India was never a manufacturing base and the land has more people who will not take any risk at all..slaves and slaves who will lick the masters boots but will starve and die rather than take any inititive to help himself. even today 99.9% of our Young men prefer to lick someones boots rather then to use a brush to shine ones own shoes...our moms wash our plates at our homes while we get ready to wash the whitemans plates in a foreign land..lol and claim there even in my own home i never used to wash vessels..hahahaha. Now what do u expect from such races....entrepreneurship ...
RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by hitender singh on Feb 01, 2007 02:19 PM Permalink
Couldn't agree more, "a country of billion slaves". or rather say clerk factory
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 01, 2007 02:27 PM Permalink
if say someone helps a "gora" raise his profits and makes good money, how is it any different from doing your own business? he is serving his needs, and so are you, is it not? Thay analogy of "goras" is not right at all. Why a lot of talent works for goras is because they pay them better and offer them a better life style. It's not about being a clerk, it's about the fact that they are paid more and offered better perks. So would you say an employ working for you is your "slave"?
RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 03, 2007 04:32 PM Permalink
Dear Mr. Alok, Thanks for the comment. By Goras I meant western civilisation. You see, Japan is the second largest economy as of today. And the Japs use American software and Western people prefer Japanese cars, becuase they find mutual advantage in foregoing the alternative. Japs have not invented a second microsoft reason being they know its no use re-inventing the wheel. Now take the case of India, except for Tally in Finance, I-Flex in Banking softwares, its hard to find a software which is at least 90% Indianised and developed. Now, you cannot say the people working for Tally or I-Flex are not paid well. Now where does the difference comes from, it comes from the vision and the forward perception one needs to imbibe within the culture. A decade ago, Taiwan was the backyard of semi-conductors manufactirers of western world, the Taiwanese are intelligent and they realised this cost advantage cannot continue forever, so they evolved and today we have AMD as the competitor to Intel and they are gradually eating Intel's share. So, what we have now in Taiwan, they have a back-up system up and running and had they kept themselves sleeping ... they would have been nowhere today, isn't it? Thus, the point to drive all of us into is, where are we with our BPO's, KPO's GPO's, and all these Process Outsourcing?? Do we see ourselves fighting with other economies to process only or to develop something new as a self-sustaining mechanism thriving on its own? The answer is right in front of you. Business is not only owning it, they like an employee u too become a slave of customer, business is all about innovation and extrapolating in future and thats where the Goras, I mean the western civilisation is far ahead of us. And as for your logic that innovation comes with better pay - its not very correct. Most of the innovators from any country has come from poor and humble background - Thats rests our case. You can always reach me at sanjay.businessindia@gmail.com
RE:RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 05, 2007 12:55 PM Permalink
thanks for your reply, yes it is not that people in iflex and tally are not well paid, it is how much they will hire as their capacity. There are as may jobs as there can be..correct? Now if there is a person X who is good at say making web sites and microsoft or xsoft or ysoft sees him fit for the same (most indian companies do not venture into the content business) i believe it is fine for him to work in that domain. It is a matter of interests. I work for a wholly indian IT company, I have worked with another Indian software giant but then again I do not see anything wrong with friends who left to persue their intersets with non Indian MNCs. Now also remember, most small business still use excel and lotus 123 a lot more than tally :), is that not correct? Tally if you use it seems to be a simple coded out description of the typical accounting methodology: ledger, books of records, credit , debit, balance sheet etc. Do we not get freeware for the saem, yes we do, do we need it, no we used to account before it, is it innovation: NO!, we do not make chips and disks and drives, we simply made a faster calculator which follows the rules of the book. Microsoft "innovates" with software, tells you a new way to do something, we do not do so, rather indian companies do not do so. DBase worked as well as lotus 123 and lotus 123 scripts/macros with some inline code in turboC worked as well as tally.
RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 03, 2007 04:50 PM Permalink
Dear Mr. Alok, In continuation to your refering, I shall give u a live example, I am a decently educated from Finance. Now, one of my colleague got her MBA from a very reputed Insitituion (within 1st 5 in India) and I asked her what u want to do after your MBA? And her reply was, I want to work for an MNC and then I asked her why is that so? Her reply was they pay well and I can learn new processes. I again cajoled her what is the aim, will u start a new business for that u need to learn new processes? Her reply was blunt, 'Stupid who wants to have a business, so many headaches'. Now you tell me, if a person after graduating from one of the best of top 5 Management Institutes comments like that, Are we not manufacturing a generation of COOLIES for MNC's? Now the cream of story. I asked her what u expect your starting salary to be? He reply was Rs XX per month, I said okay I will pay you Rs xx/2 per month and with profit sharing on top of that. And should you continously be prudent, U can become a member of directors as well. And in case you make losses, I shall bear it and will provide training, her response was, why take all these headaches yaar. If this be the answer who knows the probably all the business models, cash flow and almost all constraints and variables of business, then imagine the case of Indians. Now what do i do and think? You again have the answer in front of you.
RE:RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 05, 2007 01:31 PM Permalink
there you go: http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=153762
RE:RE:RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 05, 2007 01:03 PM Permalink
Yes but how many people with xx/2 will you hire? say I am an electronics engineer, my strong areas are industrial automation and power electronics, and I wish to work in this domain and I dont mind designing robotic control systems for the rest of my life. Now can you name me one private organization which has the same motivation, and one private organization who is willing to invest in the products i make? Zilch, ill tell you why, because all these sectors are heavily controlled by the govt in India. they produce their stuff, have the labs, the mechanical fabrication units in place and the budget for the same. Small scale consumer items can cheaply be imported from china whereas heavy industry is a totally different game where numbers are high. products like iflex and tally have a gap they can fill in, they are "smaller" in scale and can be made larger with time, the same is not true for people from a engineering background. The investments are huge, and the biggest spender in this segment is the govt. So if you think i should persure my interests what should i do? Waqt waqt ki baat hai, market mein zyada financial software nahi hai so tally and iflex can fill the gap (iflex i blv is a citibank india software division's spin off so they already had a customer) what about places where the investment is huge? Now neither can i realize my dream biz, nor can i work in the same domain in India, so the best option is to be good at what you get and drop your dreams and chill out like your xx/2 friend. for example Not everyone becomes a singer in India, inspite of being heavily talented..
RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by gajendra kumar on Feb 03, 2007 01:54 PM Permalink
rightly said, but blame on our system, we indians are low risk takers and so is our education system which nips off any crteativity which is one of the important essence of an entrepreneur. still one cannot jump into conclusions at this juncture. gajendra.s.kumar.r.g.
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Seshadri on Feb 03, 2007 06:24 PM Permalink
Dear all,
The perception that Indians are willing servants is indeed gaining ground amongst many of us. To understand this, one has to see throught the mindset of the average Indian. What are his goals? How well is his family - both in terms of finance and literacy. For, the majority of our people do not enjoy the western comforts of life; this creates a craving to acquire the luxuries at any cost within a short span of time. Politicians have played on casteism blindly just to fatten their vote banks. It is also because of the culture differences and inherent fear about job security that an average Indian willingly accepts any abuse from the "Westerners". However there are also smart and sensible Indians who can match wits with any "Westerner" - in any sphere. Facts point in both the directions with the weightage favouring the negative. As discussed in earlier posts, there are other factors like education system, risk awareness, cultural inhibitions which play a crucial role. Those who dare may reap success in their way!
RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Sanjay Bhakat on Feb 01, 2007 11:25 AM Permalink
Dear Mr. Varghese, I fully agree with you, see our politicians, all SYCOPHANTS, and see the culture we are breeding around. We are jumping up and down abt India's IT prowess, but has anybody paid an attention what exatcly we are doing, we are just helping the Gora's to leverage on us for their profit by saving cost. Product line wise we don't even know how to develop a new product. All that our IT knows is to write codes for some MNC's and answer calls for them. And we bragging ourselves India is am emerging TIGER and all those.
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by Alok Dube on Feb 01, 2007 01:20 PM Permalink
the problem is that most CEOs are never good architects or solution finders. When you start a company you have a vision to do something, when you have people working for you, and technology moves fast you start realizing that while you may still have your free spirit of experimenting, you are answerable to the families of people who work for you, and that makes it hard. I used to work for one of the largest organizations in India (IT) and it was always fun to talk to the old timers on how they used to really play on the "front foot" to get their way going, but then those were the days they wore jeans to office and carried a spare attire with ties to meet customers....
RE:RE:India is a land of clerks and chaprasis!!!!
by on Feb 03, 2007 02:07 PM Permalink
Dear Sanjay, You are absolutly right on lack of Product knowledge or no knowledge on products among Indian IT People.We are just like building construction workers, who doesn't have a clue how a building looks like and what the plan is....IT People are well paid "Kooli"
