RE:A fable: Straight from Aesop
by Kris iyer on Jul 25, 2008 07:49 AM Permalink
Noel D,
What has your post to do with the main news? Are You working for a Missionary outfit, by any chance? "Noel D" is, perhaps, a Western name given to you by the missionary who converted you? So, in your view, "Manu or whoever" blew a whistle, waved a flag or wrote a book, "whatever", then immediately there was a caste system? Did he have an army to go around India to "enforce" his new system? You are sure also that Manu is still around upholding the caste system? Who talks caste most often in India, Arjun Singh or the "upper-caste" people you meet on a daily basis? Sorry sir, but many people benefit by playing this "caste" tune, to benefit enormously, more than any benefits Manu's "upper castes" may have got. There are "politically powerful" Dalit people in India and BCs and OBCs who own up to 9,000 Crores of assets, who do NOTHING for people of their own caste. Why don't you address them, instead of kneading the same old "Maida" flour?
RE:A fable: Straight from Aesop
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 08:28 AM Permalink
There are "politically powerful" Dalit people in India and BCs and OBCs who own up to 9,000 Crores of assets, who do NOTHING for people of their own caste. Why don't you address them, instead of kneading the same old "Maida" flour?
RE:A fable: Straight from Aesop
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 08:17 AM Permalink
I condemn Hinduism here because the majority is Hindu defenders and accuse others. I cant provoke a Muslim or a christian here. In yahoo, I tried to provoke by going to chritians. But the crowd at those religious forums is so stupid they send me ' Love the lord! he will forgive'. So there is no fun. If christian forum is so stupid, I dont even want to try Islamic forum. More over, since I am an Indian, I know the history very well to post comments here.
"" over construction of a house in a locality dominated by the minority community.""
riots always happen in muslim dominated area. And 90% of the time started by muslims. If their population reaches majority you will be thrown out--example kashmir.
RE:Quite Common in India.
by Pradeep Maithani on Jul 25, 2008 08:07 AM Permalink
very true. Basically India get divided in 3 countries India, Pakistan and later Bangladesh. Since Pakistan and Bangladesh were Muslim majority, it didnt took few years to wipe out hindus from there. Since India's large population was Hindus, so still they survive except Kashmir as Kashmir was also Muslim dominated. Hindu people or "Indians" don't realize the reality in 1000 years of tortures they receive from Muslims and Christians, so they have to get wiped out from India too though it may take few more years. Hindus may not like this but that is the reality if they do not read their history well and unite to survive. But history says they are very poor in getting united, work together and anybody in this world, if unity is not there, has to be out, no matter how intellegent they may be in other things.
RE:cunning omar abdullah backed by pseudo secular media
by Jabby George on Jul 25, 2008 08:03 AM Permalink
His speech was one of the sensible one in the Parliament that i heard on that day apart from Rahul Gandhi's....none of the BJP leaders had the balls to even understand the same forget objecting. Omar Abdullah as a youngster gave a lovely speech...what if a Indian Muslim or Hindu or Christian says that he is what he is?? U creep look at the whole speech...he did clearly mention that kashmir's ain't against Amarnath Yatra n stuff...but yes the world knows if anyone gives u a piece of land suddenly some ling or any God will comeup and then u have strive to build a temple there....with all bloodshed...the stupid Mughals have got into these Hindu fanatics..doubt there's any link from the past...to hell with u all...My India is only the youth who are focused on the development of my country as a superpower and developed economy.
RE:RE:cunning omar abdullah backed by pseudo secular media
by mahender on Jul 25, 2008 08:46 AM Permalink
For the growth u envisage.the fanatic moulavis christian priests who are into evangelism and fanatic hindus has to be thrown out first.
My appeal to hindus, no matter what caste you are, from which region you come, we have to UNITE to defeat anti hindu forces and political parties.There is strenght in unity. Pls make it your mission to defeat the so called secular parties to avoid more damage to hindu sentiments and religious sites.
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Guest on Jul 25, 2008 06:28 AM Permalink
Agree with you. We Hindus are being abused from the North (Amarnath) to the South (Ram Setu). Only solution is to unite and fight the psecs.
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Yash Singh on Jul 25, 2008 06:53 AM Permalink
good reply man..., but my experience.. one can feel the heat when it comes to him, passing comments, giving examples from past and judging your present on past is a really good-good idea.
RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Devavrata Satya on Jul 25, 2008 07:35 AM Permalink
1. Caste is primarily about inclusion, which makes one a member of an extended family spanning regions and languages. Caste created huge barriers in the conversion efforts of Muslims and Christians, which is why these great religions present it as a devise of abuse. 2. A Hindu king defended against Alexander. 3. Please list Hindu kings who helped Muslims destroy Hindu temples. 4. Hindus also fought the British rule and gained independence. 5. Please show documented proof. 6. Please show documented proof.
RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 08:00 AM Permalink
Devavratha, If you cant stand my nonsense, please dont read it or reply to it. This is the only [place in India we have free press. All other press is controlled by censor minded people like you who want to hear and see only the things they like! That's why the same old politicians and polictical parties rule in India!
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by shashi rai on Jul 25, 2008 07:28 AM Permalink
Yes I am agree with you. we have unite and defeat all so called secular face. Now the Indian media playing a great roll of so called seculer. No body can define the true meaning of seculer. It is serious matter and we have unit. Our leader follow the British ruller footstep, Divide and rull. Forget your cast if you want to save your country and you generous community.
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 06:53 AM Permalink
Oh yeah, it is okay if you are scheduled caste or tribe or a dalit and have been treated like worse than animals the past, but now when it comes to rally for their cause, you got to unite with them. Why don't you ask if they had treated you well and not divided Hinduism, there wouldnt be any Muslim or Italian trouble in this ccountry in the first place. We woulnt have had any secular party in the country. After ruining the country for centuries and dividng people, they let the foreigners to dominate this country and now to clean all that they need the dalits again!
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by sunil tripathi on Jul 25, 2008 07:14 AM Permalink
dear friends, how many of you get out to cost your votes on polling. you people do nothing to fight for your cause that is for the cause of hindus. writing on rediff alone is not going to strengthen the hindu's. come on and vote to through out this anti-hindu corrupt government from the power in next election. this will be true endeaver for befitting answer.
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by congo on Jul 25, 2008 07:19 AM Permalink
You seem to be a Convert Christian , who loves to lick 'Pope', because this religion seems to be more civilised to you, that is why you adopted it. It is useless to harp on past and remote past - upper caste dominated lower caste etc centuries ago etc. That way I can say Christians have been brutal till decades ago, putting any 'disbeliever' on stakes, burning them in fire after there 'religious investigations' (I am not recollecting the proper word for that).
SO JUDGE A COUNTRY/COMMUNITY/PERSON BY ITS PRESENT NOT BY THE PAST OF HIS ANCESTORS. THAT WILL LEAD TO ENDLESS MUD SLINGING.
THERE IS NO DOUBT, HUMAN BEING IS SUCH A CREATURE WHO NEEDS AFFILIATION WITH SOME GROUP/IDENTITY/CASTE/RELIGION/CASTE/POLITICAL PARTY/LOBBY/ TO SERVE ITS OWN INTEREST.
Dont comment that "the hindus let the foreigners dominate this country, they helped Ghazani to destroy Hindu temples" and all that crap. Every human behaves according to his survival instincts, including you - who might have converted to Christianity, because it suited your personal mental/psychological/physical convenience- NOT fo the 'love of humanity' SO NOEL D, DONT LABEL (IT IS CALLED STEREOTYPING)A COMMUNITY on the base of its remote past. Tell what are they doing NOW. DONT CLAIM TO BE A 'HOLY COW'.
RE:RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by congo on Jul 25, 2008 07:46 AM Permalink
Then why did you choose to condemn only the Hindus? See the thread in this place, your comment started with this only.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Devavrata Satya on Jul 25, 2008 09:17 AM Permalink
"I condemn Hinduism here because the majority is Hindu defenders and accuse others."
That is a rather shallow reason for condemning Hinduism.
If your chief goal is to have fun by provoking others, go for it!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 08:07 AM Permalink
I condemn Hinduism here because the majority is Hindu defenders and accuse others. I cant provoke a Muslim or a christian here. In yahoo, I tried to provoke by going to chritians. But the crowd at those religious forums is so stupid they send me ' Love the lord! he will forgive'. So there is no fun. If christian forum is so stupid, I dont even want to try Islamic forum. More over, since I am an Indian, I know the history very well to post comments here.
RE:RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Devavrata Satya on Jul 25, 2008 07:43 AM Permalink
Well, claiming to be a non-religious person, you seem to be having great fun abusing the so-called religious zealots!
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by congo on Jul 25, 2008 07:38 AM Permalink
Dear Noel, In your outburst, you forgot to answer or comment on my basic observations/comments. Do you agree with them? By the way ask your parents, were they borne in the land of Pope to be original Christians? If you like to be known by your present, and not the whatever past of your parents/grandparents, then same logic applies to Hindus of any caste.Stop evaluating for infinite ages, the Hindus on the basis of the past which is so obfuscated by several schools of thoughts and actions, that you cant see that Manu was not the only Hindu philosopher(whatever u call him). THERE HAVE BEEN MANY MANY OTHER SAGES/PHILOSOPHERS who have been preaching - oneness of humanity, compassion etc
BY THE WAY NOEL, DONT FORGET TO REPLY MY EARLY MAIL, DONT LOSE COMPOSURE IN THE OUTBURST.
RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 07:58 AM Permalink
Hey Congo, I wasnt mud-slinging at every one. It was aimed at those fake-uniters who keep crying on internet we must unite, oh those convert chritians, muslims as if Hindus were innocent thru out!
Same way you mention abt various aspects of Hinduism, there are reasons for people to convert. Some were converted forcibly, some didnt have anything to eat, some didnt get respecty and some converted for pleasures and money. My messages are all aimed at those idiots who try to brand every one the same when their ancestors (thry caste system) are 50% responsible for all these to happen!
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 10:12 AM Permalink
"Do converted untouchables get respect among Christians ? Why are there Dalit Christians? "
I dont know. Go ask your Christian friends, not me. All I know is that they get some food.
"Caste system is that which has preserved Hinduism, so to blame it for causing conversions is rather silly. Great saints have been produced even among untouchables. "
Caste system preserved only upper caste Hindus and divided this country. It was a good deal for you upper castes. Thats why you praise it. Like I said before, if caste system wasnt there, there would be no Muslims or Europeans invading India because every one would have been fighting them and Muslims and Christians ( I'd rather call them Eurpeans) would not have gotten any Indians to fight for them. Caste system started the whole mess because people who didnt get respect in Hinduism thought let's try and help the unknown to conquer the known evils.(No I am not talking about modern day conversions. I am talking about why we lost so easily to Ghaznis, Ghoris and Europeans even though we had a good population (unlike native Americans) and scientific brains (unlike African tribes) and resistance to all the deseases introduced by Westerners (unlike Aztecs and other South Americans). We are the only country (may be countries) in the world which was divided and was ruled by a small group of people. I blame teh caste system here because if the lower caste people who were majority had gotten decent opportunity for a decent living,
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Devavrata Satya on Jul 25, 2008 10:32 AM Permalink
"I dont know. Go ask your Christian friends, not me. All I know is that they get some food."
Why should I ask this to Christians? It was you who was talking about lack of respect being one of the reasons for conversion.
"Caste system preserved only upper caste Hindus and divided this country."
How? So-called low castes have produced saints and kings and have their own customs and traditions. Your statement is thus ridiculous.
"It was a good deal for you upper castes. Thats why you praise it."
How do you know I am upper-caste?
"Like I said before, if caste system wasnt there, there would be no Muslims or Europeans invading India because every one would have been fighting them and Muslims and Christians ( I'd rather call them Eurpeans) would not have gotten any Indians to fight for them. "
Rank nonsense. Many nations have been invaded and colonised without having a caste system.
"Caste system started the whole mess because people who didnt get respect in Hinduism thought let's try and help the unknown to conquer the known evils."
Why did so many lower castes fight the invaders then?
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by congo on Jul 25, 2008 10:23 AM Permalink
Dear Noel, This persecution in the past by 'ancestors' has become a nice card when some community wants to claim some prerogatives. If the 'atrocities'committed by 'upper castes' on 'lower castes' in the past can become a basis of unending bashing or 'general category', then on similar logic 'all the Muslims' of this land should face persecution, just because their 'ancestors' invaded, looted and killed the locals. By the logic of past, all the history should be dug out, all the sufferers should be identified and given reservations, free grants, free house etc and the descendents of all those perpetratores should be made to suffer the discrimination in all aspects of life, the way the 'general category' Hindu is being victimised.
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 11:51 AM Permalink
Hey Congo, I dont know you are being sarcastic or not. But it is a very good idea! But identifying such things in the corrupt to the core environment is near to impossible!
RE:RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Devavrata Satya on Jul 25, 2008 10:33 AM Permalink
"(No I am not talking about modern day conversions. I am talking about why we lost so easily to Ghaznis, Ghoris and Europeans even though we had a good population (unlike native Americans) and scientific brains (unlike African tribes)"
Do you have figures of native American population? Why do you think African brains are not scientific? You should think about the fact that a period of 500 years elapsed between Mir Qasim taking over Sindh and Ghauri penetrating central India. Indians fought long and hard, and they were colonised despite this, not because of caste system.
"and resistance to all the deseases introduced by Westerners (unlike Aztecs and other South Americans). We are the only country (may be countries) in the world which was divided and was ruled by a small group of people. I blame teh caste system here because if the lower caste people who were majority had gotten decent opportunity for a decent living,"
And they did. They lived quite decently. Only untouchables seem to have suffered, but there are reports even of prosperous untouchables in medieval times.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 11:57 AM Permalink
Ok I made a wrong comment on Africabn brains . I meant to say at the time of invasion, the society in African tribes were not as advanced as Indians. Indians were on par with westerners when it came to knowledge. I was tryong to say
1. Under-population and modern day deseases eliminated native Americnas 2. Small pox and other intentionally intriduced deseases eliminated South Americans 3. Isolation and inadequate exposure to modern times defeated Africans 4. But Indians were well equipped to fight small group of pirates and businessmen. We had all the advantages the above mentioned groups didnt have. We losty due to our in-fighting which was the direct result of categorization and dis-respect!
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by rakesh mishra on Jul 25, 2008 07:04 AM Permalink
Yeah dear just dont forget how the catholics are shitting on the protestants and the shias are shitting on the sunnis its all there in every relegion. Thats the very law of nature ND, and not that in only Hindu relegion the upper caste are shitting and lower are cleaning. Its in all the relegion, its in your house in my house. Its all about the survival of the best and not the relegion or caste.
RE:Hindus Must Unite
by Noel D on Jul 25, 2008 07:12 AM Permalink
That's my point. No one is denying that Christians and Muslims are a-holes.Then why brag abt Hinduism or play victim. It happens in every religion and Hinduism is just another religion.
I know what I am talking about. Hinduism is not based on dogmas that demand unquestioning belief. Hinduism is not about accepting the absurd pronouncements of psychotic prophets, but is about the relentless quest for truth.
