it is sad that the CPM has expelled Somnath from the party. it is illogical and ill conceived but why most of us are abusing the communists or karat etc? in a democracy they have the same rights as us to express their opinions. if they are anti national then who is electing them for last 30 yrs or so in West bengal or kerala. or they also not anti national then? their power also comes from people's support. it is the people who have to throw them out. may be they are doing something fro the common people and not for people who can afford to write rediff forums.
RE:what is democracy?
by Jai Max on Jul 24, 2008 08:38 AM Permalink
That is the problem with the communists. While they can indoctrinate the gullible rural people who are easily swayed by the proletariat rhetoric, they cannot stand up to any well informed discussion in public forums like this. Communist preachings are no different from the fanatic religious discourses of terrorists
RE:what is democracy?
by Jai Max on Jul 24, 2008 08:35 AM Permalink
That is the beauty of democracy. Democracy does not stop even people like Karat whose ultimate aim (according to the doctrines that they believe in) is to establish the dictatorship of the communist party in the country. However, the Karat coterie, while taking advantage of democracy for furthering their objectives do not wish to respect the democratic traditions, which provides them with such freedom of speech.
Just name one contribution by this Prime Minister made during his tenure. Any work for the poor, any constructive work for the economy, any measure in the health care department? Aren't he supposed to be doing exactly that as he got elected by the people? Suddenly he is showing lot of passion for nuclear deal.
Are we sure the media is talking Prakas Karat's name correctly? I'm sure the last word of his name will be spelled F-A-R-T, as he is doing exactly the same thing for past four years. Thankfully these idoits are now out of govertment, so PM can get rid of the dirty smell now.
Since Chatterjee's father was a Hindu Mahasabha leader what is he doing in a Commie outfit? Communism is the most dangerous dogma that shackled and completely destroyed the Bengali nation. Today Bengalis are without religion, without any passion for its culture or heritage, and certainly absolutely no ethnic empathy. While Bangladesh Hindus suffer under Islam these idiots in W Bengal dispute the Genocide and Rapes in E Pakistan. These commie idiots integrate the madrassa system into the School system. Save Bengal from Commies. Shri Somnath Chatterjee should now delve into Hindu scriptures and rediscover his Hindu roots. Join BJP Somnath.
Karat is a headstrong person ruining the party. His intolerance and arrogance are unwarranted. He is thronged by two or three villains who are visibly crooked- Bardhan, Debabrata and Abani Ray.He goes to hell soon with the left in the doc-good thing for the country. Left has lost relevance.
Despite win of UPA in trust vote, I predict that nuclear deal will never be signed. This enthusiasm of readers for the deal is totally misplaced and is due to ignorance. Nuclear deal is far more than an Indian issue, and the international picture is quite complicated.
RE:Nuclear Deal will never be signed
by Jai Max on Jul 24, 2008 07:05 AM Permalink
Do you also believe in astrology like Karat that the conjunction of Sani and Mangal in Leo from June to August is the right time to bring down the government? Can we discus the reasons rather than be just predictive
ndia is a democracy but communism does not believe in it. Communist parties around the world are products of Marxian or Leninist doctrines which do not accept democracy as a mode of governance. Democracy is anathema in communism and people around the world are still fighting to end the dictatorial rules of the communist parties. Indian communists are not democrats by choice. The party organization is run in India just like communist parties run governments the world over. The ultimate aim of communist manifestos is not democracy. It is an irony. While democracy allows communism, communists by their faith do not believe in democracy. In their way of governance, not only governments but also democracy are subservient to the party. It is unrealistic to expect communists to have any respect for democratic institutions. They just want to use Indian democracy as ploy for achieving their ultimate objective of communist dictatorship in the country. Expulsion of the Speaker of the Indian from CPM is only an example of what these communists ultimately want to do with Indian Democracy
RE:Communists have no respect for democracy
by Padmanabhan Manoj Kumar on Jul 24, 2008 07:38 AM Permalink
I accept communist dont respect democracy. But what kind of democracy is the question. The kind of democracy that we saw on 22nd need not be respected at all. In the last 50 years what China has achieved is tremendous. It will take another 100 years for us to build a city like Shanghai or Beijing. Having traveled to many cities across the world i was taken aback by the way in which china has developed in the last 10 years. Development can not only be seen in their buildings, roads, highways and other infrastructure but on the lifestyle of the people as a whole. Go to our cities and see what our kind of democracy has brought to us. I am a supporter of Democracy, but can we proudly say what we have today is Democracy at all. No. One thing is for sure...that the Communist parties are the only parties in India where corruption and fight for power inside the party is the least and expulsion of Somnath from the party despite the fact that he is such a senior leader shows that party discipline is followed irrespective of the position of the individuals. And talking of Dictatorship...can you go alone to a political party leader of your local area and question his actions and come back uninjured and successfully launch a police complaint at the first instance itself. I am closely associated with the legal fraternity and i know what the ground reality is. Even for registering a FIR u will have to move the Court and answer a hundred questions.
RE:Communists have no respect for democracy
by Somik Roy on Jul 24, 2008 09:06 AM Permalink
China is misleading. Do not judge a person by his clothes or his house by his drawingroom. You need to go deep. The labors of China have no say. They are forced laborers, with very little wages viz a viz US & Europe. Thats why Made in China goods are cheap. The billions of Foreign Exchange reserve in dollars have come from Chinese expatriats working abroad.Middle class Indians prefer to remain silent. Nobody wants to raise a voice and then get into trouble with Party goons.Its because of this political parties suppress anyone questioning their motive or integrity. So middle class and poor class stay away from unnecessary harassment.So Political parties enjoy clout by fear and rein of terror. But the truth can never be suppressed long.Wrong karma will have bad repercussions sooner or later. Be it BJP, Congress,Laluji or the Left everyone has to suffer for their misdeeds. Churchill said "Courage is one quality that outshines ever other qualities." Fear and Temptation are the two sticks with which Politicians, Marketers,Businessmen, Priests rule the People."If you do this you will be healthy, wealthy and success, if you don't do you will Lose, suffer and be poor". So beware of any person making promises or claiming to be experts. Be it stock brokers or astrologers or politicians. Use your head believe in God and get ahead in life. There is neither success or failure. Everymoment spent peacefully & happily is the greatest achievement. Don't give examplesof China. Its all boogey.
RE:RE:Communists have no respect for democracy
by Jai Max on Jul 24, 2008 08:08 AM Permalink
Who said it is easy to nurture and preserve democratic traditions. It is indeed a tougher task. Of course communist dictatorship are easier to establish than democracies. The real problem is any kind of dictatorship, be it monarchical or cadre based all lead to same disorders and disasters. Why have so many countries in the world ultimately rejected communism? Is it not the dogma of communism to believe that one day the whole world would come under communist rule? How do you explain country after country saying good bye to communism? Communism is surviving in China because communism in that country is reduced to a mechanism for hanging on to power. It is more capitalistic and dictatorial than many other democratic countries. Do not fall a prey to the easy way out that communism propounds. Democracies are tougher to establish and sustain. But the most important point is that every effort to promote democracy is worth far more than anything done to prop up communism
RE:Communists have no respect for democracy
by Sanjay Chakraborty on Jul 24, 2008 06:17 PM Permalink
On the contrary, the left parties are probably the only polotical organisations in India where collective decisions are taken. Once a policy has been finalised, the party members are expected to strictly adhere to it, whosoever they may be. Contrast this with the so called "democratic parties" where more often than not the decision about party conduct and organisation is left to the "High Command" which usually consists of ONE person or a coterie around him/her. The truth about Chatterjee is that he realised that at his age, once his constituency Bolpur became reserved, this is the end of electoral politics for him. If he was so much concerned about being a non-partisan Speaker, then he should have resigned from the party membership the day he became Speaker following the Westminster model. However at that time Bolpur was not a reserved constituency and Chatterjee harboured future political aspirations. Witness the spectacle of 3 former speakers of the house namely : Shivraj Patil (Union minister), Murli Manohar Joshi (leading the Shiv Sena in LS) and Purno Sangma. Thus the crap about a non political speaker is just that - crap. At this juncuture Chatterjee is trying to ensure his place in Indian Parliamentary history and he's doing a great job od it. First he presided over a house being a member of the Opposition (the Speaker is usually from the ruling party or an ally. Secondly he is expelled from his party for indiscipline and he is to ensure discipline in the Lok Sabha!
RE:Communists have no respect for democracy
by Brij D on Jul 24, 2008 07:16 AM Permalink
What a lousy joke. Can anyone really look at what Manmohan Singh and his friends did to survive the no confidence vote, and still claim that Singh respects the Indian democracy?
RE:Communists have no respect for democracy
by Jai Max on Jul 24, 2008 07:55 AM Permalink
Yes Indian democracy has miles to go. It is unfortunate that all the cross voting is linked to horse trading. What can you expect in a country where bribes are offered to Gods in exchange for bountiful favours. Like offering Rs 101 puja in return for a lakh of rupees lottery perhaps. This however does not go to prove that communism is better than democracy. If there has been corruption, then these must be probed and penalised. Two wrongs never add up to anything right
Soniaji was ready to sacrifice her government for the sake of country and took the challenge of commies head on. She gave a back breaking reply by winning the confidence motion. Now Soniaji without wasting any time should sign the deal in letter and spirit. This deal will make us energy sufficient to a great deal and take us to an accelerated path to economic prosperity and development. May God give Soniaji strength and life to make India a world power in the years to come.
The statement by Bose saying "Somnath Chatterjee might have acted according to the Indian Constitution, but our party has its own constitution and decisions are taken as per party rules," is Clearly in BAD TASTE. "Communist Constitution is not above Indian Constitution" For a person who handled the parliamentary proceedings so well on that event day, he deserves to be the Speaker and He should continue till his term in Office. What ever be the reason of the CPI-M not to go with the congress, IS A SINGLE FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE GREATER THAN THE WELFARE OF THE WHOLE NATION. The Communists who speak so well of for th cause of the poor and the downtrodden would better had adjusted with the govt for the welfare of poor and for a Greater cause of India. At the end of the Day, it is the CPI-M which has lot a lot of stake and it will be shown in their poor performance in coming Elections. Today after 4 years of this Govt, Congress has performed better than what was expected, CPI-M has been hit, by it's Nadigrams and decisions of Backward looking decisions of Karat. BJP doesnt know what is to be done, looking confused. Mayawati - quite ambitious- having just 17 MP's and wants to become CM.
Given a choice the coalition which let the congress to trust vote victory seems to a better One.
End of Day - What Rahul Gandhi told that We as Indians should live like Indians rather than separate party afflicted individuals.
Welfare of Whole of India is more important than any Foreign Ideology.
RE:Bad Taste
by mohamed ajmal on Jul 24, 2008 05:31 AM Permalink
The statement by Bose saying "Somnath Chatterjee might have acted according to the Indian Constitution, but our party has its own constitution and decisions are taken as per party rules," is Clearly in BAD TASTE.
"Communist Constitution is not above Indian Constitution"
For a person who handled the parliamentary proceedings so well on that event day, he deserves to be the Speaker and He should continue till his term in Office. What ever be the reason of the CPI-M not to go with the congress, IS A SINGLE FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE GREATER THAN THE WELFARE OF THE WHOLE NATION. The Communists who speak so well of for th cause of the poor and the downtrodden would better had adjusted with the govt for the welfare of poor and for a Greater cause of India. At the end of the Day, it is the CPI-M which has lot a lot of stake and it will be shown in their poor performance in coming Elections. Today after 4 years of this Govt, Congress has performed better than what was expected,
CPI-M has been hit, by it's Nadigrams and decisions of Backward looking decisions of Karat. BJP doesnt know what is to be done, looking confused. Mayawati -quite ambitious- having just 17 MP's and wants to become PM!
Given a choice the coalition which let the congress to trust vote victory seems to a better One.
End of Day - What Rahul Gandhi told that We as Indians should live like Indians rather than separate party afflicted individuals.
Welfare of Whole of India is more important than any Foreign Ideology.
RE:Bad Taste
by Somik Roy on Jul 24, 2008 09:34 AM Permalink
I too was certainly bowled over by Rahul's speech. I am no admirer of the Gandhi family, yet Rahul's speech was simple and yet logical. I am not in favor of the Nuclear Deal because it will be India's White Elephant in coming centuries, of which I had explained elsewhere in my several posts at Rediff Forum. By calling himself an Indian and not a politician he has certainly made an impression. I only hope his deeds are as good as his words in the future. No more repeat of Bofors and such other scams in the future. We look forward to Rahul as a politician for the young generation. But he needs to groom himself up and come out of the BabaLog syndrome. He has to learn the ropes from the grassroots and then should he try to enter real politics. He should not get catapulted to the PM's chair by the Congress Sycohnats, just like they did with Rajiv Gandhi. Rajiv was misleeded by his Doon school cronies and the chamchas in his party. Its sad he lost his life too early in life. Rahul and Priyanka both nice and polite must be weary of those who hang around them talking sweet. They must first get to the bottom of India's problem and find an indegenous soultion. They should not listen to anglophile Corporate guys or Havard educated politicians and Indians. Rahul as he said he is a Indian first, is very much like Vivekanada's speech at Chicago "My Brothers and Sisters of America" that won hearts in the US when he went there to explain Indian philosophy of life.
I had earlier said that Somenath will be the only Bakra in this no-confidence vote. It is good to see the fall of a communist .... and I am glad. However, there is an irony.
If you have good command over english and have political ambition, join cpim.
Karat(s), Yechuri etc. cannot win a councillor election on their own but since they are eloquent english speaker, the Ghoshes and Boses remain awestruck servant to these non-entities. only in cpm.
RE:Somenath Bakra
by Soumitree Ghose on Jul 24, 2008 05:47 AM Permalink
hi hari... though a certain part of ur speech is true - dat good oratory is indeed an asset in the cpi-m...it's obvious that u hvnt hrd somnath speak in english - else u wud hve realised that it's the karats & yechuris who are in awe struck of this cambridge educated 'chatterjee'!!
'awestruck servant' - jus' bcos the central committee sumwat feels it's 'easier' to handle the ppl who're not from bengal...so u see such 'non-entities' holding the G-Sec post!
the only irony here is dat - the only communist who's falling here - is falling becos he protested the folly of the communists!! DAT is the irony my friend!
RE:Somenath Bakra
by hari ray on Jul 24, 2008 06:38 AM Permalink
dimitry, as a bengali i know that we place lot of emphasis on english speaking. So, Biman Bose et all are 2nd class citizens in CPM Politbureau (that is why Basuji made such a smooth progress in WB party). I have heard Somenath in TV debates, he is not a very eloquent speaker and gets emotionally charged up.
