Indian media, it seems, has made sure that the people using terms like secularism have no idea of the meaning of the terms.
The language of discourse about politics in India has become so far disconnected from reality (by which I mean definitions of the words used), that the surrealism has been left long behind, and we are now in the territory of incomprehensible anarchy in thought patterns and in communications. The French spend a lot of time and effort in keeping their language working and accurate. In India, neglect and deliberate twisting of language has led to lunacy being mainstreamed. Nobody in the media or the politics knows what things really mean anymore. Everybody is just carrying along with the momentum of the warped rhetoric first created by the congress party and then perfected by most anti-Hindu parties.
Pl read some more history. The general policy of most of the rulers during the 700 years of Muslim occupation of India was to systematically replace the fabric of Hindu society and culture with a Muslim culture. They tried to destroy Indian religions, language and places of knowledge (universities e.g Nalanda and Taxshila were totally destroyed by Muslims). They destroyed and desecrated places of thousands of temples including Somnath, Mathura, Benaras, Ayodhaya, Kannauj, Thaneswar and in other places. There was wholesale slaughter of the monks and priests and innocent Hindus with the aim to wipe out the intellectual bedrock of the people they overran.
The Muslims could not subjugate India with ease and were never able to rule it entirely. There was a valiant and ceaseless struggle for independence by Hindus to deliver India from Muslim tyranny. The Rajputs, Jats, Marathas and Sikhs led this struggle in North India. In the South this struggle was embodied in the Vijayanagar Empire. This struggle culminated when the Marathas ended the Muslim domination of India.
RE:@ Secular Indian
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 08:18 PM Permalink
Raj Thakre is not against any religion. He is against the unchecked exhodus of people from UP and Bihar into Mumbai. the infrastructure in Mumbai cannot take the load of any more migrants (be they from any part of the country or of any religion).
You are just trying to camoflage the real threat of religius fundamentalism by diverting the topics to some irrelevant subjects.
RE:@ Secular Indian
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 08:34 PM Permalink
Toilet cleaners think that all others are also doing the same job!!!!!!!!!!! And what a great culture you have displayed on the net!!! a true follower of the "most merciful creator"!!!!!!!!
RE:RE:@ Secular Indian
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 08:28 PM Permalink
Hate only breeds hate. Yesterday, Shiv Sena was opposing South Indians today they are opposing North Indians. Not to mention permanent hatred towards Muslims and Christians.
RE:@ Secular Indian
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 08:14 PM Permalink
Your imagination only is troubling you. You are talking of fighting with ghosts and shadows.
RE:RE:@ Secular Indian
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 08:20 PM Permalink
aoneall, You will learn only when you people get slaughtered or are forced to convert by the fanatic muslims.
Btw why there are still Dalits in UP where the muslims ruled for nearly 600 years? If the muslim kings were so generous or the dalits were treated as equals by the muslims they would have converted to Islam at that time itself.
RE:@ Secular Indian
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 08:26 PM Permalink
What is the wrong with conversion? Dr. Ambedkar got converted. Buddhism was his choice. It could have been Islam also.
RE:@ Secular Indian
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 08:30 PM Permalink
No, he would not have converted to Islam or Christianity as he was aware that it would be more harmful to the natives. And of course the ideals of Buddhism are much more refined than the principles of any other religion in the world (I am not a Buddhist).
When Owaisi is talking so openly about muslims, there is no problem to media, but when Thackeray or Modi speaks, they are shown as anti secular. Its the media who is taking sides.
RE:Biased
by SachinTheGreat on Jul 20, 2008 07:59 PM Permalink
Do U think the statements of Owaisi about Partition of India are to defend themselves, Try to understand when Muslims were 25% of Indian population bfore 1947 they demanded for separate country, What is the Guarantee than they will not ask again....................
RE:Biased
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 08:03 PM Permalink
We have a secular constitution. So far everybody is loyal to the constitution of India, there is no problem with Hindu or Muslim or any body else.
RE:Biased
by SachinTheGreat on Jul 20, 2008 08:08 PM Permalink
We have Secular Constitution but we have Pseudo-Secular parties like Congress who care more for 13.4% Muslims bcoz they are their vote-bank......................
RE:Biased
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 08:09 PM Permalink
But that would last only till the muslims are a sizable population. Once they are in majority, the would demand imposition of Islamic laws! Thank the founding fathers of our Country for making it a secular democratic republic despite the animosities during the partition.
In Gujrat riots most of Dalits were involved in rioting of Muslims, Muslims started riots thru Godhra Carnage to which Hindu's started all rioting in retaliation to that act.
RE:Dalits consider Muslims as their enemies......................
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 07:54 PM Permalink
some of they are misguided by BJP in the name of patriotism!
RE:Dalits consider Muslims as their enemies......................
by SachinTheGreat on Jul 20, 2008 07:57 PM Permalink
I am not supporter of BJP or RSS but that retaliation was natural and Dalits were also involved..................
RE:Dalits consider Muslims as their enemies......................
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 08:05 PM Permalink
It is easy for RSS to misguide poor, illeterate Dalits. Nothing else! Don't read too much into it.
It is money power, and nothing else. If Mr. Owaisi is a British trained barrister, he should have watched his words carefully before uttering them. Well anyway he has said what everyone knows.
RE:It is fair
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 07:45 PM Permalink
aoneall, do you know what is the ideology of the muslims? The muslims view worldly life as a constant physical battle between the House of Peace (Dar al-Salaam) and the House of War (Dar al-Harb). Their only motto is to convert the whole word into their religon and establish an Islamic Caliphate.
Once they are in majority, the first to be affected will be the Dalits.
RE:It is fair
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 07:48 PM Permalink
To defeat BJP, cooperation with Muslims is a strategy for Dalits. Muslims are lesser evil than BJP.
RE:It is fair
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 07:58 PM Permalink
Have you read The Panchatantra? There are some fine examples of the outcome of short-sightedness in that.
RE:It is fair
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 08:06 PM Permalink
Nothnig is worse than being a Dalit. To know this, you do not need to read any Panchtantra or anything else. You simply have to be a Dalit. That's it!
RE:It is fair
by All Right on Jul 21, 2008 08:43 AM Permalink
Not true. There are many other worse things.
- Such as seeing your family die of hunger in front of you..
- Getting robbed, betrayed, and not getting justice when you go to the police station..
- Electing your leaders with a warm glow in your heart and be shunned by the same guy when he becomes powerful...
- having to bribe officials to get what was rightfully yours anyway..
- having to commit suicide because of failing crops and government's total ignorance to the pathetic situation of agriculture...
- etc. etc. etc. .
There are many things aoneall..... MOST of the Indian population goes through it... why do you think each and every dalit is going through it?.. I doubt Mayawati has any grievance on that front...
RE:It is fair
by Secular Indian... on Jul 20, 2008 08:02 PM Permalink
As if Muslims didnt rule for 950 years before the british. If the motto was such, you wouldnt be hear to write a message by now, rather would be in some Masjid.
RE:It is fair
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 08:05 PM Permalink
Secular Indian, pl read some more history...The general policy of most of the rulers during the 700 years of Muslim occupation of India was to systematically replace the fabric of Hindu society and culture with a Muslim culture. They tried to destroy Indian religions, language and places of knowledge (universities e.g Nalanda were totally destroyed by Muslims). They destroyed and desecrated places of thousands of temples including Somnath, Mathura, Benaras, Ayodhaya, Kannauj, Thaneswar and in other places. There was wholesale slaughter of the monks and priests and innocent Hindus with the aim to wipe out the intellectual bedrock of the people they overran.
The Muslims could not subjugate India with ease and were never able to rule it entirely. There was a valiant and ceaseless struggle for independence by Hindus to deliver India from Muslim tyranny. The Rajputs, Jats, Marathas and Sikhs led this struggle in North India. In the South this struggle was embodied in the Vijayanagar Empire. This struggle culminated when the Marathas ended the Muslim domination of India.
RE:RE:It is fair
by aoneall on Jul 20, 2008 08:09 PM Permalink
Life of animal is better in India than the life of a Dalit. Forgot Holy Cow? Every Dalit knows it. No point trying to mislead. No takers!
RE:It is fair
by JGN on Jul 20, 2008 08:12 PM Permalink
You will learn only when you people get slaughtered or are forced to convert by the fanatic muslims.
why is eveyone talking abt muslim votes? come on, muslims constitutes only 13% of the total population rt? or more? Yes, more fr sure. if they were 13%, then they woundnt have been a deciding factor everytime. hindus = 83%?? loll.
God Save this country from these kantaree politicians.
RE:muslims = 83%??
by SachinTheGreat on Jul 20, 2008 07:38 PM Permalink
U Fool 50% of Hindus dont vote at all, Most of Hindus are divided on cast lines, Most of low caste Hindus vote to either BSP or Congress, Most of tribals and OBS's vote for Regional Parties and Congress.
Muslims on the other hand vote like there is no tomorrow, Most of the Muslims turn out during voting and vote for Congress or Samajwadi Party.
If Muslims were more than 13.4% then why MIM party only has 2 MP's in Parliment.
Once a King asked his courtiers to write a poem in praise of a newly constructed light-house and offered rewards for the best one.
Kunchan Nambiar, the great satirist of Kerala wrote "the light-house is wonderful, I also should get the reward". Our politicians are in the same category!
