RE:My experience with Muslims
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:46 AM Permalink
their faces are usually pale ..coz they usually dont use bathroom.. save water and go 'green' :)
RE:RE:My experience with Muslims
by ss gpal on Jun 19, 2008 02:15 PM Permalink
No sir the moslems use always after crapping odd number of stones only as demonstrated eloquently by their prophet some time back.How odd one would cry out.To keep looking for only odd number of stones. I would look for 99 stones to ...
RE:My experience with Muslims
by smash on Jun 18, 2008 04:55 AM Permalink
I bet you will find at least 99% of hindus will have the same exprience as urs....
RE:My experience with Muslims
by Virgo on Jun 18, 2008 06:18 AM Permalink
No need to insult all the muslims in India if a certain percentage of them think they are pakis. Do you want to insult patriotic muslims like our ex-president Abdul Kalam?
RE:My experience with Muslims
by Virgo on Jun 18, 2008 05:11 AM Permalink
That is the problem! There are many Indian muslims who consider themselves Pakis and not Indians. I would estimate their number to be about 40% of the Muslim population. The remaining 60% have a responsibility to educate these wayward members of their community or ask them to move to Pakistan.
RE:My experience with Muslims
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 04:43 AM Permalink
Such kind of Muslims will at the end be "na ghar ka, na ghat ka".
Since, those who cannot love their own country, how can they love the SUPERSET, which is the ALL PERVADING GOD or divinity. Infact, they love pakistan out of Hatred to India, and this is the first and fore most quality that Holy Quran teaches Muslims to forgo, and they could not do so, and they failed to be a good muslim by not Loving India, and by hating India.
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 04:40 AM Permalink
GOD can be perceived. Infact, since GOD is all pervading and with in and beyond the creation, just like you exist wiht in your dream and in your selves.
By using ways and means, that are limited to mere material level, the aspects of GOD that are beyond the Material level cannot be perceived. Of course, there can be some proofs that can be given at the material level to prove that GOD or the universal counciousness exists.
For example, in recent times, modern science proved that Mind is more powerful than Body, which means Mind is powerful than Matter. Also proven is that, the thoughts originating in the mind are nothing but the energy concentrations that are the driving force behind that body level actions of an individual. Modern Science also proved that all matter is nothing but a solidified form of energy by way of Einsteins E=mc2 formula.
This means, that universal clounciousness is the reason in whom, the universal Mind exists, and in this universal Mind, the thought of material level creation arises. Just like the way, in your speck of counciousness OR soul, your Mind exists and with in your Mind, the thoughts are solodified by using the material aspects of the universal Mind.
Science, only could answer so much with in its limits, since its still evolving, and also it will never lead you to the ultimate destination of Universal Counciousness, since only self, the speck of counciousness, is able to perceive the universal counciousness. Any thing lower than
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 04:46 AM Permalink
When you are having dreams, in this scenario, from the perspective of you , who is an actor in the dream, you have both the time and space limitations. but, when you are awake, the same you donot have the time and space limitations.
Similar in this world. As long as you are in this world, like the way you are in thsi world, time and space exists. Once you realize that you are all pervading and that of Omni potent and omni present, then, the time and space limits vanish. This is called Maya or divine illusion.
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:50 AM Permalink
I like it. Time and space and material world are divine illusions. It is created by our consciousness, or the observer in us. So the material is same for you and me. A TV looks like TV for you and me also and for a dog also. So the observer in you and me and Dog has to be same. He is GOD brahman.
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:43 AM Permalink
"What was GOD doing before this t=0? When you said GOD created, you are bringing in time . Because the process itself is timebound. So, external GOD of no timebound, no space bound doesnt make sense. "
hmm... and when you limit God to space and time you are saying God will die .. coz whatever has a beginning MUST have an end ! .. and that cannot be God !!
BTW .. your inquisitiveness is quite mature .. keep it going !
RE:RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 04:49 AM Permalink
When you are having dreams, in this scenario, from the perspective of you , who is an actor in the dream, you have both the time and space limitations. but, when you are awake, the same you donot have the time and space limitations.
Similar is in this world. As long as you are indulged in this world with your senses of body and that of the sense of Mind, like the way you are in this world, time and space exists. Once you realize that you are all pervading and that of Omni potent and omni present and all knowing, then, the time and space limits vanish. This is called Maya or divine illusion, since it is in reality doesnot exist, but you your self or me my self had fallen to this state.
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:54 AM Permalink
If i slap you and say it doesn't exist its just illusion ???? .. pardon my language ..but this is the way i's also made to understand !!! u r a wiseman ..dont need further explaination ..do you?
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 07:14 AM Permalink
If thats the case, who defined these universal laws?
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by Nimesh Dikshit on Jun 18, 2008 05:24 AM Permalink
Interesting debate. Pritish - the word "created" as you say is definitely misleading. That's why in Hinduism its said that God Has Become The Universe or its a "projection" and not "creation" of part of the God's consciousness. I think as long as you call it Projection of the God you will understand the entire theory explained by Shridhar. Also because its a projection - we can say that God is in Everything - albeit - Everything is God. Also Maya or illusion does not mean "jagat mithya brahm satya". What you are saying makes sense ( through slapping ) with the above slogan from Adi Shankracharya. But that statement was made to just dilute Bhuddha's "Eeverything is Void" and bring back Hindus back in the Hindu fold. Jagat is not Mithya - if we say that then your slapping argument holds. But it is not so. What you need to do is consiously clear the veil between maya and mithya. Maya is not mirrage - its a necessity for the universe to exists and go forward.
RE:Why to assume external GOD that cannot be perceived
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 05:01 AM Permalink
Like if slapped you in your dreams, you will react and your actual bodys blood pressure will increase. It was a dream and never happened in reality but why your actual blood pressure should increase? It is less real not unreal.
RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:03 AM Permalink
Sameer, the first statement doesnt make sense. He cannot be ouside the creation as this creation is endless from the logical point of view. He cannot be outside because of the fact that that ouside has to be created forst before he can start residing in that outside.
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:07 AM Permalink
that is true if you assume that everything is bound by space and time. If not then there is a term called self existent i.e an existence not bound by space.
RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:08 AM Permalink
If that state exists, is is perfectly ok to assume that he minifested in the creation.
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:11 AM Permalink
yes that I agree. The t=0 state before when time and space began is the existence that we are talking about i.e singularity.
RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:14 AM Permalink
If you are talking about t=0, it is t=sometime for HIM . You are bringing in time for GOD. Remember he is not bound by time.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:15 AM Permalink
a thing like t=0 cannot make sense .. coz a lame man like me can ask what was there before t=0 ... t=-1?
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:13 AM Permalink
"He cannot be ouside the creation as this creation is endless from the logical point of view. " ... constructing my house from scratch while standing inside the house?? ... samjha nahi :)
RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:10 AM Permalink
.. think abt this ... God always existed ..that is eternal and we too always existed !
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:14 AM Permalink
Unfortunately the always existed is the problem. Everything as humans we know has a begining and an end. Thats why you have to go back to t=0 to reach a state called begining.the begining could have been a spirit without space or time what we call God.
RE:RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:15 AM Permalink
If you are talking about t=0, it is t=sometime for HIM . You are bringing in time for GOD. Remember he is not bound by time.
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:18 AM Permalink
Correct what I meant was t=0 for the observable universe ,before that it is a spirit not bound by space or time called God.It's not a physical form. At some point time began t=0
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:26 AM Permalink
before t=0 , God is a spirit visualize it like a ghost that has no physical form and does not exist in space or time.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:20 AM Permalink
"It's not a physical form." ... so God is giving a form to Himself ... its nice to think so ..concept sounds fragile though :)
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:23 AM Permalink
What was GOD doing before this t=0? When you said GOD created, you are bringing in time . Because the process itself is timebound. So, external GOD of no timebound, no space bound doesnt make sense.
RE:RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:18 AM Permalink
may be we are talking same ... the point is if I'm constructing a house its a wierd to say i'm standing inside the house and constructing it... creation and creator aka God have to be seperate .. makes sense ..atleast for me :)
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:21 AM Permalink
In the house example.. you started constructing at t=0,i.e the universe began , what scientist call sinularity, before that you existed in a non physical form not bound by space or time called spirit or God.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:23 AM Permalink
God has to be visaulized as a spirit a spirit is not physical i.e like a ghost it exists but cannot be touched or felt of is bound by space or time
RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 07:11 AM Permalink
No there will be a time when the universe will end or die correct .. but then the spirit always exist not bound by time or sace.
RE:RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:33 AM Permalink
Space and time began at t=0, before t=o ie teh singularity called God is a spirit not bound by space or time as they don't exist ****yet***** ... you mean there is something superior to God who the 'Spirit' and pushed into the limits of space and time? ... #### when you are attributing time factor to God know one thing that T can again become ZERO .. so with this concept we are annihilating God :)
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:37 AM Permalink
"Space and time began at t=0, before t=o ie teh singularity called God is a spirit not bound by space or time as they don't exist yet."
So you mean there exists something Greater than GOD .. which pushed God ..the initial Spirit into the bounds of Time.... BTW remember one thing .. when we attach time with anything .. there has to be a beginning and end .. that implying there will be a day when God will dye !!
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:34 AM Permalink
...mmm sorry ... God is not Atma ... God is Parama-Atma :) ..only one.. individual souls ..we... are Atma.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:26 AM Permalink
"God has to be visaulized as a spirit?" ... Why? .. are we not imposing limitations that way?
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:29 AM Permalink
God is what hindus call Atma i.e a form of spirit not bound by space or time, tahts why its difficult to comprehend as we exist in sapce and time and our thinking is limited by it.
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 04:27 AM Permalink
Space and time began at t=0, before t=o ie teh singularity called God is a spirit not bound by space or time as they don't exist yet.
Have you heard the term Holy spirit that some christians use or hindus use?
RE:One thing is sure
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:20 AM Permalink
Your are talking about a house which cannot produce itslef. But I am talking about the living thigs that can reproduce and dont need external GOD.
RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:50 AM Permalink
i've one at home with those 5 elements waiting :D.. so ttyl ... btw .. after long time i got good folks on rediff to discuss with :) ...keep your inquisitiveness alive ... trust me ...there is LOT to know and ofcourse un-know !!!!
RE:RE:One thing is sure
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:28 AM Permalink
Well living beings need body which is composed of 5 elements of nature .. and to maintain that body we need to continue maintaining the balance of these 5 elements !.. so we are always dependent of the nature..aka creation ..dont we?
They proposed theories. The concept of Maya and Brahman can be related to the quantum wierdness that scientists discovered today.
The question is how come rishis got to these advanced concepts without any apparatus? All we knew was that they were in forsts meditating.
Is it possible that when we see inwards, we can unveil many misteries? Is quantum wierdness the end of discovery? Can we not go beyong it?
So many misteries. So many questions. How can we fix the truth? What is absolute truth today may not be so tomorrow. But in the process, is it not our honesty to leave that doesnt make any sense at all like superstitions and profets?
Until proven to masses, anything is just theory. Not truth.
RE:Vedic rishis are scientists
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 03:53 AM Permalink
Anything that you want to be related can be related. Rishis have nothing to do with quantum physics you need equations to prove it.
Quantum Physics it self is in question, if a particle dones have a fixed position at a given time.. it means in Einstens words God plays dice.
So dear for anything that is created there is a creator and that creator is the God of Adam and Eve.
RE:Vedic rishis are scientists
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jun 18, 2008 03:56 AM Permalink
You have a point though.. everything is a theory and observable facts... so God cannot be observed and hence not proven.
RE:RE:Vedic rishis are scientists
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:03 AM Permalink
sometimes the way concept of God is quoted sounds as though he is the output of some chemical reaction in a lab ... he is a person who can feel .. thats why the creation has beauty and taste ... sounds sensible? :)
RE:Vedic rishis are scientists
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 03:56 AM Permalink
So, where is the creator? He cannot be outside as that outside has to be created. He cannot be inside for obvious reasons. How can you explain the creator? where is he?
RE:Vedic rishis are scientists
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 03:59 AM Permalink
If he has so many limitations, can such an intelligent world be manifested by Him?
RE:Vedic rishis are scientists
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 04:01 AM Permalink
wonderful. It is the creation that we hindus call GOD. He is in the creation. Every possible force of creation has to be in the creation and every distrcutive force has to be in the creation itslef.
RE:Vedic rishis are scientists
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 04:08 AM Permalink
how can he be God at all if he has bounds ! ... eternity is always beyond all perceivable dimensions
RE:Muslims need a lesson
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 03:54 AM Permalink
well said. We see many muslims crying in TVs (palestine) and we are supposed to feel sorry for them. They dont reciprocate . They need a feel of non-violence.
Most muslims have misinterpreted the word Kafir or adulterated the original meaning for their selfish gains.
The word kafir means THE ONE WHO DONOT HAVE A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF THE ALL PERVADING DIVINITY OR GOD OR ALLAH OR PARAMATMA OR HEAVENLY FATHER. Kafir doesnot mean the one who donot grow beard or who donot pray 5 times or who donot wear Burqa or who donot wear white dress or who donot go to Mosque.
The word KAFIR has EXACTLY SAME MEANING AS THE WORD BRAMHIN, OR THE ONE WHO HAD A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF PARABRAMHA OR PARAMATMA OR ALLAH OR ALL PERVADING DIVINITY. Kafir and Bramhin are two words having a same meaning. While kafir is exclusive, the word Bramhin is inclusive. That is it. A glass that is referred to as "Half full" IS EXACTLY SAME AS "HALF-EMPTY".
TRY TO UNDERSTAND RELIGION AND THE HOLY SCRIPTURES BY USE OF YOUR INTUTION POWERS and by rising abov ethe material and Mind level by calming the Mind and body, RATHER THAN MERE BODILY SENSES or the sense of Mind.
RE:Words KAFIR & BRAMHIN are exactly same in their deeper meaning
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 03:25 AM Permalink
"That is it. A glass that is referred to as "Half full" IS EXACTLY SAME AS "HALF-EMPTY". " .. hmm I'm not able to make sense of this in the given context :)
RE:Words KAFIR & BRAMHIN are exactly same in their deeper meaning
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 03:30 AM Permalink
What I meant to say is that, in Hinduism, we call the same enlightened person a Bramhin, on the one who had a personal experiences of ALL PERVADING GOD, and had freed from the clutches of nature, while in Islamic culture, they called everyone else as Kafir. While hinduism is inclusive in referring to the enlightened perosn, islam called that person by way of exclusion, which means even though the way of telling may be differing, the in depth meaning is one and the same.
RE:Words KAFIR & BRAMHIN are exactly same in their deeper meaning
by Practicalman on Jun 18, 2008 04:16 AM Permalink
In Hindu not all are Brahmins, brahmins are few and they take all others as lower than them. Neway I am not going in details. But for your knowledge about Kafir I feel sorry for your ignorance but pity for your boasting...Kafir means one who does Kufr (bad things), even muslims doing kufr are kafirs. Hindus are openly Musrik...means doing Sirk or making more than one God, they may also be Kufr and...so as some muslims , christians etc. If you dont know, just dont blabber...hv knowledge and say...Read ur own scripture first...can you explain me the 23rd sloka of Mlecha Upanishada outright now....
RE:Sridhar's text
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 03:18 AM Permalink
universal Truth cannot be changed, but only had to be followed, and adhered by every one of aevery religion or land. no exceptions. Hence copy and paste.
RE:Sridhar's text
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 03:22 AM Permalink
good answer .. univer truth can never be changed .. however our understanding of it does evolve
RE:Sridhar's text
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 03:26 AM Permalink
So, you mean to say that there is no one who had already unraveled the universal truth and universal laws? You or me may not have a complete understanding of them, but there are others who are. They had freed themselves from the clutches of the nature and the maya and freed them from the diseases, death etc bondages of the nature.
There are Lord Jesus Christ like or Lord Krishna like saints in India in every generation to lead the world in the correct direction when needed.
RE:Sridhar's text
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 03:31 AM Permalink
I totally respect the sages and saints who realized GOD. But why should I trust them totally. Yes, I am not making any effort today or not in a position to make efforts .
I am not against learning from teachers but do not want to trust them 100%. I am just saying that my own experience makes me believe 100%. Saints and sages are the people we get information but at the end it should be I that should jugde the truth.
RE:Sridhar's text
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 03:35 AM Permalink
hmm good one .. but a judge can be one who has already realized the Truth. .. this topic is quite sublime .. its tought to give it exact words... needs lot of soul searching before we even realize what we are looking for !! atleast thats my exp.
RE:Sridhar's text
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 03:38 AM Permalink
You are right. There are certain criteria to either accept or to either consider a person as an enlightened person or to be treated as a true teaching, as per vedic texts. Like the terms Savikalpa Samadhi, Nirvikalpa samadhi, Jeevan Mukta, Para mukta etc stages. Of course, we cannot trust blindly every tom, dick andharry, who takes the name of GOD, by mere external senses, but had no real experiences of GOD, or for that matter had not freed self from the clutches of the nature and its bondages.
Please read the book "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Swami Paramahansa Yogananda or his other commentary on Bhagavad Geetha in the book "GOD TALKS WITH ARJUNA".
You will get more details on the experience based spirituality.
Swami Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says that: Knwoledge obtained by way of reading books is GOOD. Knowledge obtained by of a person who had an experience of the things is BETTER. Knowledge obtained by way of self experiences is BEST.
This above was especially true in the path of Spirituality. Holy scrpitures and books can help the people as sign posts, like the way sign posts help while we are on the road journey from a source to destination.
RE:Sridhar's text
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 03:31 AM Permalink
So, you mean to say that there is no one who had already unraveled the universal truth and universal laws? .. NO .. I just said that in the context that you seem to saying whatever you are posting is the Universal Truth ... it may be true .. but there is much more beyond it.. is all I's trying to say :).. as they, spirituality is a journey and never an aspired destination.
RE:Sridhar's text
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 03:44 AM Permalink
Sorry. Moon was a moon for the planet earth, and not the palnet itself.
My point is that, long before Galileo, in other part of the world, universal secrets, including that of the craation and the creator are already known to them. They even knew about the atoms and molecules etc.
RE:Sridhar's text
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 03:35 AM Permalink
well said Pritish. Wee will never know the truth. We will go towards it.
An example is the in olden days people belived that earth was the center. Everyone belived it to be ultimate truth but Galileo proved that it is wrong. Both ideas contribute to the journey of relization of truth.
My point is that truth is relative not absolute for human beings.
RE:RE:Sridhar's text
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 03:39 AM Permalink
"well said Pritish. Wee will never know the truth. We will go towards it. " .. we may or may not ..yes we should go towards it...but I feel it is quite intelligent of a man to desire to know !
RE:RE:Sridhar's text
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 03:40 AM Permalink
Dear Global Hindu, you look like you are ignorant of the fact that , long before Galileo, there was an established fact that Earth moves round the sun, sun was surrounded by the palnets, moon was one such planet for earth in Vedic times itself. Which means, that there is a possibility that there is a possibility of knowing the ultimate truth before as well.
RE:Sridhar's text
by Practicalman on Jun 18, 2008 04:33 AM Permalink
U can get these knowledge from Quran...which describes earth, son ,moon are revolving in their own orbit, Sun has its own light and moon having reflected light. Infact whatever question you pose ...Quran has some references or answer to it. Our ignorance and instigated hate keeps you away from these knowledge. If you are a true to the search of knowledge...do read Quran and judge itself.
RE:Sridhar's text
by Global Hindu on Jun 18, 2008 03:24 AM Permalink
Wonderful. Science, daily experiences, discussions with others should make our believe eveolve. We dont know the universal truth yet but we are getting there slowly.
RE:Sridhar's text
by rajesh pandey on Jun 18, 2008 03:56 AM Permalink
I'm with you along with a lot of other Hindu friends. We have some more constructive thought. Please do so and open a website. A lot of people including new generation and old, don't even know what exactly the Hindu religion is. They are confused with no direction. Our religious books have been interpreted wrongly and other forces are dividing us. This is the time to wake up and be unite under a peaceful religion.
Here is a simple explanation and the core of all religions. While mere words cannot explain GOD but only self experiences, here is a small try to explain the phenomenon of the world.
Every individual, in the process of regaining the lost universal counciousness state or the STATE OF GOD or ALL PERVADING DIVINITY, will go through the following stages. The reason why its a regaining of divine state, is because this is what the ORIGINAL state is for every individual, the state of infinite hapiness and bliss and that of universal counciousness, of omnipotence and omnipresence. For some reasons, individual SOULS or specks of counciousnesses self-impose the individuality and limitedness under the influence of EGO (or the "I" feeling):
STAGES: Body Counciousness-to-MindCounciousness-to-WillPowerCounciousness-to-SoulCounciousness(or realization of self as nothing but a speck of counciousness)-to-Seeing/Identifying Existing Of UniversalCounciousness OR UniversalPower-to-RealizingSelfAsPartOfUniversalCounciousness-to-Final Realization of self as all pervading UNIVERSAL COUNCIOUSNESS with onmipresence,omnipotence & existing with in the creation & beyond creation.
THE ATTITUDE OF A PERSON CHANGES AS THE PERSONS LEVEL OF ENLIGHTMENT CHANGES FROM ONE STAGE TO OTHER STAGE.
1.Body counciousness or the realization that self is the body (or mere senses). Perceiving the world and acting in the world with this counciousness is the lowest that any one can fall to.
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by Pritish Nagaraj on Jun 18, 2008 02:58 AM Permalink
or just ..post it in a blog and provide link here ..sorry but none is going to read all this
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 02:56 AM Permalink
6.In the intermediate stages of realization of the universalness, the individual perceives that he/she is actually part and parcel of the universalness.
7.In the final stage of enlightment, the person has no individuality at all, and is fully in tune with the universal counciousness irrespective of time and is Omnipotent and omnipresent. This is the state of GOD or referred to as GOD in various scriptures by the saints of all religions across the world who had realized what is GOD.
Most probably, there is a possibility of a person getting access to the highers states of realization, for a brief periods of time, including getting access to the highest universal counciousness either intentionally or unintentionally, but those who can go into and retain the higher states at their will are the really enlightened ones. A simple example of the above phenomenon is the example of a person watching a movie. When the persons counciousness is fully involved in the movie via the bodily senses and the sense of Mind, the person is tuned to the moods of the movie. When a sad scene comes, the person becomes sad, and when a happier moment comes, the person becomes happy and so on. As long as the person forgets that self is different from the movie and lets the movie(which is nothing but a combination of lighter and darker shades of light) illude, due to self imposed restrition to the movie, the person is tuned by the movie.
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 02:56 AM Permalink
4.Soul counciousness or realization that self is an ever existing entity. Perceiving the world & acting in the world with this counciousness is higher state than that of previous 3 states.It is in this state,that the person sees self as an ever existing entity & not subjected to the cycle of life and death & is not vulnerable to the material & mind level limiting aspects of the creation like indestructibility by materials etc.This state is more powerful than any individual qualities an individual may have possessed. When a person regains access to this state, even for a split second will be able to start perceiving the next states, that are above the individuality & leading to universalness.
5.When an individual realizes self as a speck of counciousness or Soul after coming out of the outer sheaths(steps 1,2&3) of illusion, then the individual starts perceving that self is not alone in this creation,but starts identifying the existing of an unknown power,A POWER THAT IS MUCH BEYOND THE GRASPING power of the self.This is the initial stage of knowing the universalness.Sometimes,when we have developed an affection towards someone,then we would have a realization that there is no difference between that person and self. This means,a persons counciousness or the sphere of awareness or influence (perception or action) is beyond the individual body or mind or will power.This is the starting point towards realizing or regaining the universal counciousness.
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 02:56 AM Permalink
2.Mind counciousness or the realization that self is the mind (or realization of self as the mere mind, still yet one more sense, but is more powerful than mere body senses)at of being more powerful than the bodily senses). Perceiving the world and carrying out actions in the world with this level of realization is a bit better than the previous body level, since Mind is superior than the body or bodily senses. Here is an experiment done recently to prove the control of mind over body: brownDOTeduSLASHAdministrationSLASHNews_BureauSLASH2001-02SLASH01-098DOThtml I could only give modern scientific proof of the phenomenon up to this level, since modern science is still evolving and as of now, it is limited to material level and to some extent mind leveland not beyond that.
3.Will Power Counciousness or the realization that self is the will power.Perceiving the world and acting in the world with this counciousness is higher state than that of previous 2 states. This is because, in truth, Will power is more powerful than the body or mind.
RE:RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 02:59 AM Permalink
Like I said, words cannot be enough to describe the universal phenomenon, but I am still trying to put it in words and in short as much as possible, and as complete as possible, with out creating more confusion. Sorry for lengthy writeup. Can't help it.
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by Virgo on Jun 18, 2008 03:02 AM Permalink
Sridhar, you are forcing me to get into discussion of Islam. There is no need for any interpretation of this verse:
8:12 "I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
My suspicion is that you are really a Muslim terrorist trying to divert the topic to Islam bashing, in a very deviant way. Otherwise, I don't see why you would be spamming the board with these posts.
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 03:15 AM Permalink
Forst, let us discuss the above verse.
Who is a believer? IS a person who grows a beard, who reads namaz 5 times, who goes to mecca in life once, who reads quran by a mere mouth and mind BUT when the time to trust ALLAH or GOD comes, he will not do so, but takes a weapon and fights instead of leaving the things to GOD or ALLAh, can be considered as a Believer?
Or a person who truly had a self experience of all pervading GOD and had established a firm relation with the omnipotent and omnipresent and all knowing GOD, and even if the person faces tough situations of facing life and death struggles, with out yielding to the anger, lust,greed but still tries to sacrifice for others, with laugh on the face, with out any fear and with out any lure for virgins or orhter material goodies can be called as a believer?
There is a difference between a believer who merely believes in something out of sensual convince and the person who believes in something out of self experiences of GOD.
For those, who donot have experience of GOD, terror will reign in this. This is the fact of all religions, not just that of Islam. The primary goal of the individual is to seek the realization of what self is,and then to realize the universalness oneness. Any one who donot go in this direction,is subjected to the ruthless treatment by the creation or mothernature,since that person is in the world of mere sensual pleasures & that person will eventually loose the valuable & precious life.
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by sridhar gorantla on Jun 18, 2008 02:58 AM Permalink
But the moment the person realizes or re-remembers that this is just a movie, then, the person selectively enjoys the movie scenes and is not forced to be affected by the unwanted scenes. Similar is the world. The more a person lets self fall to the pull of the senses, the more the person is binded to the nature and environment, but the more the person realizes that self is above own body or mind or even will power, to that extent the person gets freed from the nature and its environment. If the person realizes even more further above the soul level, then to that extent the person gets free from the external aspects of the creation, and rises above the illusion of the creation, which again is nothing but the ALL PERVADING GOD's power that ultimately is responsible for the drama of the creation.
The goal of every individual was set to realize the highest level of realization and the world, either implicitly or explictly is moving towards this direction, with those who explicitly moving in this direction freeing up faster than others.
RE:WHAT IS GOD?
by kumar mangat on Jun 18, 2008 03:22 AM Permalink
Mr. Sridhar. this is a discussion board. we are here to discuss and not to read any novel.
