That's right nothing has changed. India won the world cup in 1983 with a mediocre team, some good players, some ordinary and good fielding only as a flash. They still think with the same strategy of just bowling and containing, fielding like in a test match and packing with batsmen to play through initial overs and try and win the game. Other teams have gone from there. Newzealand and Srilanka devised stategy to hit out in the initial overs and it paid for them with NZ reaching semis in 1992 and Srilanka in 1996. South Africa gave definition for fielding and Australia in maintaining the higher run rate at all times even with the fall of wickets. We are still following our 80s strategy and no wonder it is working out. Dravid says we can place the non fielders in non critical positions to compensate. Play 4 openers since u are not sure of who will ever fire and guys like Agarkar who is for ever and never reached the top. Tendulkar is to play around the team but he is never around. You can only except a flash of win somewhere not in regularity. I can bet that they can be beaten by Bangladesh again if they play the same team.
Mr Arvind , this article would have made sense if it had been written at the start of the world cup..or before India was kicked out by other nations who played better cricket than us..I am surprised such junk got printed as it has no relevance now..or would you have written this had India been in the super eight..no then Harbhajan would have been the best spinner, sourav the best batsman etc. etc, we should petition Mr. Pawar to include you in the selection team so we would always have the right players.....get over it smarty...we lost because the others team played better cricket than us and we will continue doing so..unless we stop treating cricket as a 'religion' and players as 'gods' and start treating it as a shitty sport which the rest of the world doesn%u2019t care about
Chappel should take part of the responsibility. When appointed as coach it was told that he would be given more power than just a coach which meant having his word on team selection. Before Worldcup when India beat WIndies and Srilanka in India he claimed that this is the best possible team for the world cup. He should have resigned if he didnt feel good on the selection putting his ethics first rather than going with Dravid. Doesnt mean that he should be sent out but can be done if we find a better coach. I would say a more contemporary coach (someone like Tom Moody or Steve Waugh) would do good since they were the new set of one day players.
RE:Chappel's forthcoming books
by anupama singh on Apr 04, 2007 12:49 AM Permalink
few more books to add... 1.How to destroy team India in 2years. 2.Mission defeat accomplished.
RE:Chappel's forthcoming books
by Sukhoi on Apr 04, 2007 12:58 AM Permalink
Are you guys going to be publishers or contractors for those books? Enough is enough!!
I am a unbiased fan of cricketer who support Ian and Greg Chappel for their comments. I have seen quite a few of your rmessages where u have blamed Greg for India's debacle. Also Ian too was a target for saying that Sachin is over the hill.
First let's discuss Sachin issue. Don't u fellow indians think that Sachin is past his prime? He never fires in important matches and most of the runs he has amassed has come against weaker oppositions and that too on the dusty tracks of the subcontinent which is next to nothing. That's the reason I suppose he always gets clean bowled whenever he faces good bowlers on good quality pitches and u call this talent... rubbish... If India with a population of 1 billion cannot produce 11 good players then I would better say stop playing cricket thereby preventing further ignominy to this beautiful game. The other players Ganguly, Sehwag, Dravid, etc etc are an awful lot and I don't feel it's even worth commenting on them. They r the dirt in cricketing world. But alas how will we Indians accept this fact. We have a tendency to make a demi god out of everyone as our nation of 1 billion hardly produces any good sportsmen and so we have a situation where we got to make do with whatever we have. See our results in any other games viz football, Olympics etc it's nauseating. I know I would receive lots of negative feedback for this but then I don't mind bcoz ur a coterie of people who just can't digest the truth and keep building castles in the air.
Now coming to Greg, I don't understand what's the heck going on? I would like to tell u one thing "You can take a horse to a pond but u cannot make it to drink the water." The coach can only go so far; it's upto the players to take up the responsibility and prove their mettle out on the field. Aussies never make such comments about coaches or facilities etc etc as they r a confident lot who know they can beat anyone and everyone on any given day. This sort of cribbing is done by only meek individuals who just cannot make it happen in any field, leave alone cricket. If Greg wants to experiment u call it as disturbing the balance of the team. What bloody shit balance this team has? I wish to know that first of all. In Australia a player is immediately removed if he does not perform over a period of time. In India even if a person is not performing for months still no one can question him if he has past records to support. What a bloody system is this. It sucks. Remember one thing. India has never been a potent force in international cricket and it will never be unless and until politics is separated from game. But again I repeat whatever is said will fall on deaf ears. Nothing's gonna change on the ground and all this is hot air.
RE:Ian Chappel was right
by Sam Raj on Apr 03, 2007 11:41 PM Permalink
Not sure boss what you were trying to say here, if the Horse was drinking even after taking it to the pond, which means the horse was not feeling the thirst, then why did you take it to the pond in the first place. Take those horses who are feeling thirst, once they fill their stomach%u2019s and can deliver it.
Also, if it is up to the players to perform then why do you need the coaches from foreign and why do need to pay them so much money, don't you think we were excepting something from these highly paid coaches. otherwise, I will ask my street dog to coach the team if it is up to the players to play and win.... where is all that management, captaincy, coaching crap gone then????
RE:Ian Chappel was right
by Sukhoi on Apr 03, 2007 11:53 PM Permalink
>> if the Horse was drinking even after taking it >> to the pond, which means the horse was not >> feeling the thirst
Good point! That's what I have mentioned earlier - There should be Fire in the Belly!!
>> if it is up to the players to perform then >> why do you need the coaches from foreign and >> why do need to pay them so much money
You are seeing in a wrong angle (should I say patriotic?). Long term foreign coaches are very much needed for the sake of augmenting technique & quality.
Is that possible with an Indian Coach angle? I don't think so. Here are the examples:-
#1 Anju Bobby George #2 Sania Mirza
And, did you know how Anand attained the World #1 height? He always play with Seconds (foreigners)
RE:Ian Chappel was right
by Subhasish Ghosh on Apr 04, 2007 01:34 AM Permalink
Am not sure if you have your ducks in a row, dude! All the payers who went to WC were in form except Sehwag and Pathan. They put up a good show in all departments till about the warm up matches. So how does your adage on horses fit here?
If you follow Chappel's coaching story, you will realize, he came in here more as a revolutionary trying to 'change the world'. Often his hype overshadowed his acehveiments in coaching. Creditably he did have a brief sucess with an innovative concept of a 'versatile' team. Pathan, Raina, Kaif and likes were his beacons of hope. But sadly his plans backfired when the opponent teams started sorting these 'surprise packages' out! And I am still at odds to beleive that a person like Chappel had no plan B. He continued to hold to the plans trying to find a way out with what is popular as 'experiments' trying to look for options to fit his scheme of things. There is no denying the toll it took on some key players. After all it as an objective game not a circus.
You were pretty harsh on our teams' capabilities. I doubt how well you can keep a ball in two hands let alone play cricket, but you sure are farfetched in your decision to judge players. Leave the judgement to the pros please.
As a fan you may have view of how they played on a given day, but the Indian team that went was the best that could have got there. What caused the failure is still a mystery. But what Greg has started, post debacle, is both infuriating and disgusting and speaks of a bottom dweller mind frame . I do not know your basis of high esteem for Aussies in general, but this is both unprofessional and hurts Indian cricket to an extent that has never happened before. And as an Indian I think I would bemmore worried about my nation's esteem than how an Aussie feels about it. A coach who leaks mails, discusses dressing room politics in public, criticizes players PERSONALLY, uses his finger to express his feeling to the people, sure cannot have the best in mind for Indian cricket.
The assessment of Indian players and what caused the failure may be a seperate story, but this man is best left amongst Kangaroos.
RE:Ian Chappel was right
by Savio J on Apr 04, 2007 02:26 AM Permalink
Subhasish and Sudhir -
Without getting personal, I would say that we Indians defend our idols to the point of stupidity! If you were to detach yourself as a cricket fan/lover and objectively look at Sachin, Sehwag and Ganguly as just sportsman playing the national sport then by all measures they are sub-par and deserve to be dropped. Unfortunately we are a nation that has been raised to worship these stars, and stars they surely were when they performed. But at this juncture they are past their prime, their confidence (appears) low and unless the spectators don't attest to this fact, the media and the selectors will keep them in.
>>Anupama Singh said >>SO LET THE LITTLE MASTER DECIDE WHEN HE THINKS TO HANG UP HIS BOOTS!!!
If this is a merit based selection process then Sachin%u2019s clout in the committee should not be the deciding factor of his existence in the team! We give our heroes this imperialistic freedom to do as they choose and are shocked when such a catastrophe happens!! Now we are looking for fall guys at every level and if Chappell is the problem then get rid of him and bring in an Indian coach like Amarnath. But would that automatically resolve the root cause of the problem - our lack of fitness, our ageing players who get more clumsy with each series, our corrupt selectors and last but not the least, the media and ad agencies who try to milk these players until the last drop regardless of their talent being washed out ages ago?? Our cricket is no better than our Bollywood - all style, little substance!!
RE:[object]
by Subhasish Ghosh on Apr 04, 2007 07:10 PM Permalink
Savio Appreciate your advice. I have tried to abstain from a passionate response or atleast that is my intent. But the post I was responding to is more of "You Indians dont know what you are doing" types smelling of an NRI ( I am one myself and that smell is one too familiar). His uncondinitional devout of Aussies and univocal rebuke of Indian players who actually slog and made a mark in the game to rise passions with us is unacceptable to me. I pride my country and accept failures, but dont demolish acheivements because they failed or go about rebuking people in general.
I am not debate the fact that the key players underperformed and deserve to be sacked if necessary. However I do not think taking a cue from Aussie or anybody else is necessary to comprehend that.
RE:Ian Chappel was right
by Subhasish Ghosh on Apr 04, 2007 07:00 PM Permalink
"Ducks in a row" means well organized. I was alluding to Sudhir Iyer's use of the saying "You can take a horse to a pond but u cannot make it to drink the water."
My sentence meant, that his evaluation was not measured with facts.
RE:Ian Chappel was right
by Dharmapad Mishra on Apr 04, 2007 12:13 AM Permalink
To an extent you are right dude. But let's stop blaming players only. The coach's also reposible if not equally. I do accept the fact that Greg was an awesome cricketer in his days but not every cricketer can be equally good in every aspect of the game.If it's true then Tendulkar would have been the best captain of India; and we all know that it's not even close to correct.But honestly, we can't say that we had a shity composition when it comes to a team. Australia could be an exception coz they are mentally tough. Believe you me, composition is one thing and mental toughness is another. We lose matches coz we are not taught the mental part of the game. Our players pump in the gym and play basket-ball etc. during the training, which is good.But it was always Greg's job to spend time and focus more on the mind-frame game rather building visibly sullen physique of our players. Pick any player and please let me know one thing for real: "Do they actually look like a sportmen". They resemble models and they are good at acting, I recon. Anyway, good luck guys and hope a lot of things 'said & unsaid' happen for them. Paddy
RE:Ian Chappel was right
by anupama singh on Apr 04, 2007 12:54 AM Permalink
TO MUCH WRITTEN ABOUT SACHIN THAT HE SHOULD RETIRE.I TOTALLY DISAGREE AS HE STILL HAS 3-4YEARS OF CRICKET LEFT IN HIM.WHO THE HELL IS THAT IAN AND ATHERTON TO DECIDE ABOUT THE GREAT SACHIN. AS THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT FAME AND MONEY AS THE REASON THAT HE IS PLAYING CRICKET FOR INDIA.FOR THERE MEMORY THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT SACHIN HAS 100 TIMES MORE MONEY THAN IAN CHAPPEL AND 10 TIMES BETTER RECORD THAN BOTH OF THEM. SO LET THE LITTLE MASTER DECIDE WHEN HE THINKS TO HANG UP HIS BOOTS!!! AT LAST ABOUT RECORDS MUCH HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT HIM THAT WHENEVER SACHIN SCORES CENTURY INDIA LOOSES!!!!!FOR THERE INFORMATION.... 29 CENTURY SCORED BY HIM INDIA HAS WON,AND JUST LOST 11 MATCHES WHEN HE HAD SCORED 100....PLUS SACHIN AVERAGES 75 RUNS IN FINALS IN WHICH INDIA HAD WON,AND OVERALL HE HAS A AVERAGE OF 48RUNS IN FINALS IN WHICH INDIA HAD PLAYED. SO ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO RAISES FINGER AGAINST THIS GREAT MAN,PLZ READ HIS STATS FIRST. delete
all the person related to indian cricket can take a lesson from pakistan... they all took full responsibility of debacle... PCB suspended each and every player, inzy tool blame on his shoulder, committee resigned... but here in india, putting blame on other and forming a group to save other is still going on... this article shows only players are responsible, its true that it is player who win and lose the game, then why r we paying so much to coach, and why are so much drama going on in BCICI... BCICI should feel shame and suspend each and every player until next tournament... everything should be started from scratch... and one last thing chappel should be sent back to australia as soon as possible...
Why didn't we play well enough? Well I don't think India has won a tournament overseas since 1985. There is a bit of history to it. There are obviously some reasons. I am not prepared to go into them at this stage.
===============================================
Apart from this, there are a bunch of other things that have happened since Chappell took over. 1. With pretty much the same team, India went to the finals in 2003 but made a crash exit early in 2007. 2. Compared to John Wright's reign, there has been more friction and uneasiness in the team since Chappell took over. 3. During interviews, Chappell doesn't come across as a likeable individual trying to make things work. He comes across as harsh, rude, and offensive.
RE:There's something wrong about Chappell !
by Sukhoi on Apr 03, 2007 11:47 PM Permalink
>> It takes time to change system, specially in >> country like India.
Those dumb asses in BCCI (refering non cricketers) will never change!!
I really doubt if there would be any change (big) other than sacking Chappel, and some other players (poor fall guys).
Good job Arvind. Imagine approach by Hayden, Gilly, Smith and Jayasurya vs that of our Saurav Ganguly. All the others try to score century or better because this is one day cricket, we need people who are fit to play one day cricket and score at a good pace. Imagine if Australia had failed the way India had in world cup, what would be the result ? Ricky Ponting would have lost his captaincy and 5 or 6 players would be dumped for fresh blood. So, we need to do the same thing for Indian cricket.
Let Dravid be the captain for the next year or so before he can do the knowledge transfer etc to Yuvraj or some other youngster. From the current Indian team we need to remove the following players from our ODI team: Ganguly, Tendulkar, Harbajan, Shewag, Agarkar, Dhoni and Irfan Pathan. Retain Yuvraj and Dravid because they are very good batsmen and can play in any surfaces. After a year if Dravid plays like Ganguly or Tendulkar then sack Dravid from ODI team, there is no place for emotions or regionalism when selecting the indian team.
Let Dinesh Karthik be the keeper, bring in Piyush Chawla (going by the initial reports he is a good bowler and not bad with bat even, a great asset at number 7), Manoj Tewary (A guy who always stands alone and shines ), Rohit Sharma, Badrinath, retain Uthappa, Zaheer, Ranade Bose, Munaf, Ramesh Powar, Sree Santh, pace bowling youngster from Kashmir (dont know his name). This should be a good team to begin with, I have not added Raina or Kaif in this because they have been given enough chances, so, let us know give chance to others.
Bottom line, we may loose a few matches to begin with, but on the long run we will be successful. Also, I read about Zee TVs talent search program, we can bring some ppl from that cup too.
Dada, Tendulkar, Dravid, Harbajan should be retained in our test side.
RE:Brilliant Article
by jose ferns on Apr 04, 2007 12:51 AM Permalink
In the match against bermuda..Leverock took an outstanding catch..and another one to dismiss shewag..but the same type catch , ganguly dropped!! i mean he did not attempt it..if ganguly fielding was pathic..his running between wickets was worse!! Does this chap can lead india???? He should be thrown in the Bay of Bengal..
RE:Brilliant Article
by karan on Apr 03, 2007 10:44 PM Permalink
nice to see someone following ranji cricket, but why do u want to lose for one year when u can win with dada as captain. all u have to do is change the captain he will do the rest with the same team, with or without a coach.sheer arrogance thatz his forte. dont u ever forget that dada is the best captain u had in ur cricketing history
Chappell must take the blame for India's debacle in the world cup. He is the coach and by virtue of his position he should assume part of the blame. With power comes responsibility. I will be glad to hear him accept the blame(for once).
When a team loses and gets into rebuilding mode, the coach should be the first to go. The fact that India lost against Bangladesh and Srilanka (poorly I might add) clearly shows poor strategy. The blame for the failure falls first on the coach, then on the captain and then on the other players (in that order). The team needs to be built from scratch and some tough decisions have to be taken...
The article tries to wink at the actual responsibilites of the coach by absolving him and squarely placing the blame on the players. Let me be very clear : The players style of play cannot be condoned. However, the coach is supposed to inspire the team and make them believe that his strategy will work. Clearly and absolutely, Chappell has failed in this regard. So has Rahul Dravid in his responsibility as a Captain. By ignoring this quintessential trait that a coach is required to possess, the author has only exposed the hollowness of his article.
I would like to reiterate that the first step towards rebuilding the team is to show the door to the current coach. Ultimately a coach's success or failure boils down to how much the team respects him and how well it performs under him. John Wright passed this litmus test but Greg Chappell failed it miserably.
