apr 12, 2007 02:45 PM Permalink
i like you thought process about setting some criteria standards for providing reservations, but how do you make this possible if consequent goverments cant enforce a uniform civil code across the nation .. even today the Muslim Law board is law for the so called minorities, they can give "talak" over SMS and be done .. when the government is fighting tooth and nail to eradicate polio, they give dictums to stay away from polio campaigns .. if they choose to remain away from the mainstream within india and expect special favors and law for themselves .. they will remain outcast ...
For any of my friends before you jump and react saying that i am anti-minority anti-muslim etc .. pl. let me clarify that i have lots of muslim friends, co-workers , well wishers and i am willing to clearly differenciate between the guy on the streets and the ones operating in Kashmir ..
RE:RE:Freedom from humiliation
by NAFASAT KHAN on Apr 12, 2007 01:05 PM Permalink
whether hiduism n BJP the same thing?mr.chitanya kumar,you are a reasonable person.i have read so many postings of yours n i admire those on the basis of rationalities.Hindus are great,RSS moderate but what about VHP/Bajrangdal.one will have to accept the fact that fundamentalism/terrorism,not exclusive to muslims,neither all muslims,even majority of them,is not related to it,then it is always painful reading the postings which depict entire muslim community as traitors,terrorists,anti-nationals.data are evidence the terrorists in kashmir have killed so many muslims also.why!bcoz those who don't subscribe to theie idiology,are treated as enemy.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by chaitanya kumar on Apr 12, 2007 01:33 PM Permalink
sorry to burst the bubble Mr. Nafasat Khan, but very few muslims think like you do. But you have a point that people like you are branded when generalization comes into picture. It's a fact of life and that is how rhetoric functions in today's soceity. You should reflect why it's the Muslims who are being cornered vigorously and not Christians(they are when conversions comes into picture), Jews, Parsis in India.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by praveen thakur on Apr 12, 2007 02:08 PM Permalink
Dear so called intellectual,why u keep mum when hindus were driven out from Kashmir valley? Hindu woman were raped and dragged in day light?Where is the preaching of you people,so called intellectual and secular? whether all these terminology are made for hindus only? Pravin
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by mandar on Apr 12, 2007 05:14 PM Permalink
Great Jayan,
Whoever has different views from you Bajrangi's is either a muslim or a christian or a pakistani. You people can not see anything above that. Either one has to subscribe to your views to be an Indian Hindu or else get branded as a anti national. Great Views. Keep it up.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by abhinav goel on Apr 12, 2007 05:55 PM Permalink
Dear Mandar.......well there are a few takers for what u say dear these days. Most of us know what u r now. The fact is that Hinus have not woken up and r not ready to be broken on basis of caste. When hindus start voting en block.....to BJP the likes of u will be on u r knees.....saying we r minorities and we don't loathe BJP. What about Hindus in Kashmir / Pakistan /. Bangladesh....whom u have finished in a genocide...whic has it parallels only to Hitler.
U go on strike in multitudes against hanging of Afzal. U take out huge rallies against Bush. Have u ever taken out huge rallies to protest against the atroicties commited by u r brothers in Kashmir and elsewhere? I will give u an example. IN Assam...when ULFA started killing hindi speaking labourers........the entire junta in Assam came out in huge numbers to protest against it. If u r patriotic......prove it with u r work........not by ur speech dear. We r not fools. Actions speak much louder than words. All of u secretly admire crimnals like Dawood / Abu Salem...for robbing hindus. Otherwise how can u explain that Abu Salem could even think of contesting in an election after everyone knows that he is a known crimnal. Mind u he did not fight against injustice. He is not a freedom fighter. Just a common crimnal.
Till date barring a few muslims...........I have found that most of the muslims......even eductaed are anti-India and pro-Pakistan.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by suraj mandal on Apr 13, 2007 12:56 AM Permalink
HAHAHA i laugh on this abhinav as well as his BJP, first what made you to say all hindus vote for bjp ? are u sure. ok first have a look : IN ANY ELECTION (am leaving UP, right now) count total bjp votes that it gets in an election, count other party votes in an election (en bloc) .Ok. now what fantastic figure u will find : it will never be more than 30% barring one or two seats) of total votes polled, if even that gets so called en bloc factor which he was boasting so much. ok now the real stats. all know how much percentage hindus population in india (leaving aside muslims, christians and others, watever) must be 80%. so ur BJP got 80% muliplied by 30%= 25% SHARE OF HINDUS VOTES IN ALL THE BEST CASE IF U FUEL THE ATMOSPHERE OF TOTAL HINDUS VOTES (and mind this 30% also includes others votes must be roughly 5% for which u always abuse, which is infact your party's base to abuse mostly MUSLIMS, CHIRISTIANS and get votes of hindus) so if its to be cut further than it can never be MORE THAN 20% in best case. SO U THINKING 20% OF HINDUS SUPPORTING U.................AND OTHER 80% HINDUS, WHO DONT VOTE, WHAT ARE THEY, WILL U DARE TO CALL THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE ALSO HINDUS, ARE THEY SLAVES. keep YOUR SICK MIND in your dustbin. ok now about UP. in UP mostly BRAHMINS VOTE FOR BJP in that 20% because all know its UPPER CASTE BASED PARTY. if that hadnt been the case, BSP IS NO WHERE IN WINNING POSITION (WE ALWAYS VOTE FOR BSP, NEVER VOTED FOR BJP, THOUGH WE ARE HINDU). understood
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by Zonda on Apr 12, 2007 01:11 PM Permalink
Dear mandar, Sadly Hindu extremists could not be thrown out of India in 1947 and they are the ones who are RSS/BJP/VHP. Majority of Indians believe in peace & harmony. There has been unity in India despite of such diversity. My dear friend Evil could never win though they always look strong and very close to victory. BJP/RSS are evil for Indian people, they may appear popular on rediff but where it matters they are not, therefore don%u2019t feel humiliated. This nation is to grow strong and its people are going to stay together. Congratulations to all on test fire of Agni -3.
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by Abbasi on Apr 12, 2007 08:56 PM Permalink
I salute you! Atleast you are one who would talk of developement. I would be happier to have a comfortable life that we head out west for in India and a safe future then a country with divided identity
RE:Freedom from humiliation
by chaitanya kumar on Apr 12, 2007 01:18 PM Permalink
well i can tell you onething. I don't know about BJP, but RSS will grow like hell. Like hell. The simple reason for it is that most of it'c cadre are not brahmins and i would advise mandar and others to refer sources that are distanced from "mainstream" press to get clear picture of Sangh and it's affiliated bodies. Indian media is as good as a sold out to vested interests.
RE:RE:Freedom from humiliation
by sanjay bhardwaj on Apr 12, 2007 01:23 PM Permalink
Will some one clarify what is meant by minority religion ... uptill when will muslims continue to be a minority in up ... please clarify after what percentage will they no more be a minority ...
