Golden, I saw your postings. I saw your rooting towards pakistan and you are saying they will do that blah blah... I have a question here, so why are you feeling proud of it ? Don't you have any morale and social responsibility towards the country you are living in and towards your fellow citizens?
RE:Golden
by Onie on Feb 20, 2008 07:17 PM Permalink
Golden you are the perfect example of what is wrong with contemporary Islam. You cannot engage rationally with the teachings of Islam, you cannot separate the good from the bad and you want to win your arguments not by reasoning but raising your voice the loudest. To you everything in Islam is by definition perfect, anyone who tries to reform Islam is by definition an enemy.
Well I have news for you. As great & divine as the Prophet may have been, his teachings have since been interpreted and passed down my mortal men. Mortal men are imperfect and it is dangerous to pretend otherwise. Islam, as it is practiced, would be a better gentler religion if it would be open to questioning and debate.
Mind you I do not believe that it is Islam itself that is the problem. Go back a thousand odd years and it was the west that was uncivilised, violent and communal and it were Arabs who were enlightened, rational and knowledge loving. In fact, that so much of the works of the Greek Civilisation has survived, in spite of persecution from the Roman Catholic Church is largely due to the enlightened protection of the Muslims of that time.
But today, it is the interpretation of Islam that has become the problem; the interpretation is rigid, inhumane, bigoted and nihilistic.
If you love Islam, think more about how can you make it a gentler, more forgiving religion rather than think about how can you make the world more Islamic.
RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:20 AM Permalink
to Onie @ "Golden you are the perfect example of what is wrong with contemporary ..." I perfectly agree with you for your first three paragraphs..particularly the interpretation by mortal men who are imperfect... But your statment "Mind you I do not believe that it is Islam itself that is the problem" doest not comply with your other statments in same blog...the same switching policy...now after you have been given the argument your imbecille aggressiveness against Islam is reduced...well at least you come to a peacefull dialogue...I sincerly appreciate and welcome you for that... @ "But today, it is the interpretation of Islam that has become the problem; the interpretation is rigid, inhumane, bigoted and nihilistic" ..is partially correct..it is misinterpreted by some illetrate peoples not majority of muslims... @"more forgiving religion rather than think about how can you make the world more Islamic.." honestly...now ..in present world situation...tell me where there is any Islamic Army ivading its neigbouring non muslim countries or lands and forcing them either to accept islam with sword or gunpoint or die? talk some sense man..as per your own answers in above blogs..muslims dont have education..they are running out of technology and sceintific development and all that GDP data discussed above...everywhere you see if there is violence then it is in places where muslim countires have been invaded by USA, Britain Israel etc...isn't their right to fight for their f
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:36 AM Permalink
to Onie So muslims are not trying to make this world Islamic..but surely non muslims are 24 hours agaisnt muslims on the surface and underground....every now and then you bring the same thousand of time repeated accusation..the same set of misinterpretation..and you bring it in limelight..with differnt angles..either through printing a cartoon of Prophet in the name of freedom of speech...or bringing any muslim lady divorce case in the remote illetrate village of India or bangladesh and discussing it with "highered Mulla " and spreaded by biased media.... why don't you come common ground for dialogue and instead of blowing your own trumpet of one sided analysis why dont you discuss with Islamic scholars? why the programs of IRF ( Islamic Research Foudation) or Peace TV have not been give coverage by media?? because you dont want the people to know the truth.... every time same and same and same accusation.." kill the kaafir...marry with four wives...beat you wives....three time divorce... etc etc"...thousand of detailed logical and elaborative explanations are given about these misquotations...but you dont listen that..as soon as we answer one..you will jump to next..then we answer that you will jump to another one...and it happens in cyclic manner..because you have only these much points to play... nobody forced 47,000 americans on gunpoint to accept Islam immediatly after 9/11..they accepted at their own will after knowing what exactly Islam is nt wt is shwn by media...
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:01 PM Permalink
yes, yes, you laugh, i dont mind, i have better jobs to mind. we are patriots otherwise we should not have produced ashfaqullah, Dr. Zakir Hussain and Abul Kalam Azad for india. but we shall not obey and support for any thing indians or india do. we know what is bad and what is good and what is right and what is wrong. you will find us supporter only in case of right things, in wroing things only hindus will support you. reason is simple. our religion is based on truth not on myths and stories.
RE:Golden
by kadwa sach on Feb 21, 2008 12:54 AM Permalink
These people you quote did not become great because of religion. They became great because they considered religion to be a private thing and did not use the way you are. You last statement "our religion is based on truth and not yours" gives you away. Thank of all or any great muslim indians like the ones you name above and imagine would they ever make such a statement? And imagine what would they say when you say this in front of them? If you can do this without jumping out of your skin to type a reply, you would understand what makes them great.
RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:07 PM Permalink
i have not rooting towards pakistan, i have rooting towards islam, so why does it bother you. are you enemy of islam, if so come with clear sign.dont hide behind secular curtain. i condemn musharraf he is a pakistani too but doing a lot of harm to muslims and islam so i must condemn them. why did you not say that i am anti pakistan (rooted to God knows where) because i condemn mush... the thing is very clear you do bad and treat injustly you will have an arch enemy in the form of golden, no matter you belong to pakistan or any where else. i supported to gallant people of afghanistan (talibaans) too why did you not label me to afghan, while i curse today's afghans who are in minority but ruling and forcing the anti islamic culture and tradition of musilms tehre with the help of usa and its dirty soul selling stooges like karzaaee.... dont label me anything, i am indian but i love islam which teaches me to judge and take the right decision unlike your religion. you will always support india and indians no matter what but dont expect the same from any muslim from any where, they support truth and justice no matter what. and i am much more indian than you because i am providing india a truthful and just citizen unlike you who sells his soul for anything. today itmay be india, tomorrow you will sell for money, if truth is nto the criteria then it can be anything and any time itcan change. only truth remains unchanged lies changes time to time and it doest matter to it.
RE:RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:50 AM Permalink
join irf.net and other such authentic sites and see how your mentioned website and other such websites have been exposed with solid proof and logic... also countercurrent.org will show you the secular face of india
RE:Golden
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 07:14 PM Permalink
dude why do you think I am hiding behind secular curtain, I don't need to. Rooting means supporting, look back at your previous posting heading "God fearing Pakistanis" you wrote "even other country cant give help and prepare some country to do the nuke test in justone week. pak was in fact ready for long and waiting for india's step and idiot bjp govt. of india gave this chance to pakistan. and now the same nawaz is back in power. collect your tears you will need them."
You are saying Indian has to collect their tears so I asked you why are you happy about pakistan, dont you have moral and social resposibility. Why should I care whether you follow Islam or whatever. It is you who said muslims are brave and great. so I asked if you think you are so great muslim dont you have social responsibilty. When I asked your commitment towards country you started to cliam you are more indian than me ! I wonder is this turth, look at your articles.
I don't want to discuss further with you, just think whether are doing / acting good, are you true by your words ?
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:37 PM Permalink
i shall say again,i am not happyabot pak, i am happy about islam. this land pak is same with the same lattitude and longutude right? but now this mush-bush combinationhas been defeated there and our brothers there have shown great Mattel by defying all the odds and defeating mush-bush. so i must congratulate them. now dont say i am pakistni coz i say my brothers in pakistan. i have brohters in india also. any one who follows the right path andis love of humanity and justice despite of his any race, region and religion is my brother.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:52 AM Permalink
do you know hindu's ( and not hinduims ) are famous in the history for underground conspiracies...being polite and freindly on face and stabbing in back with dagger??????
RE:Golden
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 08:04 PM Permalink
you say who follow right path is your brother and below this message you write about ram (it is reported as abuse and deserves it). I don't want disgusting, abusing brother like you. I am happy as I am. I did not use any bad words and you write all crap.. you are bad and I don't want brother like you. Live like good human in this society. Stop condemning others, it is the best thing you can do in any day, this is the best truth of life.
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:46 AM Permalink
Fun Man you might have not used any abusive word mr fun man, but many of your supporters did in the same blog and other replies to the same messeges..any comment about that? and look at the heated responsed to Golden and me..we are two only..and Golden might have used abusive language ONCE OR TWICE....but you immediatly reacted to it... and what about the messeges posted by veera, sincere citizen, perfect race and many others? weren't they abusive..didn't they continuously used bad words for Allah, Quran and Prophet...oh wait wait..I remember now..it was FREEDOM OF SPEECH...right correct..i got it now..when you did it..it is freedom of speech...and when we did it it is crap..and unqualifies us for being your brother.....and here you yourself accept because few of our accusations hurt your feelings then you hate us and dont want us as brothers...why dont you teach same ethics to your brothes doing same thing and all other blogs and orkut communities on the internet, in newspapers, and in tv programs>?????
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:56 AM Permalink
true..and i dont blame you for that...but because you are only once race ..you dont welcome people to your religions ( because you think they are inferior and nondeserving )...but Islam is religion for whole mankind..and mand kind is spreaded all over the world from Asia to Europe to America to China...so naturally you can not put them only one tag..every muslim will be muslim first then whatever his race or coountry is....
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:16 PM Permalink
Vik If we are following and abiding the country laws thats enough why the question is being raised who is first and who is last,,,
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:34 PM Permalink
also if you are so pseudo patriotic and india first kind of person then i am sure. you will support for every thing india does even if does mistakes and kills any one. but muslims wont do that. muslims see what is wrong and what is right. just see this. there area lot of marathi musilms but did they come on theroad shouting jai maratha and killing north indians? NO. the reason is simple, if you bind yourself with petty reasons then this will happen you will support to every wrong things. you will start diving yourself into indians, then maharashtrian and then some mumbiakar, you will become narrow minded more and more.but muslims support only truth and just dicisions. thats what make the difference if you take your indiafirst and religion last. we muslims take religion first and clearly see that it is justified that every indian has got right to live anywhere in india. so why come on road like goons of MNS manoos. but narrow minded persons like who keeps the ethics aside and follow some slogans and some selfish characters in society will never understand this.
RE:RE:Golden
by Vik on Feb 20, 2008 07:54 PM Permalink
golden i read your reply before it was abused and deleted. i really appretiate mbt for his thinking. you know what i would like --- acceptance. i accept islam must be a great religion. i would love muslims to accept other religions and not try to impose their thoughts and think inferior of other religions too.
RE:Golden
by Vik on Feb 20, 2008 07:42 PM Permalink
Golen, are you trying to say that muslims never do wrong??? Are you sure you want to debate on this? i can either convince you, or you can be adamant and just stick to your point arrogantly. but think about saying that muslims only support the right. and also rethink before saying that muslims are broad minded.
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:47 PM Permalink
Vik Every religion has some bad elements,,, The best thing is not to judge religion by its followers - judge it by its religious books. There are few bad elements in all religions.
RE:RE:Golden
by on Feb 21, 2008 01:54 PM Permalink
golden why there r sharia laws prevalant only in few countries out of 57 OIC nations?....why does pakistan refrain from sharia laws?...that is because they are not practical in todays world.
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 03:13 AM Permalink
Vik, are you saying these other people in blog are saying that ONLY MUSLIMS ARE WRONG..and everyone else in India and whole world is good...do you agree to that? do youuuuuuuuuu want to debate on that? i could also either convince you or you can also be adamant and just stick to your points arrogantly which apparently others in the same blog are doing...offcourse muslims are broad minded..not all..but those who understand and practise Islam...
RE:Golden
by veera kumar on Feb 20, 2008 07:41 PM Permalink
yes-HINDUSTAN is our last country ..no matter whatever it may be i will support my beloved BHARAT ...
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:51 PM Permalink
do it. your bhartiaya man goes and rapes .you support it, coz he is bhartiya.. do it. i dont mind. i shall once get chance and chop off your head as raping is bad and a heinous crime and i shall not see that rapist is abdullah or sitaram, golden or veera, or indian or paistani. yes, there is very basic difference between you and me and i am happy that i am not among you.
RE:RE:Golden
by Onie on Feb 20, 2008 07:33 PM Permalink
That is not enough... because our constitution calls for free speech and equal rights for women. People who put religion before their country (Muslim or Hindu) fail to respect their constitution and create law and order problems for the rest of us. That is why you have riots to protest against Taslima and vandalism to protest against MF Hussain.
RE:RE:RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:37 PM Permalink
Well some people are mixing relgious issues with the country like Singing vandemataram, Marraige certificate.. thr. is no point to singing vande materam though we are singing Jan Gan Mana (national athem), so i think thr will be no question of loyal to the country.
RE:Golden
by Vik on Feb 20, 2008 07:25 PM Permalink
i appretiate that mbt. and i am not saying you are anti-indian at all. just that i have muslim friends and if they are asked if they have to save india or islam, they say they would choose islam. i wold like it the other way round, although i myself do not know why or what is right. i guess as far as we love our country, it's ok. i hate when people claim india to be a hindu country. the truth is that our preamble states we are secular and that what makes india greater than any other place in the world. unity in diversity.
RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 03:09 AM Permalink
Vik, @"just that i have muslim friends and if they are asked if they have to save india or islam, they say they would choose islam.."
save india from Whome and What? isn't your test hypothetical....and suppose India is being in danger by some means ( I don't know what that will be in your mind ) then if that danger is evil then Islam ask muslims to fight agaisnt evil...so naturally muslims will fight for India...or anywhere.. so those who are not Indian or live outside India..even if they are being killed and suffering then you will not save them...isn't that ironic to what you are crying for? "Islam being Inhuman..reason of trouble all over the world etc" so why u are concerned about the people all over the world according to your own statment above " I wold like it the other way round" and is that fare? those who dont live India or dont say bharat mata ki jai ..are not human beings? their problems are not problems? is it not the same Nazi theory for one nation, one country and one race only?
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:22 PM Permalink
exactely. but remember our perseverance and steadfastness and true attachment of Allah almighty gave us success those days. today also time has not changed in this regard and we must adapt the same policy of Prophet (SAWS) there is no other way to be succcess in this life and life here after. most of these hindus know very well what their religion mean to them. in fact i have seen some hindu friends making and reciting chaupaees. you know ramayan is full of chaupaees if they sing it looks like they are singing ramayan's chaupaaee but actualy it had dirty meaning and they insult to their god also and if you say anything they will fight to neck and teeth. exactly the similar behaviour kuffar-e-makka had. one such chaupaaaeee i shal msg in the next msg as iam sure it is giong to be banned, but believe me wallah (by Allah) one of my hindu friend said this to me. hesays they make so much of these and enjoy in pass time.
RE:RE:Golden
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 07:20 PM Permalink
Mr Mbt why are you getting religion in the way. What is your problem dude ? I am asking that gentleman to look back at his thoughts and words. You came in the mean while with old dialog kafir, arabia blah... I have nothing to do with you or your arabia or islam. If you belive in islam you follow it why are you calling me intolerant, I have tolerated your words shows I am more tolerant than you. You are intolerant because you are not speaking to the point and blabbering about some old history which I am not interested in. I don't want to talk about your religion, is that clear.
RE:RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 02:12 AM Permalink
@"You are intolerant because you are not speaking to the point and blabbering about some old history which I am not interested in..." then how about the same things being dome by your fellow patriot freinds " Mughals and other Muslim Ivaders attacked us...looted us...stealth our wealth and property..raped our womens....".. then crying.. ".mummy mummy...punish them now.." Infact you urself did the same thing...but as usual..switching..and twisting..and turning...
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:24 PM Permalink
FUN MAN FYI,,, This is a public blog,,, There are people like Veera also it was for him why did you understand it was meant for you only,,,,
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:35 PM Permalink
Veera I sympathise with you for your ignorance & will wait for you to break the shackles your So called Gurus have on you. .
