1) I agree that the BCCI should appeal because on what has been made publicly available, Proctor shouldn't have found Harbhajan guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" 2) I disagree that India played "in the true spirit of the game" as per Kumble given its own slow over rates, over appealing, deliberate time wasting, own players not walking 3) I agree that Australia also did not play "in the true spirit of the game" given its slow over rates, over appealing, own players not walking 4) I want the BCCI to allow Sachin to disclose his exact testimony to give transparency to the decision 5) I want Indians to acknowledge and admit that Harbhajan did racially abuse Symonds in India (as proved by Mr. Panicker) 6) I want Indians to realise that the umpiring was the root of all evil in this match, as it facilitated the players losing their cool, control and making bad decisions re: appeals, walking and general decency. 7) I want INdians to acknowledge the umpiring was BAD, not BIASED, as evidenced by the anti-Australian decisions in Sydney 8) I want Indians to acknowledge the inconsistency and fallacy of their comments that it is an anti-Indian conspiracy, given the decisions by Bucknor at Lords last year, decisions throughout the recent ODI series in India and past history - rather that it is just poor umpiring generally.
RE:My position
by navraj singh on Jan 08, 2008 09:07 PM Permalink
Hello Mister Michael, First of all Please try to explain how calling somebody a monkey is a racial abuse.Do you treat monkeys in australia as a backward human race? if thats what you do then i will agree with you that Harbhajan is a racist. And secondly Please explain how can australians claims to be a victim of sledging when they have abused players all over the world during their past 10 years of domination. its only when you guys start to loose or somebody who dares to look you in the eye and match yor aggression then you use such childish tactics. Its ok you are masters of sledging and now you are getting a dose of your own medicine so why complain? And then tell me how can ricky ponting claim to posses integrity in the game when he so blatantly refuses to admit a mistake rather than gracefully accepting it that yes it was grounded?
RE:My position
by raj on Jan 08, 2008 09:09 PM Permalink
FYI, micheal is a trained lawyer and knows what he speaks, as of now he's spent over 3 hours collecting all sides of the story for him, and his bunch of friends here. i think you should take some time to read his messages earlier. before commenting. well, ive been trying to answer to a lawyer, but my point isnt taken.
RE:RE:My position
by on Jan 08, 2008 09:33 PM Permalink
Dear Nav Raj
I just wrote a highly eloquent response but it was referred for abuse, so in summary: 1) monkey is complete and utter racial abuse. It stems from use to describe black people as a sub-human species. In Europe, it led to the "Kick it Out" movement to stamp racism out of football - search for it on the web if you have the time. It is routine in Europe for clubs whose fans do monkey chants or have banners about monkeys to be fined millions of EUROS, to have fans banned FOR LIFE and to be forced to play the next match in an empty stadium as punishment.
A number of black footballers have left international and European club games in tears at the abuse they have been receiving from crowds, knowing it is directed at their skin colour.
Yes I agree that it is odd for Australia to sledge then claim racial abuse. BUT, the world has determined that some forms of sledging are OK but that racial abuse is unacceptable IN ANY FORM.
As for Ponting, see my other post re: catches in relation to him grasping the ball in the air and never letting go, but grounding the ball before he gained control of his body (which is completely different to Latif who actually dropped the ball, rolled over and picked it up again knowing the umpire couldn't see!). Ponting's catch still was not complete, but when you read the rules and see the difference, you can see why he may have thought he caught it and controlled the ball in mid-air and the landing was irrelevant. Michael
RE:My position
by Sudhir Liberal on Jan 08, 2008 11:17 PM Permalink
@ Michael: Answers to Ur partial Summary: 2. What do u mean by deliberate time wasting? There were 72 overs allocated to India to see the day off...now where is slow over rates coming into picture? Over appealing is one way to pressuize a batsmen & self-encouragement-- World's greatest spin bowler Shame warne did it all the time... 3. The point you missed is that Aussie team not once but twice appealed for wrong catch when it was agreed by captains that fielder decision will be final if captain nods the same.. Ricky himself accepted that he verdicted Ganguly out on the basis of fielders statement...If Ricky himself doesnt seen it, shouldnt he asked for 3rd umpire (I m stating coz this was part of gentleman's agreement)..Also in case of Dhoni he allegedly appealed for catch which was not there... 4. No comments 5. Bhajji called Symo monkey coz he dint knew what is Symo interpreting...Once understood he said sorry. Chapter closed. Let me tell you first that calling someone monkey is not a 'big abuse' in India as u think..May be in Europe it might be but India it isnt. So where is raicsm came into picture...BTW discussion is on current test match not abt past. 6. If at crucial junctures so many bad decisions are given by umpires (including 3rd umpire!!) against one team only then to any sane person it will look biased. I doubt Aus will ever win 1 test match against India in India if umpire behave (suspiciously) that way.
RE:RE:My position
by Sudhir Liberal on Jan 08, 2008 11:24 PM Permalink
Contd.. 7. Anti Aus decision?? -- Ricky out on 10 odd run finally given out at 53 odd runs on LBW! Is it anti Aus decision? Dont blame Indians or any neutral observer if he feels that Umpiring is biased !! 8. I dint understood completely what you meant but my explanantion to 6 & 7 might clear ur thoughts.
Ok now tell me one more thing....why it always happen (in Aus only)..If one batsman is playing well against Australian team they he is always subjected to unfortunate umpiring errors.... This happened with Sachin throughout in yr 2001. & recently in Last series with Sangakara (2007).... Tell me one good reason why I shouldnt call Aussie team as CHEATS, FOUL MOUTHED CRY BABIES !!
RE:My position
by Michael Mammen on Jan 09, 2008 06:18 AM Permalink
Sudhir 2a) Deliberate time wasting. On previous days, the light deterioriated at Sydney. Many international sides are guilty of it, but it was clear India was slowing it down, knowing that if light became an issue later, it would cut the day short.
2b) Over-appealing Shane Warne perfected the art form which was created by the Indians and Sri Lankans and Pakistanis
3) Catches - i'm afraid you have misunderstood the captain's agreement. a) if a low catch is taken and the fielder tells the captain he caught it, that's it, OUT. b) the purpose of this is to avoid going to the 3rd umpire, because there are never sufficient camera angles to determine and anything low is given not out on principle.
5) Monkey - I agree that the chapter should be closed - but it is still relevant to context because people are still claiming that a) Harbhajan would never say monkey and b) Harbhajan wouldn't know it was offensive to Symonds. The past makes it clear that if proved, Harbhajan must be suspended. The issue of proof is dealt with spearately.
6a) You must have a very short memory of Indian umpiring history. Go back to the 70s-90s.
7) I am not saying decisions were biased against Australia, just that they were WRONG.
8) The umpiring wasn't biased against India, it was just incompetent.
9) It only happens in Australia? Think back to the recent ODI series in India and Karthik getting an edge, not given, going on to win the game.
