I think firstly if the rupee appreciates any futher, the jobs are coming back to the US. Even today, running a business in places outside Silicon Valley (eg RTP) is cheaper than setting up business in B'lore.
The top 100 companies in Silicon Valley (100 square mile radius) have a market cap of more than 1.5 trillion dollars. Its good India reached the 1 trillion dollar mark, but no need to day dream. India needs to improve productivity, reduce corruption and fix its infrastructure before it can think about making the rupee appreciate any further. Thanks Jay
RE:Crap
by Sumit Bhandari on Jun 20, 2007 05:43 AM Permalink
HEy J, First of all, India in that given scenario would not only depend on Outsourcing, there can be other businesses.. we would be able to export our products (manufacturing or agricultural or whatever) at much higher rates. Everybody knows that its not only the low cost labour but also the quality the indian companies offer, that is making india a hot spot in IT and manufacturing? everybody knows its driven by demand and demand in India is so freaking high.. With high value of rupee NRIs like me would certainly return back to india for i would have no incentives leaving abroad and treated like a secondary citizen.
RE:Crap
by on Jun 20, 2007 05:52 AM Permalink
Sumit, all the growth in India is 'as of now' predominantly based on IT and back office support...where is manufacturing..from diwali bulbs to hindu god idols..all made in china or taiwan...we are way behind china and other low cost regions in manufacturing...there was a time when a BCOM or a BA could not get a job..so engineering and medicine was the only way out..now they can..in 2000 courses like BCA, MCA, BIT etc etc flourished the market..nd ppl who gt in are today banking on IT and outsourced job..declining rupee means that labour is no longer cheap...nd trust me u cn train a monkey to do a job...so lets forget about oh we indians are so smart...honestly nobody cares...the 3 biggies of indian IT have almost all their customers overseas...if india is no longer able to provide cheap labor..y wud anybody invest in india...furthermore, if u r in IT u wud knw tht most of the jobs that r being outsourced to india are no-brainers....these jobs r synonymous to the operator jobs in manufacturing environment....if India can't innovate and develop all this growth and big financial and economics we are talkin about is goin to fall flat..
RE:RE:Crap
by Sumit Bhandari on Jun 20, 2007 06:03 AM Permalink
HEy "on", Mate, i tell you what, I am being billed at 75 dollars per hour and that makes my cost to company at like 150 thousand dollars per annum; they could easily hire a local person at 100k (max.) why are they retaining me??? Well i work more, faster, better quality and I think we Indians have a good brand value abroad, now a days. Now talking about manufacturing, dude, if you know China is the fake/piracy capital of the world. I am proud that we Indians earn from our Hard work and not by wrong means.. Again, if China gets Democracy it would no longer be able to provide the cheap goods, because then people would have the rights to decide their own prices. Hmm.. let us consider communist India, every software pro or what ever worker in india would have to work for min. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and flat salary of 15k per month? Where you think India would be? at top, right? and Indians?????? In hell.
RE:Crap
by Ajay on Jun 20, 2007 06:50 AM Permalink
Sumit,
So your company is billing the client @ 75 dolars or you are billing your company @ 75...sorry a bit confused.
Last time i hires someone form Oracle India i paid 300/hr, believe this a Oracle rate, be it Canadian resource or Indian.
I will be very happy if Re appreciates.
No doubt Indian resources are good but to call others crap will be a big mistake. Besides if i was working in IT in India i would be very worried about the way Re is going.
RE:Crap
by on Jun 20, 2007 07:52 AM Permalink
Dude, there is a difference between employee salary and CTC. If they hire a local person at 100k, then CTC could be more or less $150K. In addition to that the client can capitalize the entire deliverable cost (in your case $75/hr) they receive from outsourcing vendor, because they buy service/source code from the vendor compared capitalizing its own employee's production (in IT case - source code). Whenever one capitalizes an asset, naturally they can depreciate that asset for tax accounting purposes. Put all this things together, your client saves more than $150K they pay their outsourcing vendor (read your contract house). Bottomline is its profitable for both client and vendor, not because we Indians are (relatively) smarter than locals (depending on region). Also, hardworking in IT companies, is nothing compared hardworking in manufacturing, especially in China, which you already mentioned in your comment.
RE:Crap
by Insane on Jun 20, 2007 06:13 AM Permalink
To begin with I am talking about jobs in India...secondly..why your company is keeping..well..you cost $75/hour to your company..yes you work more, fast etc etc..u work what 2 locals can do (btw americans arnt stupid or dumb.i have come across real brainers )...that's why they r retaining you. they are spending 150k for 1 person doing the work for 2 ppl...now add 2 locals..if I go by what u said 100k (which i don't believe..as cost of a person is determined by what are his returns to the company) it would cost your company 200k...so still they r at a profit of 50k. I agree with what u said for China too...but if rupee falls...IT goes and so does manufacturing...then india and indians will be at the same place..hell...
RE:Crap
by Truth BeTold on Jun 20, 2007 06:10 AM Permalink
Sumit Bhandari, I dont exactly know which country you live in, but could you explain me what makes you feel that you are being treated as a "secondary" citizen? I have never ever had to face any discrimination of any kind in the US for being an outsider. Consider that to our tempers, when we in Mumbai dont want people coming in from all over India. Who is then the secondary citizen in their own country?
RE:RE:Crap
by Insane on Jun 20, 2007 06:18 AM Permalink
I agree man...go to mumbai and the cops, vendors, ticket checkers will screw yur happiness if they find tht u dont know marathi..go down south..they wont speak hindi...go up north to delhi..the autoriskshaw and taxi drivers will rip u the moment they realise u dnt have a northie hindi accent...secnd class..we are never frst class my frnd...most of u live abroad..when u come to indian immigration they wnt to rip u off nd screw yur happiness bt these same immigration officials are nice humans to foreigners..then when u go to a foreign country again u gt screwed 'coz u r brown...so lets not talk 'bout citizenship..we r secnd class every where..even in our country..
RE:Crap
by Mitul Mehta on Jun 20, 2007 07:01 AM Permalink
If India / Indian currency wants to really grow and compete with "developed" countries, there should be a strong domestic demand for goods & services. Our reliance on other economies (like the US) for business should decrease. Hypothetically, if all IT outsourcing to India stops with immediate effect, we will have over 20 million people going jobless (not considering jobs supporting this industry like travel & hospitality, etc which will push the figure even further up). This is an extremely scary situation. Also, Indian businesses should be encouraged to innovate and become globally competetive to withstand MNCs in the home turf. Personally, I am extremely happy with the banking industry in India. Today ICICI & HDFC have given extremely tough competition to MNCs like Citibank & HSBC without any "special treatement" from the Indian government. We should repeat the same in other sectors like FMCG, durables, etc... Doing all this is not easy... India has to go thru a lot of change... but definately not impossible!
RE:Crap
by dull roots on Jun 20, 2007 05:49 AM Permalink
Second your perspectives! The money inflow in India is also due to inflow from NRIs and various forms of FDI. Better to focus of policies to enhance productivity, efficiency, quality of goods and servies, market competitiveness etc.. We need transformation in physical infrastructure and marketisation of land, and a host of other assets.
Else, in per Capita terms it will take more than 100 years to catch up.
