Secularism is not only for BJP, openly communal parties like IUMUL, SP (Mulayam) should be also answerable to all anti Hindu outburst; congress party has been also guilty of same in the past and also so called so many Maulanas of Muslim community who openly insult Hindus in their meetings.
Muslim get Hajj subsidies, what Hindus get? Muslims get funding for madrassah, WAKF board etc , what Hindus are getting? Just forget India --anywhere in world in name of subsidies, show me Pakistan where it is exactly opposite (Hindus are being hounded and killed)? Ask our Muslim brethren to appeal to Pakistan and Bangladesh too in this their secular appeal.
Hindus are being taunted for casteist by Converts who are Christians or Buddhist; ask them who gave them these rights? Why can't they be caught and jailed for writing offensive to Hindus. It is more than CDs? You will find how they discrete Lord Siva and other Hindu Gods. They should be jailed immediately.
Muslims burned Hindu pilgrims (in train & buses) in India, Imagine what would have happened to minority people in Muslim countries if they tried to kill even one haji (one Muslim in the name of religion). Muslim Kings built 1000 of mosques on so many holiest of Hindu Shrines and none of Muslims have come forward to handover those back to Hindus, instead they are claiming birth right on those (Babri Mosque/ Kashi temple etc). I ask the questions to real Muslim , What if your Makkah & Medina are occupied by Americans and American build their churches on top of it. ?
Show me one Muslim country in the world where they have spared minority to thrive, they have killed minorities everywhere or forced converted. Even in India it is the Hindus who convert if they marry a Muslim whether Hindu boy or girl. Such is the mentality among Indian Muslim community forget about Pakistan, Bangladesh or other rabid Muslim countries.
When they are on back-foot they will cry for secularism from Hindus, I ask every Muslims to show something from your heart too that you are really secular. Call upon Muslim parties to be really secular too.
Muslims leadership should come forward and apologize. There has been grievances What CD has done is highlighting from Hindu perspective, but we need to look into reasons for these and address rather than coming up with a new false CD which is a show in one up-man ship of congress and left.
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by yadav on Apr 11, 2007 09:51 PM Permalink
kamaal, which commission ur talking about, the Benerji commission..? which was nullified by the Supreme court.The whole world knows who burnt the train.People from mini-pakistan in Godra burnt it. Ragarding Malaysia, do u know that the malaysian constitution treats all malays as muslims and the Chinese and indian immigrants are slowly being marginalized. Do u know about the 100 year old temple demolition in malaysia..? Just google about the minority status in malaysia, u will get the answers
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by kamaal udd on Apr 11, 2007 10:15 PM Permalink
mini-pakistan....what the hell is that...ohh pakistani is the term you guys use for muslims. Who is there in the supreme court? you same hindus. Tell me how many have been convicted for Gujarat riots? atleat one percent? Why should we trust Supreme court? Malaysia does treat everybody equally and everybody is thriving. In Google search, if there are 10 results and if one of them is negative, you just select that and cry about it. Yes, there are some islamic rules followed in Malaysia...but same is the case in India. Religous conversion is banned in most of the BJP states, cow slaughter is banned. Yeah, I love all the islamic countries but I love India more than them because its my motherland. Its not yours or hindus own property....I can give and take life for it.
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by Kaushik Das on Apr 12, 2007 01:41 AM Permalink
Only forcible religious conversion is banned. If that irks you, it means you were involved in forceful conversions. . Mii paks are those areas where citizens of this country are wary of entering, areas that celebrate pak victory over india. . Yes, it is we same hindus in the SC who have given you equal rights. Wanna challenge that? Oh, sorry, how can you miss the goodies that India offers you? . Why should anyone be convicted of gujarat riots when you guys believe in the theory of revenge? How many afzals have been hanged? How many revenge riots took place here, how many muslims were convicted? IN fact, even TADA was scrapped because muslims were getting arrested. . Yes, since malaysia considers everybody muslim, it treats everybody equally. But does it allow freedom of expression, if that expression is against islam? Recently, a dead hindu was declared a muslim and buried. When his wife protested, the courts told her she was not allowed to protest in the internal muslim affairs. So much so for equality in malaysia - and that is the BEST country you guys have. :-)) . Why shouldn't cow slaughter be banned? You were talking about the goodness of hinduism. Ok, i want everyone to share the goodness of vegetarianism in hinduism. So, we banned cow slaughter. Bloody, you guys came from arabia to eat cows, is it? Will the saudis like it if someone protests the ban on alcohol? . So far, you have been taking life only
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by LAGIDU on Apr 11, 2007 08:55 PM Permalink
Kamal Bhai, when you have 116 best islamic countries, what makes you stick to Bharatvarsh, I mean the neo India. Take the lead and negotiate with these 116 countries. proportionately allocate your population and migrate to those best countries. why are you not doing it? it is a win-win solution for all.
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by Omar Shariff on Apr 11, 2007 09:34 PM Permalink
lagidu bai u don't own india for u 2 decide who will stay & who will go . if u do not like here u go 2 europe or arya land .
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by seek the truth on Apr 12, 2007 01:22 AM Permalink
understand yourself
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by LAGIDU on Apr 11, 2007 10:05 PM Permalink
Omar bhai, u r paying the price for the aggression of ur forefathers and we r paying the price for the weakness of our forefathers. since kamal bhai wrote so gloatingly about 116 islamic states, i made the suggestion to him. Hindus do not have problem anywhere. For centuries they have been migrating to all over the globe. But the only difference is that they do not indulge in conversion activities.
Ultimate solution can come only in the form of your migration. Without conversion activity, muslims and christians lose self esteem. Migration will be the peaceful solution. The alternative is a bloody and gory end to all.
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by kamaal udd on Apr 11, 2007 10:29 PM Permalink
you lagidu, lets talk about conversion. In Islam people are encouraged to convert non-muslims to guide them to the straight path. If you think that Hinduism is good and can make others a better human, why don't you convert other people to hinduism...you don't want to share the goodness of hinduism with others? you don't want others to be as good as hindus? The bottom line is you are very selfish. Highly educated europeans and americans are converting to Islam in the land where the total atmosphere is anti-muslim. Also, you want to say is if we don't migrate to an Islamic country, then we'll have gory end....you mean like that of Gujarat. Now tell me who is terrorist and blood thirsty, muslims or hindus like you.
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by Kaushik Das on Apr 12, 2007 01:31 AM Permalink
Also, udd, he specifically mentioned gory end to all, but quite expectedly, you did not listen completely. THAT is the paranoiac terrorist mindset which thinks that the whole world is out to get you. . Since you mention gujarat, may i remind you of its predecessor, Godhra? Or its 'revenge' in Mumbai, Marad, Delhi, Mau, Lucknow, Varanasi, Akshardham, Coimbatore...
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by LAGIDU on Apr 11, 2007 11:23 PM Permalink
kamal bhai, read again. I meant gory end to ALL. it includes all beings in india. What i meant was that bombing and burning may not always be one sided. Ultimately all will perish.
We prefer to call our religion 'Sanatana Dharma'. Hinduism was coined by invaders. Since our belief is that a person / jeevatma takes innumerable births until salvation, we are not unduly perturbed with divinity. We know that it takes quite a long time to reach God.
Since you dont believe in reincarnation, you are aggressive and want to achieve everything within a single lifetime. Consequently you lose peace. We are not selfish. Any number of positive notes are available in the internet on vedas, upanishads and the bhagvat gita. You can read them. There is no dearth of Gurujis also all over the world. You can approach them.
My feeling is that once you accept reincarnation and logically understand the cause and effect formula, peace will automatically come to you. You will not be agitated by a CD or a film. You will also not fall in identity crisis. In this birth you are a muslim. In past births you might have been a hindu or a jew or whatever. I might have been an animal or insect. It is possible. Once you understand that our journey started thousands of years back in various births and will go on for thousands of years more, you wont mind for petty things like CD or film or modi.
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by Kaushik Das on Apr 12, 2007 01:28 AM Permalink
udd, Spiritualism cannot be forced - the happiness of it has to be experienced oneself. Force can only get discipline, not realisation. Since islam is largely devoid of spiritualism, it bags on force. Hinduism is not that way. . Actually, in Europe and America, only the lowly, discriminated blacks are converting to islam. The highly educated do not have time for religion. Will you follow this example (oh sorry, you are not allowed to be an athiest). . Again, will you follow the example of americans and europeans in changing their religion? Oh sorry, again, apostasy is punishable by death in islam - islam is so afraid of itself. . there are more muslim converts in africa than in europe and america. Yet, you name Eu and AM. Are you racist???
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by Sharath Madavaram on Apr 11, 2007 10:19 PM Permalink
Your giving a Rupee and saying its a $.
Anyways good reply and dont call us thugs - you must agree except for Gujrat episode (where the wrong is from 2 sides) there were never problems. BJP did rule with responsibility. Do you disagree!
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by kamaal udd on Apr 11, 2007 10:54 PM Permalink
except Gujarat.....just ask a mother whose son was burnt alive in the gujarat riots and ask her to just forget that one day. And I never mean all Hindus...Hinduism is a great religion and most of the followers are great and highly tolerant, but if anybody supports what BJP, RSS, VHP does, I as a muslim and a human cannot tolerate that.
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by Kaushik Das on Apr 12, 2007 01:50 AM Permalink
Ok, so now, udd, you are coming back to the revenge aspect. If you don't want that mother to forget a day when her son was killed, there are many, many more mothers in the world whose sons were killed by and because of islam and muslims. . RSS has helped more muslims than even muslims themselves. BJP has been the best party in power and your freedom on the Net today is also due to them. Otherwise, you might have had to post your opinion in a po box. . I am not too fond of VHP, so I will not comment on them - however, I also won't term BJP, RSS and VHP in the same breath.
RE:Rule should apply for everybody- Handover Hindu holy Shrine if you claim to be secular
by G S on Apr 11, 2007 10:17 PM Permalink
I appreciate your sentiments, and I was expecting some fact based replies and you did that to some extent. I have lived very close to Muslim family and they are very close to me. But for the sake of discussion I would like to know something... 1. Little subsidy (it is not little please check the facts in annual budget) what u say %u2013 but other religion do not get that also. As there is nothing as organized as WKF board for Hindu or Buddhist priest etc 2. You say yes taunted, even though you have no rights stating that (and it is misinterpretation of religion and evil system that corrupted Hindu society). And also to remind you that why Muslims feel bad when they are taunted about women in veils or other issues like terrorism etc. You should also take it in right spirit and admit it. We admit it an evil in our religion. But still no religion accepts taunts from other religion people, right isn't it. 3. Agree Pakistan is not model state, but there are no model Muslim state . Malaysia has been forcing its religious ideology and recently exposed it self by destroying many Hindu temple (politicians and govt. supported!) 4. Your reference to Akbar is good, but all went in vain as Aurangzeb destroyed all what was made by Akbar, and also demolished many holiest shrines. What makes Muslim leadership not to come out against those wrongs and handover our temples and join hand in re-building? It will be a great day and Hindus will also join hand and help them in their grievances. 5. BJP or as for matter of fact SP or congress all have goondas, I do not trust political parties. Tomorrow if BJP starts getting Muslim votes or more Muslim join it change overnight so I won't argue with you on that. 6. No population should be treated badly or killed --I do not agree with that ideology, but what I am harping on that there are certain grievances in CDs ( maybe from Hindus perspective only, I have not seen it) too that Muslim leaders should discuss and take it in right spirit ( and also discuss their grievances). And both the community needs to sit down and correct it.
Economic and political issues should be tackled separately, but due to grievances these CDs are coming up and they need to be addressed. Just by adding another CDs (calling secular) doesn't solve the problem.
Muslims depravation and economic backwardness need to be corrected, but not as Muslims but as Indians. And believe me this is India%u2019s problem. People stray from the real issue and make it some other issue.
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by kamaal udd on Apr 11, 2007 10:40 PM Permalink
1 What I was saying is that 2% 3% subsidy is nothing, it is just a fee of monopolizing airways between gulf and India...Infact govt is making more money by monoplizing air route. 2) Covering a women in veils is nothing wrong and I don't have to accept that it is a bad thing about Islam..It protects the modesty of a women and makes them secure. Terrorism, what does LTTE, ULFA, VHP, RSS is doing? Isn't it terrorism? Get the defination of terrorism and compare with what these hindu orgs are doing. 3)Malaysia is a model muslim state and still even the best will have some flaws. Tell me a model hindu state? NEPAL? hahaha...see what happens if there is a hindu state religion. 4) Yeah, I agree what aurangzeb did was not right, so what you want to do? repeat what he did? If you think he was wrong, you will repeat that wrong? ohh sorry you already did by destroying babri masjib... 5)Yes all parties have goondas, but what BJP does is totally inhuman and clearly against hinduism, as I far as I know about hinduism... 6) Why do you think they made that CD? Just to greaten the hindu muslim divide and in return get hindu votes... about muslim depravation....I'll give you an example. If you have a tree in home, you don't water the plant, don't even let sunlight fall on it, what do you think will happen to that plant? Do you expect fruits on it?
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by Kaushik Das on Apr 12, 2007 01:46 AM Permalink
point 2 - this modesty thing is BS. Even nude women in the US are safe. THAT is what is called safety. India, acceptedly, is not that safe. But it is not the covering but the mentality of people that makes it safe / unsafe. . Can you gurantee that a covered woman will be safe? NO. In saudia, every woman is covered, yet they are treated shabbily and treated as sexual objects only. So much for modesty.
