1) monkey is complete and utter racial abuse. It stems from use to describe black people as a sub-human species. In Europe, it led to the "Kick it Out" movement to stamp racism out of football - search for it on the web if you have the time.
2) It is routine in Europe for clubs whose fans do monkey chants or have banners about monkeys to be fined millions of EUROS, to have fans banned FOR LIFE and to be forced to play the next match in an empty stadium as punishment.
3) A number of black footballers have left international and European club games in tears at the abuse they have been receiving from crowds, knowing it is directed at their skin colour.
4) Yes I agree that it is odd for Australia to sledge then claim racial abuse. BUT, the world has determined that some forms of sledging are OK but that racial abuse is unacceptable IN ANY FORM.
5) We know beyond a doubt that Harbhajan said it before, Symonds felt he didn't know how offensive it was, so he warned him that there would be trouble if it was said again.
6) I agree that the evidence made public is insufficient to convict Harbhajan, so the appeal should sort that out easily enough, that's what the appeal is for. Or else Proctor has other evidence which we'll see eventually.
Either way, racism has no place in sport. If the cricket nations prefer, ban all sledging and turn the microphones up. But what will Sreesanth and Andre Nel do??? :)
RE:Monkey Magic
by on on Jan 09, 2008 06:25 AM Permalink
yes yes yes.. most of us know that.
40. Only Australia has determined Sledge is ok. And that is unacceptable and should be eliminated. This incident was due for year and it finally happened
5). Only you know beyond the doubt that harbhajan said it before. We don't..
Please take a break and read Peter Roebuck or Aggers.. I hope you know who they are..
RE:Monkey Magic
by Michael Mammen on Jan 09, 2008 06:39 AM Permalink
See the problem is that people are reading my comments and mistaking it for some pro-Australia defence of their actions.
As I've made blatantly clear, I also found the Australians' behaviour churlish, childish, without grace, without humility and outside the spirit of the game.
Quote from Agnew "They can give it, but can't take it. That, of course does not offer any defence for racism" (if proved of course)
Agnew then says "I am going to throw in Sreesanth's name as an example of an Indian cricketer who has often - and recently - gone well beyond the spirit of cricket: it is not purely an Australian thing"
Roebuck today "BY NO means can the Indians escape censure for the unpleasantness that took place in cricket's dark hour at the SCG...India has a right to demand a second hearing, but it is hardly fit and proper for the entire tour to shudder to a halt in the meantime...Of course vociferous fanatics will remain loyal but only fools play to that gallery...India's top-order deficiencies were also anticipated. It also bowled its overs so slowly that the match finished past exhaustion time...None of these matters ought to be forgotten. India must not merely complain about the Australians."
As for Harbhajan - I'm willing to trust the Australians' word when it is corroborated by Mr. Panicker who has written with a fair degree of vitriol on the matter.
RE:Monkey Magic
by himadri chakraborty on Jan 09, 2008 07:10 AM Permalink
Michael , I can agree to you on some counts and you have presented a more or less rational debate . However , I think all of us are missing a very simple point which has nothing to do with Cricketing laws as such . Even a person who has definitely committed murder cannot be prosecuted or sentenced unless his crime is proved beyond all reasonable doubts on the basis of irrefutable evidence . Here we are stunned by the fact that Mike Procter has taken a decision based on no such solid evidence ,not even a lip reading clue ,let alone audio clips . His decision is based on Hayden and Ponting's claims whose integrity is no more than a toilet full of shit , while choosing to indicate that Sachin is a liar . The question is not whether Bhajji is guilty or not , the question is whether the trial was fair . As any man of justice will say to you , it is always better to ensure that you are not punishing an innocent even if that means that you might be letting some offenders free . Regarding the use of the phrase 'Monkey' , working in UK our European colleagues often refer to friends and other colleagues as 'Cheeky monkey' or 'stop monkeying around ' . Do I feel racially insulted coming from a white colleague , definitely not , as I perfectly understand that it has been said in friendly banter . Hence the circumstances of a comment are also to be judged at the same time and taken into proper perspective . I think if we had all heard Bhajji making the comment then we would not have stood
In latin there is a phrase - res ipsa loquitor. The evidence speaks for itself. You, my friend, speak for yourself.
And I'd be hoping that at least 600,000,000 of your counterparts are cringing reading your words.
There are many on this forum who are here because we love the game and want what's best for it (differing opinions notwithstanding) - heaven help India if your way of thinking takes hold!
RE:Monkey Magic
by Indian on Jan 09, 2008 06:46 AM Permalink
Mr. Mammen: Firstly wipe it off your mind (and completely wipe it off if you possibly can) that the "monkey" business in India has anything to do with racism.
An average Indian fan doesn't even know that Symonds is black. He is a lot lot fairer than most Indians. For an average Indian fan, he is just an Aussie. I am sure more than 90% of Indian fans won't even know where he originally hails from. So please get that right.
The Indian fans just didn't tolerate his boorish behaviour and arrogance on field, and took to his appearance, especially his white lipstick. And that is (contrary to whoever, wherever believes otherwise) the only explanation for those taunting episodes.
Bhajji probably taunted him with "monkey" in India just to needle him, and he has every right to do that, the same as every Aussie has been needling all opponents post-Bradman era.
It's just that Aussies have devised a fantastic way to block anyone needling one-of-their-own, by labelling as "racist" anybody who makes fun of their precious Roy.
