RE:@balaord,khalidraza and ransaran
by khalid raza on Jun 04, 2008 10:58 AM Permalink
Mighty....the statics should be with you..as we were not born in the 6th century...but you hindus believ in 7 janams so you must be aware of the number as you must have been in 1 of your janam in 6th cent
RE:@balaord,khalidraza and ransaran
by bun maska on Jun 04, 2008 10:58 AM Permalink
even muslims r killed in iraq and pak. yeh toh chalta reheta hai. be broad-minded. we r no more indians, pakis, americans, australians, etc. we are all global citizens of this world. rephrase your question "how many HUMANS were killed due to terrorism all over the world"
RE:@balaord,khalidraza and ransaran
by balaord on Jun 04, 2008 11:08 AM Permalink
Why you guys use this pundit problem every time, when you debate a topic? The pundits faced problem just like any other community including Muslims.It is a insurrection problem due to political reasons,just like what we have in North easr now
RE:@balaord,khalidraza and ransaran
by salim on Jun 04, 2008 11:04 AM Permalink
Just give me one commision set up by the BJP govt during its tenure to unearth the so called killings of pundits. True,Pundits migrated from Kashmir due to insurgency,since Delhi was welcoming them at the same time branding muslims who migrate as potential terrorist,they had no option but to stay and die. Compare the count of Muslims due to insurgency , you will not even ask this question.These things are besides the point, as I asked you first, who set up any copmmision? what are its findings? who was the CM when that so called massacre took place? who was PM etc..? Dont kill punidts to get score some points in dicusssion forums ,if not prove it citing sources.
RE:@balaord,khalidraza and ransaran
by venkat on Jun 04, 2008 11:09 AM Permalink
PUNDITS MIGRATED UNDER THE PRESSURE OF JAGMOHAN WHO WAS THE GOVERNOR AT THAT TIME.HE WAS SPECIFICALLY SENT TO CLEAR VALLEY OF PUNDITS.
RE:@balaord,khalidraza and ransaran
by khalid raza on Jun 04, 2008 11:14 AM Permalink
HE WAS SENT BY THE SANGHIS WHO WERE SUPPORTING VP SINGH GOVERNMENT....
YOU HINDUS ALWAYS CLAIM THAT WESTERN MONEY ARE USED BY CHRISTIEN MISSIONERIES THAN HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT BRITISH DOES BELIEVE IN COVERSIONS RATHER DURING SPECIAL LAWS WERE ENACTED GRANTING A NUMBERS OF FACILITIES TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO COVERT TO CHRISTINITY DURING BRITISH PERIOD
RE:conversion
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 11:12 AM Permalink
The conversion money dont come directly from govt. of britain or govt. of US. It is some rich christian who forward this money to india. Also US and britain is more liberated country they allow every faith to be practice on their soul.
RE:conversion
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 11:23 AM Permalink
No real hindu can lick any bodys boot in this world. If so than he is not hindu. Also i am not interested what is the interest of US or ME. Let them die.
RE:conversion
by murli nair on Jun 05, 2008 08:14 PM Permalink
Khalid - i hold no brief for hindu fanatics, but actually it is your Saudi Arabia the great Mecca of muslims who are the bootlickers of America. how do you explain that ?
RE:conversion
by Gautam Sinha on Jun 04, 2008 01:28 PM Permalink
Hey just FYI, We Hindus do not claim so, but certain propaganda crazy organizations claiming to be Hindus do so when the power hegemony equation with tribals is disbalanced and cannot digest cultures existing in India which are not cow belt culture. You will find such groups always talking against converts and conversion. Hinduism accepts all religions and its practices. Which government did what historically is good for history books not for chewing always so forget it.
While calling him a Disgraced Scientist of Pakistan in the very opening words, what value can you attach to his remarks. Secondly, scientists are only developers of weapons - using it lies with the Army and the Political Rulers controlling the Army. Why do we give any weightage to some utterances of somebody carrying no power or value in his own country? The fact is, India is large enough to survive a nuclear attack but Pakistan is so small that half of it will vanish with the first bomb they throw on India and the rest of it will vanish in our first bomb. Particularly when India has Nuclear weapons with it and that too in proximity of Pakistan, any attack on India would first endanger Pakistan. So only, they are perpetrating terrorism in India. Or else, Kargil would have decided it forever, but for their cry with the US to prevail over India!
Afghanistan is now a war zone,prior to the invasion of USSR it was as good as any south asian country. Now let me come to the core of your analysis (????).
If force and military power could convert people,then british would have converted Afghanistan to a christian country when they ruled it with brutal force a hundred years ago. If sword can force people to change their ideology them Afganistan should now be the becon of communist rule-Since USSR during its powerful days was actually ruling the country. Even today the whole world is against Afganistan - And right from NATO to all military giants are camping and trying to propogate their value system. But Afghans are rejecting that with every means possible. These afghans are the same people whom you are now accusing of succumbing to Islamic invaders when cluster bombs couldnt subdue them , how could a mere sword will force them?
The TRUTH is contrary to your observation,Afganistan is a standing example that using force to propogate a ideology will never work and never worked no matter how powerful the sword is!!!!
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by khalid raza on Jun 04, 2008 10:29 AM Permalink
BALOARD...HINDUS MIND WORK WITHIN THE PERIPHERY OF THE THE AMOUNT OF ANTI-ISLAMIC KNOWLEDGE THEY POSSESS...THEY CANT ANSWER YOU FOR SURE ON THIS....BUT LIKE A PAGAN WILL JUMP ON OTHER TOPIC OR ABUSE ISLAM FOR SURE....
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by ransaran on Jun 04, 2008 10:23 AM Permalink
BALAORD YOU HAVE GOT TO THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM MY WELL WISHES ARE WITH YOU
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 10:40 AM Permalink
Same example is US. US does not wanted Saddam so he removed him. Also their motive was to establish democracy their so you can see iraq is democratic country today.
RE:RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by khalid raza on Jun 04, 2008 10:42 AM Permalink
ha ha... democracy by usa...we have seen the democracy by us in afghanistan...same karzai is president for 7 years...the democracy in iraq menas different leaders for shia and sunni...i dont know when you ppl will stop licking usa's boot
RE:RE:RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 10:48 AM Permalink
We are not licking US boot but your dear pakistan sucking everything of US. We are not begging against US. We are same indian who took saddams side due to our friendship.
Also we are not interested what is going other part of world. We know we have our glory and we are interested in progress of our country only.
We are not behaving like "Begaani shaadi me abdulla diwana". Also we are not claiming glory of sikandar or sallauddin. we know our roots very well.
RE:RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by khalid raza on Jun 04, 2008 10:55 AM Permalink
more over the glory of salladin is in liberating the aqsa mosque from christan...same way you hindus praise the glory of knicer wallah nfor babri mosque
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by khalid raza on Jun 04, 2008 10:52 AM Permalink
Sparrow...pakistan is not dear to any muslims ....but i think hindus have very deep attachments with pakistan...in every discussion they crop up the name of pak...
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by Exposse on Jun 04, 2008 10:53 AM Permalink
Small correction.The Pak establismnt licks the boot of US and the public is against it. Here the govt is against it, but the pblic is every ready to lick the boots .That is the difference
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 11:19 AM Permalink
Big correction here. India is democratic country here people choose government. Decision of government is decision of their people also. Show me any single hindu who ready to lick US boots. If any one than he is not hindu. We have our own identity and we are happy in it. May be dont have much reason as other faith. Still we ready to die to protect our small faith.
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 10:38 AM Permalink
The britisher motive was to earn money from afghanistan. Believe me if their motive was conversion or religiouse gain than afghanistan story would have been different than today.
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by balaord on Jun 04, 2008 10:43 AM Permalink
Islam is actually winning the hearts of americans because of its Inherent Truth.Here is the sample reports from the main stream US media on, How Islam is winning the hearts of Hispanics in US from main stream US media
St Pittusburg times sptimes.com/2008/02/09/Hillsborough/America_s_Muslim_popu.shtml
Voice of America - The US government funded media outlet on Islam's growing influence on Latino population
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by murli nair on Jun 05, 2008 08:17 PM Permalink
Actually only the blacks in America are converting to islam, that too out of spite against white racism rather than attraction towards islam. Hispanics are very committed christians.
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by sushmita on Jun 04, 2008 03:12 PM Permalink
"If force and military power could convert people,then british would have converted Afghanistan to a christian country when they ruled it with brutal force a hundred years ago. If sword can force people to change their ideology them Afganistan should now be the becon of communist rule-Since USSR during its powerful days was actually ruling the country"
THE BRITISH AND SOVIETS WERE THERE FOR MONEY, NOT RELIGION. THEIR OWN COUNTRY IS NOT COMMUNIST ANYMORE.
"These afghans are the same people whom you are now accusing of succumbing to Islamic invaders when cluster bombs couldnt subdue them , how could a mere sword will force them?"
THE CORE OF MY ARGUMENT IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE BUDDHISTS ARE ALL GONE - MAJORITY KILLED OR FORCED TO MIGRATE. SOME CONVERTED TO ESCAPE.
SEE THE COMPARISON TO KASHMIR - WHERE ARE THE HINDU PANDITS TODAY ? ARE THEY STILL IN KASHMIR ? NO. MANY WERE KILLED IN 1989. MAJORITY MIGRATED OUT OF FEAR (AS TRAVEL OPTIONS EXISTED - EARLIER, THEY DIDNT). SOME ARE STILL LEFT BEHIND, AND SOME OF THEM ARE STILL KILLED EACH YEAR. THIS IS A REPEAT OF WHAT HAPPENED IN AFGHANISTAN CENTURIES AGO.
IF 200 LATER, SOME OTHER IDIOT ARGUES THAT WHERE ARE THE HINDUS IN KASHMIR - THEY ALL CONVERTED PEACEFULLY, YOU KNOW ITS AN ARGUMENT THAT HAS NO TRUTH IN IT. THIS IS THE CORE OF MY ARGUMENT. AND AFGHANISTAN IS A STANDING EXAMPLE OF THIS.
BUT YOU HAVE IGNORED MY PLEA - COMPARE INDIA TO AFGHANISTAN, AND DECIDE WHAT LEGACY YOU WANT TO LEAVE FOR YOUR CHILD.
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 10:35 AM Permalink
This is totally biased statement made by you. Britisher niether believe in conversion theory nor they wants to rule on afghanistan for long period. They were interested in looting wealth only. Same britisher ruled on india also but they could not convert india due to their trading interest only. They were not having religiouse fobia in their mind.
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by CaptJackSparrow on Jun 04, 2008 10:45 AM Permalink
There were not any forceful conversion. All were wishful. Also hinduism is not organized religion like other relgion. So you can say that we can not suppress other religiouse people forcefully like ME, may be due to our lake of unity.
RE:@Sushmita - Debate me on this
by ransaran on Jun 04, 2008 10:47 AM Permalink
sparrow YOU PEOPLE FREQENTLY CLAIM THAT WESTERN FUNDS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR CONVERSION OF LARGE NUMBER OF HINDUS THAN HOW CAN U SAY THAT BRITISH NEITHER BELIEVE IN CONVERSION. REPLY
never trust them. They've build their nuclear bomb with India in mind. Now they must have realized - that if there is a nuclear war - Pakistan will become like Mars for at least 200 years.
they drove the hindu pandits out now kashmir has an overwhelming muslim majority ethnic cleansing of hindus from kashmir
they want to convert kashmir into an islamic area, with 100% muslims.
dont believe it ? most people cant look into the future. but look into the past.
afghanistan was a peaceful buddhist nation but their forefathers invaded the country they destroyed temples and idols the latest act of destruction was in bamiyan they forced buddhists out they killed them, forced them, ra**d their women they forcefully converted them they wiped out all traces of their religion today, the predominantly buddhist country has less than 0.1% buddhists.
what the moderate muslims have to realise is does 100% islam make a place a better place ? well, look at afghanistan and you know the answer
which is better for the women of your house ? afghanistan, or jaipur, delhi, mumbai, ahmedabad and bangalore ? which is better for your children ?
moderate muslims have to speak out they have to be louder than the jehadis moderate muslims have to solve this problem !!!
RE:afghanistan, kashmir...
by balaord on Jun 04, 2008 10:09 AM Permalink
Afghanistan is now a war zone,prior to the invasion of USSR it was as good as any south asian country.
If force and military power could convert people,then british would have converted Afghanistan to a christian country when they ruled it with brutal force a hundred years ago. If sword can force people to change their ideology them Afganistan should now be the becon of communist rule-Since USSR during its powerful days was actually ruling the country. Even today the whole world is against Afganistan - And right from NATO to all military giants are camping and trying to propogate their value system. But Afghans are rejecting that with every means possible. These afghans are the same people whom you are now accusing of succumbing to Islamic invaders when cluster bombs couldnt subdue them , how could a mere sword will force them?
The TRUTH is contrary to your observation,Afganistan is a standing example that using force to propogate a ideology will never work and never worked no matter how powerful the sword is!!!!
RE:afghanistan, kashmir...
by Tamil natan on Jun 04, 2008 10:19 AM Permalink
The true afghans are long gone - all is left is hybrid Nation of Arabs/Turks male ancestry and with the then Afghan women ancestry.
Afghanistan - 1000 years ago- was the learning centre of South Asia. After the muslim conquest - it became a hostile border region - all the learning centres were destroyed as where there true culture. Now - these people grow breards lives in caves - no difference to a cave man. Few month ago- there was an article - describing how oil painting was invented in what was ancient afghanistan (prior to the muslim destruction). If you read about ancient persia - you will also see how - Persia was a civilization that once rival Rome (Europe). But after the muslim destruction of persia- what is left is just sheep/cattle herdsmen with oil money - but no world class culture and civilization.
The truth is hard to swallow- Islam has destroyed what western and southern Asia - and has made Asia lag behind the European.
RE:RE:afghanistan, kashmir...
by khalid raza on Jun 04, 2008 10:31 AM Permalink
TAMIL...WHEN YOU HINDUS SAY THE HINDUS AND BUDDHIST ARE NO MORE IN AFGHANISTAN...WHY YOU FORGET THAT THOSE HINDUS AND BUDDHISTS CONVERTED TO ISLAM.....BUT YOU PEOPLE TRY TO MEKE OUT AS HINDUS WERE KILLED AND FINISHED AND THE MUSLIMS DECENDED FROM HEVEN.
RE:afghanistan, kashmir...
by balaord on Jun 04, 2008 10:41 AM Permalink
I can list a hundred scientists from the land of Afghanistan after the arrival of Islam. Now I want just one name of the scientist from the same place who lived prior to the arrival of Islam. Now tke this as a challenge. Let me start with the Al-Biruni
A Princeton Mathematician writes in the premier science magazine -American Scientist - The Magazine of Sigma XI,The Scientific reasearch society,it says in its webiste the following
....At a time when Europeans believed that the Earth was flat, Muslim scientists knew how to correct for the Earth's curvature. Two recently discovered instruments have proved that Islamic mathematicians were even further ahead of their time than anyone knew....
RE:afghanistan, kashmir...
by murli nair on Jun 05, 2008 08:21 PM Permalink
You are right, but militant islam converted these moderate muslims into what George Bush calls Islamofacists. From then on, they started their decline.
RE:afghanistan, kashmir...
by sushmita on Jun 04, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
1. am very very interested to hear the rest of the 99 names you have thought of ;-) expertise in chemical weapons isnt exactly my term for scientists.
2. whatever imaginary number you can arrive at, the fact will remain that the non-islamic scientists from a centre of learning before islam arrived will always be many times more than the number during the islamic phase when the education centres were destroyed. come on, this is basic common sense balaord. no, i dont mean schools and colleges - it could even be madarsas where you have more than just religios education .
3. i dont debate the existence of geniuses in islam - if there werent geniuses, the religion would not progress in numbers as much as it has till date.
RE:afghanistan, kashmir...
by nalin tiwari on Jun 04, 2008 10:41 AM Permalink
Converting people was never upon the agenda of Britishers because they knew that business is best kept separate from religion,as rulers they were true professionals & hence never indulged in such pointless things as conversions.No wonder secularism is a western concept.
Contrary to this,islam was spread through violence and coercion hence it perceives any kind of threat be it military,economic, cultural or political as a threat to its ideological existence....it is this very paranoia which is causing bomb blasts world-wide and this carefully crated feeling of paranoia bordering with mania has kept the flock together in the face of cluster bombs. Not only did they convert people by sword they also made sure to kill the sense of logic by systematically destroying tradition of intellectual debates.
It is good to hear that Pakistan and India are done with war making. Hopefully Pakis will not repeat the follies of Kargil. If they do, we will tach them a good lesson. Never trust Pakistan.
