Because Buddha attained gyan in Bihar, so China should claim Bihar as well. Good logic these guys have. It will be fun to see how these Chinese handling maoists.
It is strange to understand how a Tibetan claim on Tawang automatically translates into a Chinese claim on Tawang.
As for Chinese Nationalism,our pro-China left loonies are doing more for the Chinese National cause than the Indian cause in the name of Universalism and Universal Brotherhood.The Chinese Reds have long given up these bogus fads.
Mr. Raman in this column has been a good reporter rather than an opinion-peddler. have
RE:By the logic that one Dalai Lama was born in Tawang....
by raj on May 17, 2008 11:13 AM Permalink
absolutely, we have a claim over mt kailash! and mansarovar!
RE:By chinese logic, Tibet can not be chinese
by raj on May 17, 2008 11:14 AM Permalink
because the kings signed in during independance that theyd like to be within india
RE:By chinese logic, Tibet can not be chinese
by on May 19, 2008 07:52 AM Permalink
so. why should indian belong to indian? indian should belong to uk because there are so many laws before.
I assume the 'sting' will come in Pt 2 & 3, because Mr Raman is no China fan. The essence of this article is, the preception changes, when one is visiting places and meeting people, rather than make assumptions of what 'you' felt is right. Every breed of people on this planet is different, and it is not right for one to compare them across the board or universally. When travelling to different places, we learn and understand a lot about people, and how we preceived them in our mind. Every person (read breed or race) is different, and there are positive and negative side to all of them. We should learn to accept them and not downgrade ourselves !!! For example, one of the strongest quality we as Indians have is 'sentimental & emotional' attachment towards our family - which we may not find in other parts of the world.
It is hard to name a single neighbour of China (except it's stooges Pakistan & N Korea) that China has not fought a war with or has good relations. They claim everything in their neighbourhood as their own.
Though India did not fare well in 1962 war, i was thrilled to learn that it's tiny neighbour Vietnam defeated it in 1979!
RE:China and her neighbours
by XianYe on May 13, 2008 05:13 PM Permalink
defeated it? who defeated whom? your souce of information? have you ever visited vietnam and talked to the vietnamese? was it not a fact that the WHOLE of vietnam was mobilised? was it not a fact that the vietnameses thought that the PLA was gonna run over henoi and the city was partly evacuated? listen dude. the PLA trashed the vietnamese army in 1978 the way the PLA thrashed the indian army. the only difference was that while hardly any PLA soldiers died in indian, quite a few perished in vietnam. the vietnamese were better fighters than the indians, but nothing the PLA can't deal with. the PLA withdrew after occupying the capitals of the three vietnamese provinces borddering/close to China, the way the PLA did in 1962. get your facts before you bark.
RE:China and her neighbours
by Sankshipt on May 14, 2008 03:32 AM Permalink
PLA withdrew in 1962, as they were scared by the fast changing pace in Indian political consolidation which swerved sharply towards US. They realised US N-umbrella, plus airforce support would mean a war on scale many time bigger then the one on 38th Parallel.
India defence forces were then in transition stage from being a colonial Army to a national Army. Now times have changes, war technology has changed, the doctrines have got upgraded, and there is mega destruction.
Make more sense for you Chinkos to take legality and human rights issues seriously. Recently India had taken a decision not to make military supplies to Vietnam and other friendly countries. That policy may change.
RE:China and her neighbours
by linux linux on May 15, 2008 02:03 AM Permalink
Occupying 3 provisional Vietnamese capitals after sending in Lakhs of troops. At the same time Vietnam inflicted heavy casualty and throughly and soundly beat the Chinese in 1979. XianYe needs to face the truth
RE:RE:China and her neighbours
by XianYe on May 15, 2008 08:27 PM Permalink
Heavy casualty? Heavier than that suffered by the Vietnamese? I bet you got your source from reports and publications of an American origin. As a matter of fact, and for most Indians who happen to read English, the only window to the outside world is western media or biased reporting by the Indian press for domestic consumption. I don't blame the Americans for falsifying the outcome of the Sino-Vietnamese border conflict. All after, the Americans received a bloody nose from the Vietcons who were supported and at times enforced, by the Chinese army in disguise. After the 2nd WW, the Americans fought two wars in which they faced the Chinese. The Americans lost both!
RE:RE:RE:China and her neighbours
by raj on May 17, 2008 11:20 AM Permalink
yu must be an illiterate if yu say that indians read only english! we have a healthy vernacular and even english reporting media which is totally different from the west!
RE:China and her neighbours
by omkar janardhan dubey on May 17, 2008 10:46 AM Permalink
Mr. XianYe, what about Japanese when they did everything to you Chinkos during II WW?And your so called broad mindset still can't forget that. So stop blowing your trumpet & see how Japanese has traumayised you people.Hats off to Japan.
RE:China and her neighbours
by Ramesh Kumar on May 17, 2008 11:22 AM Permalink
Yeah, it is no secret how Indian army fared against an unexpected rogue attack from "bhai bhai" chin shit-heads. Alas, Indians had not learnt their lesson even after a string of betrayals from foreigners starting from the invaders to "businessmen". So, they foolishly believed that animals called chinese are actually human beings. But beasts being beasts, they attack when you least expect. And then, what's wrong with having our own news-sources? Will the chin shit-heads stop believing the false propaganda (in the name of news/history) that their commie government is spreading? Let's mutually believe in our own respective sides of the story. Your false sense of prestige being a chin shit-head (for that's what I believe you are) is well-placed in your own context. So be it. The fact remains that chins are eternally inferior to Indians. Budhism is the live example. Not many Indians may be Budhists in fact but they are so in thought. How else will we believe in beasts called chins? How many chins know why Budha founded Budhism? The growth you show today is not healthy but cancerous. Only that can be so fast. Regarding the chin-shit that china is so stronger than India in military terms, well, what will you proudly claim after unleashing a nuclear war on India (supposing it happens). It's no secret that a nuclear war in the current world order will spell doom to the whole planet. Let's not be naive enough to think that china can threaten us with those show-piece weapons.
RE:China and her neighbours
by Brij D on May 13, 2008 10:31 PM Permalink
XianYe is stupidly parroting his indoctrination. Against both India and Vietnam, China struck in a surprise action using large number of troops at a time when the elite divisions of both India and Vietnam military were busy elsewhere - India on the western borders with Pakistan, and Vietnam in Cambodia. In the first skirmish in the 1962 war, 50 Indian soldiers fought 1000 Chinese soldiers at Yumtso La, and won the fight with 25 Indian deaths against 33 Chinese ones. Only 24,000 Indian troops fought that war, and a few hundred troops died on either side. The Chinese used far greater numbers of elite troops in the surprise attack. The threat of US intervention made the Chinese declare a ceasefire and withdraw.
RE:RE:China and her neighbours
by XianYe on May 15, 2008 08:16 PM Permalink
It is good that, after 46 years, you are still living in wet dreams. You don't need me to tell you how the India Army fared in 1962. All you need do is read one of the many books written by various authors, including those from the UK and the US, the usual pro-India sources. Your big ego won't change the history that's been inscribed on your national psyche. The truth always hurts!
RE:China and her neighbours
by raj on May 17, 2008 11:19 AM Permalink
truth always hurts indeed! no chinese can ever digest the fact at how the world looks at them. i feel sorry for the citizens of china , how their government has controlled, hoodwinked them and kept them in a state of flux.
india was defeated in 1962 when india offered peace and china was aggressive. that just proves what a bunch of expansionists the government, no country is safe from china who has aggression like the nazis.
and ironically its you who are affected by the propaganda the government instills, rather brainwashes! the world sees china in quite the other way, a hegemony, a country that has poor human rights record. you dont believe that ... google the "tank man" in yur own baidu.com and google.com... dude yur propaganda will fall flat smacking on your face!
RE:China and her neighbours
by Sankshipt on May 14, 2008 04:13 AM Permalink
The weakness in Indian army was at senior officers level. The individual soldiers and officers in the front fought bravely. This doctrine level responsiveness is now world class.
People should understand the article before commenting. Mr Raman has only quoted what the Chinese say/feel. Nowhere has he justified them. The question/answer format used is clear indication that he is only reporting what he heard the Chinks say during his visit in justification of Tawang... is he seconding them or justifying??? Read well before spewing venom and hatred at a respected journalist.
While respecting the impressionistic views of Mr Raman,a veteran columnist/prolific writer,I may say that national pride comes out of national prosperity.Pride is some thing to be felt over some achievement & Chinese achievements are economic prosperity and military power.So effectively,their strength lies in their economic prosperity & military power which make them feel proud to the extent of aiming at dominance in Asia if not the whole world.Raman himself said elsewhere that their pride, interalia ,is "over their achievements".Indian mind set replete with "prejudices, suspicions & ways of thinking"is a matter of reciprocation of similar things by China too.We need not be more loyal and too much exuberant than them.And cooperation again is a matter of reciprocation. Expecting us to develop rapid cooperation with China which however would continue to hold our territory & go for amazing infrastructure activities including laying of roads in frontier areas abetting Tibet is too much on the part of Mr Raman-it is beyond the comprehension of an average Indian.Pakisthan is our known arch enemy while China with its simmering spite still continues its animosity in its heart of heart although outwardly it looks like a proverbial "good boy".This feeling cannot be stated to be emerging out of non-liberation of Indian mind set.We can write any thing & every thing in abstract terms of flowery language,but the fact remains that China cannot be believed with its outward countenance.
Keeping other countries in a perputal state of suscpicion is another of China's strategic conspiracy.
I fail to understand the Mr. Raman toeing the reason for Tawang belonging to China. By the same token of spiritual extrapolation most of Central and Far East Asia should belong to India since Budhism was born in India. Or, likewise all territories from Georgia to Ulan Bator should belong to Bagdhad, Riyad or Istanbul!
All that Glitters may not be Gold , Mr. Raman. Empires often display their ill-gotten wealth pompously to conceal the darkness within. We have seen brutality glorified in the ampitheatres of Rome, the gory World Wars in a "nothing more to conquest 20th century Europe" or a the Giant Killing Japan; and an overwhelming fear in our software streamlined societies of today.
Please do not go overboard in singing paens of what is actually decadent and morally hollow.These glittering symbols are the minimum they have done counter their own alter ego that questions their hypocracy since their Cultural Revolution. And it is the same with all nations that aspire to build a showcase beyond compare - Paris, New York, Hong Kong, Dubai or Mumbai.
RE:Mr. Raman and the Chinese
by Devaiah Palekanda on May 13, 2008 10:42 AM Permalink
You are right Pradip. Let Not Mr raman go by what he has been shown by his close chibnse freinds. There are so many inter contrdictions inside China , a day will come soon when it will go the USSR way. Then i will talk to Mr Raman.
Also Germany got disintegrtaded after Berlin Olympics, USSR got disintegrated after Moscow Olympics. Now its the chinese turn,. Are they going for a hattrick?????
RE:Mr. Raman and the Chinese
by sibby mathews on May 13, 2008 11:23 AM Permalink
For an Indian, talking sacrosanctly about the 'darkness within' any other society is immediately analogous to the pot calling the kettle black.
RE:RE:Mr. Raman and the Chinese
by Manish Shah on May 14, 2008 04:53 PM Permalink
Xian,
If China (& Chinese /Tibentians) have a problem in accepting Tawang as a part of India because one of the Dalai Lama's was born there, how can they accept Buddhism as a religion itself, since it was born in India?
RE:Mr. Raman and the Chinese
by omkar janardhan dubey on May 17, 2008 10:50 AM Permalink
Well said Mr.Manish & now Mr.XianYe do you have an answer for this?Or have you gone to Pakistan to ask them to reply for you?
RE:Mr. Raman and the Chinese
by Ramesh Kumar on May 17, 2008 10:56 AM Permalink
I am sure XianYe would not want to answer this question what with Chinese thinking which is highly focussed as compared to "muddled" Indian thinking...
