Indias metopolitian cities as for as i know about bombay suberbs are suffring power cuts in a shameful way for the country, of 8hrs,4/4hrs in the morning and evening. is a disgraceful way to live, Our UPA goverment is doing the needful, by the advice of our experts and scientist etc, i hope it will help our India to get selfreliant in the Power sector. thank you
RE:No reason to stop the Necular deal
by Ram Aud on Jul 19, 2008 12:05 AM Permalink
"We are a parliamentary democracy, the world's fourth largest economy, a big financial and consumer market, liberal, secular, English-speaking with Anglo-Saxon laws, judiciary and accounting, a professional bureaucracy and a strong, independent media."
The above are from this article..wondering if Congress is spoiled the country who made the above?
RE:No reason to stop the Necular deal
by Hate Who divides on Jul 19, 2008 01:09 AM Permalink
that is dynamicity of people of India ............ never think congress had done any thing .....they have made India a big fail in war politics ....... Now once again they are trying to to do with Ndeal
RE:No reason to stop the Necular deal
by Ram Aud on Jul 19, 2008 05:16 AM Permalink
All the good is because of people of India and all the bad is because of congress. Well said. But, can you name one party in India which represents every cast, region, religion? People are always same..if a religion fundamental parties ruled this country for long time, sure india also will be competing with pakistan today. Be pround that we're indians and we're secular, we're development oriented,... World is recognizing India just because of that.
RE:No reason to stop the Necular deal
by Nandakumar Chandran on Jul 19, 2008 12:22 AM Permalink
congress did not create this country or society - it has existed 5000 years before the existence of the congress. congress merely (mis)ruled this country for a few decades. india's current economic success is inspite of congress policies which strangled the indian economy for decades. nor has it really encouraged democracy - within the party or without where indira gandhi imposed emergency. so pretty much all the negatives can be attributed to the congress - but hardly any of the achievments.
First have clarity on How many tonnes of nuclear fuel would be delivered to India along with dispatch schedules and at what price.
How much of it can be readily used in our current reactors.
What is the project cost of setting up nuclear reactors. Will IAEA fund it for signing the deal?
What will be the cost per unit generation. How much of this power will be made available for poor farmers in India free of charge for signing the deal? for what duration?
BJP opposition should be not be only for clause regarding testing of N-Device.It is better that deal should be redrafted.The deal ties us to FMCT and MCTR treaty unnecessarly.To have better deal,how US convinces its Non-Poliferation Lobby(seems only excuse)etc is their problem.The US has lot of stakes in having strong and ecnomicaly strong India.In evolving world US and world community at large will find more benifitial to be with India than otherwise.India offers top cream-Intelligent,hardworking and enterprising Human resource via its heritage,culture and family values.If research in alternate energy resources,complex Space(intra-Terrestrial human settelements)is to be taken to logical end then world needs to nurture India.This evolving cream will only flourish,if India is left in peace with itself. Before that world community has to fight current,immediate impediments like Global warming,Terrorism etc.Global Warming-See how only Eastern parts of India are flooded and rest has remained dry,2to3 years back harsh summer in France following which many aged people died,recent flooding of Iowa in US,Katrina etc etc..This global warming has to be fought by making open/transperent world dealings.Only blaming China and India for this, due to faster economic growths won't solve the problem(Mr Clinton did the same blame game 2-3 days before).Joint and sincere efforts by world community are needed. Regarding Terrorism everyone knows about it and is widely debated.
This N-Deal is only about the Political Pressure to Sell off Indian Sovereignity to the Western World.
A lot of Projects are initiated to Mine Indian Uranium And All of them are destined to deliver by 2009 or 2010.
Any Mining will not take more than 1.5yrs to start production.
This Con-gress wants to push this deal And Then Say, But for this Deal, we would have had NO Uranium.
We Are abt to get Self-Sufficiency by 2010. And All Western Countries are eager to Mine Uranium from Indian Mines. May be, We even have a lot more Uranium Reserves than publicised.
R Chidambaram(Top Nuclear Scientist) Says that Only 2.86%(4000 MW) of Total Installed Capacity(140000 MW) is N Energy. And At 50% utilisation, That means only 1.43% of N Energy of Total Consumption. i.e., Just 21 Minutes per day.
Thus The Hurry for the Deal And Citing Dearth of N-Fuel is just a Bluff of the Con-gress Govt.
RE:Just another Year
by Harsha K on Jul 18, 2008 07:00 PM Permalink
France gets close to 80% of its energy from Nuclear plants. So, it isn't a constraint of technology, it is constraint that we have set for ourselves due to unavailability of usable Fission material.
RE:Just another Year
by frankfurt boy on Jul 19, 2008 12:03 AM Permalink
Then it is quite easy to return the Uranium fuel we buy from abroad. (If we test)
the above article is well put. let us not bring its supporters and detractors in to it. only facts on whether it is beneficial to India or not? some more facts as published by the govt sources. total power generated in India 126000.out of this coal based 65%, hydel 27%, solar , wind etc , nuclear 3% to double nuclear power the investment needed is 50000 crores.so it is going to be much costlier . same amount spent for alternate energy will lead to much higher power generation.plus india has enough uranium :it needs to be mines. also the technology for using thorium of which we have plenty is already developed . only implementation is needed. no wonder USA or for that matter ,UK ,France, Russia and china do not want that to happen.no wonder both china and pakistan or happy with the deal. the nuclear powers tried to get india to sign NPT which so far India has resisted. this is a way through the back door. i feel we should not go ahead with the deal unless in parliament the real reasons for the deal are disclosed . it can even be in camera and restricted to leaders of prominent parties if any thing is that confidential but the benefits must be known.
RE:Nuclear deal for what?
by Kachwala on Jul 19, 2008 12:04 AM Permalink
But then why APJ Kalam supported the deal? Is he nuts? If you have missed his interview, it is on NDTV.
There is another side of this, India is all alone in this world, may be like Iran. How long we can continue like this. Why should we can sign this agreement and join with US as Israel or Pakistan. Even if we didn’t sign CTBT or NPT, how much chance is left for us to do another N-test? If we don’t have much chance then why we are keeping it emblematic. Instead why not we signing it and better being friendly with USA, which may increase our business relation and security treats. Also when we are not having enough Uranium in stock. Thorium reactors will take another 20-30years. Or is there a real chance for further negotiations, for us to keep our rights and getting Uranium from others? Why should other countries give us Uranium?
RE:do we have more options??
by krishnan on Jul 18, 2008 07:06 PM Permalink
so this deal is not about energy at all.if we sign the deal we cannot test nuclear weapons, as you say if we do not sign we will not get uranium . if we are not going to test the weapons , then which is the better option? then we should bargain with america to make us member of security council at least..in the mean time devlop local capability.Look at china.s deal. no wonder the govt does not want it to be discussed openly in parliament.
RE:do we have more options??
by Sandipan Sengupta on Jul 18, 2008 06:51 PM Permalink
Well said. I think we are trying to hide under the US even though we are fully capable of defending ourselves to any threat. We already have lots of problems on security side and I donot understand why we are trying to increase it by going for the deal. I can't understand why we are giving away our freedom and sovereignity just for a mere 2.9% of increase of power.
I would like to know where are the people who were till now shouting for the deal. I think all of them have vanished after reading this article. An extremely thought prvocating article
The author is by and large correct. Readers may log on to site cfr.org. Go to "publications by type" and check out the materials concerning the deal appearing on July 15 and July 14. It will give a good idea how the American side sees this agreement.
1. It presumes Congress and a lot of people who support N-Deal are either idiots or traitors, who are hell bent on trading away India's security.
2. It tells that we are signing an NPT by signing nuclear deal, where as Argument only shows how it'd be equal to signing CTBT (not NPT). NPT prohibits all nations (except 5) from having a military use of Nuclear technology. This apparently isn't the case with this deal.
3. CTBT is a good deal to sign in any case! The idea of a Nuclear weapon is that it is a threat. It is ridiculous to keep thinking we'll need more and more sophisticated ones is not understanding the nature of that weapon. It is the threat of a strike back that works as a deterent, not the sophistication. Even the crudest Atomic weapon can do that job. Besides most modern weapon testing is computerised simulations anyway. 123agreement allows us to get all dual use technology. Once the technology barrior is gone, we can get sumulation technology from countries like France/Russia.
So, what this article argues just doesn't make whole lot of sense.
Whatever the Author assumes about N-Deal Supporters, It is the Onus of those people to Prove Otherwise.
SOPhistication of Weapons is Required for Three things. One, COST CUTTING in the Use & Maintanence of Nuclear Weapons. Two, Making the Weapon More Secure in Both Handling and Delivery. Three, Making the Bomb So that It Hits and Destroys on the Reqd Target and Not Kill All the Unneccessary People. So That, The Users of the Bomb doesn't create unnecessary enemies in the Future.
Senseless Supports of the Deal are Speaking as if USA will just keep mum after the Deal is Signed. USA Shall keep pressurising more and more after the Deal is Done. The Potential Risks are the One to be Comtemplated Carefully in Advance.
Indian history has lot of Traitors. And It is the Duty of ALL patriotic Indians to believe that the Way the Deal is being Pushed by the Minority Govt Lead by a Rajya Sabha MP supported by a Foreigner Who (Honey) Trapped iin 1968 a male from the PM's Family - of India which was getting Closer to Testing its First Atom Bomb in Late Sixties.
RE:RE:Flawed thinking.
by Harsha K on Jul 18, 2008 06:49 PM Permalink
You are for sophisticating a technology that if used can't be controlled. The only usage of which was some 50 odd years ago, and the results were so horrible that it is unlikely that a sane govt. will ever use it again.
So, the only reason to have a deterrence is to make sure insane states like China or Pakistan don't attack us with nuclear weapons. Having a proven weapon and a proven delivery method is sufficient to keep them at bay.
Besides, it underestimates the strength of India to think that it can be armtwisted just because a deal is signed!
You know what - worst case situation is that an investment of close to $100billion would go down the drain.
While that's a lot of money, it isn't a lot for a nation like India, if it wants to do it. It will in no way ruin us, the way people make it out to be.
RE:Flawed thinking.
by Dheeraj Nagpal on Jul 18, 2008 06:23 PM Permalink
Some comments Harsha on what you are saying.
1. It presumes Congress and a lot of people who support N-Deal are either idiots or traitors - This is truth, not a presumption.
2. It tells that we are signing an NPT by signing nuclear deal, where as Argument only shows how it'd be equal to signing CTBT - It doesn't say equal. It just gives the extent to which it will be difficult to do further test.
3. Once the technology barrior is gone, we can get sumulation technology from countries like France/Russia. - In your dreams. I haven't read anywhere that India gets access to sophisticated computers and supercomputers after signing this treaty (something needed for simulations).
RE:Flawed thinking.
by Harsha K on Jul 18, 2008 06:43 PM Permalink
Dheeraj,
That's very presumptive. Some of our best scientists, Our ex-President have come in support of this deal. To call them idiots or traitors is to presume only one view can be right in the world.
I am not saying there isn't a case against the Nuclear deal, but then we are no close to being accepted as a Nuclear Weapons nation and NPT won't be amended. This is the best alternative.
And it is a falsehood that's spread by many that you need to keep testing nuclear weapons to be sure it works. It is science, and if you have the weapon that worked in 5 tests that we have done till date, no reason why it won't all of a sudden not work.
And besides, only Idiots & traitors seem to be thinking about the futility of actually wanting to go on a nuclear war!!
RE:Flawed thinking.
by Dheeraj Nagpal on Jul 20, 2008 11:24 AM Permalink
Really, I don't see anywhere any scientist supporting the deal except for the "Ex-President" and don't give me this statement that he is the best scientist.
He could be definitely the most famoust one in India but definitely not the best. And for every one like him, there are 10 in India who would recommend against the deal.
As far as traitors or idiots are concerned, just read statements from Govinda (one of the Congress MP). Others have refrained from saying anything else you will hear similiar level of intelligence from them too. I never was against nuclear deal till 3 days ago when I actually started reading this statements from our "Intelligent" MPs.
Third, again you are limiting your myopic view to the same 5 tests that India did. No-where will those tests brings India into the level of Nuclear capability of other nuclear powers. Not in terms of weapons but even in terms of capability to develop those weapons. I don't drive a car, neither do I need to but I keep a license. This is also the same logic albeit at a higher level of stakes which makes it even more important that we don't lose the right to tests untill we are sure that we can develop our nuclear capability without any tests.
For your last statement, remember you need not be an "Idiot" to go to a nuclear war. You just need another "Idiot" to start it. But maybe this thought is too difficult to be understood by our "INTELLIGENT" brains.
