This news item and the interview with the retired Pak. Lt.General Akhtar, shows the "corporate culture" of Pak. army. None of this is entirely a surprise in view of the "fever of religion" that Pak has suffered from and has spread through the entire Islamic world now. This fever of religion produces "wealth". Partition in 1947 has been described as the "Greatest Robbery" of the 20th century. Hindus and Sikhs were robbed of their monies. That was an important motive for partition. 1. One consolation for India is that the whole world now shares the Indian view of Pakistan - that it is the "finishing school" for terrorists. The U.S. and Afghans are saying, quite openly, that the Pakistan Army is behind the Taliban and leading terror groups like LeT. 2. Pakistan has had a very lucky run in the last 60 years. Support from the USA has been a key factor. Since 1972 support from China has been another factor. 3. But thoughtful Pakistanis realise that the army has been feeding off the "Kashmir dispute" with India, to fatten itself. These army people in Pak., are immensely wealthy, from American money, from the Afghan drug money. They enjoy the "slave labour" of poor muslim and christians Dalits. 4. It is Pak.army's interest to keep "Kashmir issue" on the boil. LeT top guys have also got very wealthy on the money they received from Saudi and other sources. Terorism has a business side too. Ask Dawood Ibrahim. 5. Ordinary Pakistanis will revolt one day.
RE:Religious Belief and Violence to Please GOD - Khuda ke Liye
by ashish tiwari on Jun 13, 2008 02:16 PM Permalink
Absolutely right.. The samething is happening to Hindus in Bangaldesh,, in the name of Islam their property and money is being looted by goons of political parties unless they agree to convert to islam. Even Narendra Modi and RSS in Gujrat will not do it..where is our secular brigade and the secular english media...??
Tony D'Souza is a konkan author from GOA who stays in US and this what he has to say about Portuguese deeds in GOA in his Book(interview came in metro paper in Uk). 'To convert hindus, they made them taste pork meat , rendered them untouchable and then converted them' .........this is just one instance, I wonder how the other converts in India turned up..were they given same treatment earlier..I am talking abt christian missionaries who are still doing the same thing..or have done it earlier..see how we Hindians are so tolerant..even after all thse, we are strong
RE:Tony D'Souza
by sriram sriram sriram on Jun 12, 2008 06:26 PM Permalink
even conversion will NOT give equality as Dalits find after 50 years now..!!
RE:Tony D'Souza
by Kris iyer on Jun 12, 2008 06:35 PM Permalink
Neharika, The topic is "forced or strongly induced conversions". "DS" has referred to the author Tony D'Souza's account of Portughese behaviour in the 16, 17 and 18 centuries in Goa. They brought strong African slaves to round up entire Hindu villages, then they would rub into the mouths of Hindu men and women, a freshly killed pig's meat. Then kept them imprisoned, without food or water until they converted to Roman Catholicism. Your point is: If there is no discrimination then there would be no conversion. Fine. But did you know that Dalits who converted to Christianity and Islam are still discriminated on "caste" grounds? Did you know that in Pakistani society, very muslim, there are Dalits? So, conversion does not necessarily enhance the life of the Dalits. On the contrary, in Hindu society, the reform process has proceeded so much that in some areas, the Dalits are politically so powerful, they are able to "discriminate" against other castes. You have to visit rural areas of India to see for yourself what I mean.
All this talk of nuclear war is false. Tell me how many time both these countries are tested nuclear weapons. Only ONCE right?. And that too, test did not go well on both the sides. remember India have to do another set of nuclear test after first test. It was nothing but disposing element of uranium of first unsuccessful test. Other wise radio active martial would have leaked later on. Same is case in Pakistan test. They make number of test for same reason.
Buy the way these test happen underground , where self initiation of nuclear weapon is much easy. I doubt both the countries have technology to initiate nuclear weapon on surface. All war mongering talk is just to keep each side people busy in fear So that no real way is found the people facing real issue of poverty
RE:both have no weapons to use
by Kris iyer on Jun 12, 2008 08:14 PM Permalink
ProudNorth, Your speculation is okay to make. But magazines in the West and the Institute of Strategic Studies in London, believe that both India and Pakistan have "basic atom bombs" = using uranium isotope and conventional triggers. But no "hydrogen" bombs yet. They credit India with about 220 "deliverable" weapons and Pak with about 100. Perhaps, they are also speculating, although they may have sources in their intelligence services. That is, however, current wisdom. 1. I agree with your speculation that the underground tests may NOT have been a total success for the two countries. 2. After India's test, there was some speculation whether further "verification" and "confirmation" could be had via "computer generated simulation exercises". Some codes India was still looking for. So, you may be right that Indian scientists did not go home fully satisfied. BJP now says, they would agree to the "Indo-U.S Deal" if India could test further, perhaps, about two or three times only. 3. After Pak. announced its "test", European and Japanese seismologists said, "they detected no sign that Pak had tested". Then the US scientists, said there had been a Pak test of "low intensity" (= whether it was a conventional rather than atomic explosion?). A.Q. Khan was qualified enough to put together a test. 4. In the changed scenario in the world, who knows, whether India may be getting the "Codes" for "testing" with the computer. No need for actual tests. Israel may be helping.
Good article.... The world should take immediate action to defang Pakistan's Army. Let's not forget that countries who are rearing this aparatus will have to face the same.... History is witness.... US today face the music of their own creation... Tomorrow China will also face.... We Indians had to pay the price for LTTE..... Western Democracies because of the nature of their civilization, may not be able to appriciate the situation. However, it will be in their best interest to try to understand that a Nation dominated by Tribal societies and monolethic religious practises may not be able to respond positively to diplomacy and civilized way of discussions... This article is very well written and the categorisation - Nationalist Jihadist and Islamic Jihadist would soon be part of Security Language soon....
A very mature analysis. But some of the replies which should ALL have been deleted indulge in abusing each other. Nothing informative on the subject.Only serious but non-abusive discussions no matter how bitter or unpalatable should be published as those who do not agree can easily give their equally strong but informative views. Otherwise this site becomes a platform for having a slug fest for using filthy language only. The fact of the matter is that Pakistan was born in hate, it lives in hate & will perish in hate even if it means self-destruct as it happened when it lost East Pakistan. Hatred for India keeps Pakistan ticking.Gutlessness of India secularists makes Jihad an easy option.God in His wisdom has made the size of each finger in every hand different in size and shape. Similarly He made humans different like a garden that has flowers of different colours, shapes & sizes. Any faith or ideology that tries to convert entire humanity into one homogeneous entity is involved in a foolish and futile activity. These same loonies will tell you that not even a leaf shakes without God's will, yet when it comes to their own faith these violently warring factions want to use force to make the world into a single Ummah under a single Caliph!! All terrorist acts in India are Pakistan centric whilst all terror acts within Pakistan are also Pak centric.With the same level of violence going on Pakistan being a small country will get finished before India does as it is much bigger.
RE:LET GOD RUNS HIS WORLD WITHOUT HUMAN INTERFERENCE
by Kris iyer on Jun 12, 2008 07:46 PM Permalink
Kedem Kemorah, Like others here, I too praise your contribution. 1. We have a few regular posters who enjoy abusing each other in vulgar terms. Often, they are completely off the topic. Probably, very young IT guys. They get bored at office, see. So, they use this as a bit of fun. At times, even in their vulgarity they can be funny. But I agree that they are not contributing any useful info. or arguments. 2. Yes, hate was sadly, the basis of Pak's creation, consecrated by extreme violence and brutality, triggered by the League's "Direct Action Day" but on the Indian side too, sadly, there was brutality in Punjab, Western U.P., Bihar and Bengal. Many innocent people of all three religions died. 3. You are right that the variety in Nature applies to humans also. GOD plays a very big pair of dice with 23 sides [ 46 chromosomes], giving each of us a unique personality, talents or the lack of it. 4. Where is the UMMAH? Even within the present Islamic world, there is no agreement on many things - not even on the muslim dress. The "Ummah" as a concept is nice, attractive but in practice does not operate well. 5. Why Syria and Iraq don't like each other, Why Iran and Iraq fought a war for 8 years? Why Saudi Wahabism is not acceptable to many other Sunni muslims? Why Wahabis, Salafis, Hanfis, Shias, Ismailis argue with, and criticise each other? Why many Afghans dislike the Pak.army and govt.? Why the Arabs dislike Persians? NO such thing as a Universal religion.
RE:LET GOD RUNS HIS WORLD WITHOUT HUMAN INTERFERENCE
by Reformer on Jul 09, 2008 01:16 AM Permalink
hmmm...Young IT guys are doing it insincerly...but this guy is doing it sincerly...A WOLF IN THE SKIN OF SHEEP....with a loads of copy paste stuff
RE:RE:Hmmmmm bhai log
by nitin tomar on Jun 12, 2008 04:51 PM Permalink
tera operation karke,tera bulaa me se charbi nikaalna hi padega.Abhi tho tu abc means AAdha bulla Cut, operation kiya tho PBC means Pura Bulla Cut. Bol manjoor hai.U fu.....n pakistani
RE:@abcl & Shakti kapoor
by samuel on Jun 12, 2008 03:04 PM Permalink
samjhate raho,per ye nahi manenge. cow mata kahte hi rahenge. i have no objection if they call bull father.
RE:RE:@abcl & Shakti kapoor
by ashish tiwari on Jun 13, 2008 02:25 PM Permalink
cow aur bull ne to kuch nahi bigada kisika par mohammad ko khuda ke liye khuda ka messenger ya prophet mat kaho yar..wo to duniya ka pehla islami atankwadi tha.
