when the whole nation is divided into the issue of 123 agreements,etc etc we should request the all time great polytician Mr.Atal Bihari Bajpayee. He is the only living leader who is respected by all the communities. He was the man who started bus to lahore, it means he started a new relations with pakistan which congress is trying to take credit. After Subhash Bose (Netaji), he represent the indian mass. So we all should request him & takes his opinion as he is a true examle of sovereignity. we all know he was the 1st man who delivered his speech in Hindi in UN assembly. I hope congress will take his opinion regarding this whole issue.
RE:call Mr bajpayee
by somnath bhattacharya on Jul 13, 2008 12:20 AM Permalink
so what!!..credibility can not judge by the dirty polytics & number game
RE:call Mr bajpayee
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 12:27 AM Permalink
So if credibility gets smeared by Dirty Politics and Number Game, then that is what we have today in UPA surviving the floor test.
RE:call Mr bajpayee
by TIGER MAN on Jul 13, 2008 12:29 AM Permalink
somnath bhattacharya ...YEP YOU ARE RIGHT...HE IS THE ONLY BJP LEADER WHO CAN COME TO POWER ...AS LONG AS HE CAN JUST MOVE HE IS STILL THE BEST LEADER....OTHERWISE BJP WILL HAVE TO SUPPORT COMMUNISTS ,ETC...IN THE COMMING GENERAL ELECTIONS BECAUSE NO ONE IS GOING TO GET A MAJORITY....BUT IT SHOULD NOT SURPRISE ANYONE IF ONE TIMES KINGS ..CONGRESS ...DOES NOT MANAGE TO GET EVEN 100 SEATS...
RE:call Mr bajpayee
by PN Srivastava on Jul 13, 2008 02:38 AM Permalink
Dear Friend Recall,MMS meeting Mr. Atal Behari Bajpai and acknowledging"Sir,You started the deal,and I am finishing it" We have very good persons in Indian politics.We are alwayslooking at wrong side .
USA and China were two staunch adversaries in the 60’s but that did not stop them from extending a friendly hand when Nixon visited there in 70’s. They joined hands, remain cautious friends and recognize each other’s strengths and respect it. Today China has joined the world stage and is considered the next giant. USA and China still remain cautious of each other but it does not stop them from moving forward.
What is important: Can India live up to the conditions stipulated in the agreement? I feel that government should know since they are managing plants today. India is a responsible nuclear power and should not worry about the clause 103. India will continue to be nuclear power and that would be a deterrent that did not exist with Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran.
INDIA SHOULD ONLY DEAL WITH RUSSIA IN NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY...USA CAN NEVER BE TERUSTED .USA HAS ALWAYS PROVIDED TERRORIST PAKISTAN WITH LARGE SUMS OF ARMS AND MONEY SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE THEIR TERRORIST ACTIVITIES IN INDIA . IN THE 1971 INDO PAK WAR....USA SENT 2 NUCLEAR WARSHIPS TOWARDS INDIA THREATINING INDIA THAT THEY WILL BOMB INDIA WITH NUCLEAR BOMBS UNTIL INDIA WITHDRAWS FROM PAKISTAN...USSR SEEING THESE USA THREATS SENT 4 NUCLEAR WARSHIPS TOWARDS THE USA ONES ...SEEING THIS THE USA QUICKLY TURNED BACK.. REALLY SPEAKING THE USA CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED
RE:tiger200002
by cynic on Jul 13, 2008 12:12 AM Permalink
and by the way Rockefeller foundation(from US) initiated Green revolution in India by providing technology and money.
RE:RE:RE:tiger200002
by TIGER MAN on Jul 13, 2008 12:48 AM Permalink
USA HAS ALWAYS SUPPLIED AND IS STILL SUPPLING TERRORIST PAKISTAN TERRORIST PAKISTAN WITH LARGE AMOUNTS OF CASH AND ARMS...
RE:RE:tiger200002
by TIGER MAN on Jul 13, 2008 12:46 AM Permalink
USA HAS ALWAYS SUPPLIED AND IS STILL SUPPLING TERRORIST PAKISTAN TERRORIST PAKISTAN WITH LARGE AMOUNTS OF CASH AND ARMS...
RE:tiger200002
by cynic on Jul 13, 2008 12:10 AM Permalink
where did you get this exaggerated story from any source ? Although US did send some ships, the purpose was never known.
RE:tiger200002
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 12:15 AM Permalink
Do not live in the past. Everybody had compulsions at that time for reeasons well known to all.
RE:Problem Not with IAEA Safeguards Agreement
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 12:08 AM Permalink
Please understand the US legislative system. A treaty (agreement) signed by a President has to be ratified by the US Congress.
Hyde Act is an act that governs future actions of US Government in reaching any agreements with any foreign country.
For US Congress to ratify this 123 agreement, ity will have to amend the Hyde Act that will exempt US Government for India.
RE:Problem Not with IAEA Safeguards Agreement
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 12:15 AM Permalink
The Hyde Act is only a bogey for Knickerwallahs and Commies
First of all, tell me one mention of Hyde Act in either the 123 Agreement or IAEA Safeguard Agreement. The fact is that there is none.
If any, there is only an indirect reference -
"Each Party shall implement this Agreement in accordance with its respective applicable treaties, national laws, regulations, and license requirements concerning the use of nuclear energy for peaceful purpose".
The reality is that there is no mention of Hyde Act specifically under the 123 Agreement or in the IAEA Safeguard Agreement. Only indirectly through mention of operable "national laws". But this mention of "national laws" is mutual. This means if Hyde Act is a domestic law of the US, we can have a law exactly reverse of the Hyde Act. In a dispute, we are bound by our national laws while the US is to theirs -creating a legal gridlock. The Hyde Act in reality is a toothless tiger!
RE:Problem Not with IAEA Safeguards Agreement
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 12:20 AM Permalink
"national laws" here means that until each government passes this agreement, it does not come into force.
ARTICLE 103 of safeguards agreement is dangerous for India. Even for minor non-compliance from part of India with the safeguards agreement, IAEA can report to Security Council to take military action against India. Please read the article given below.
"103. If the Board determines in accordance with Article XII.C of the Statute of the Agency that there has been any non-compliance by India with this Agreement, the Board shall call upon India to remedy such non-compliance forthwith, and shall make such reports as it deems appropriate. In the event of failure by India to take full remedial action within a reasonable time, the Board may take any other measures provided for in Article XII.C of the Statute."
“To make such reports as it deems fit” - is the UN language for saying "report for military action to security council".
This article 103 must be corrected to the effect that in case of non-compliance, IAEA can decide to stop or reduce further supply of nuclear material for a definite or indefinite term and the decision to be reviewed annually by IAEA.
Why? We know last year IAEA nearly recommended military action against Iran, It is a political body and if in future Indo US relation becomes bad, US can do this kind of things.
RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by All Right on Jul 12, 2008 11:54 PM Permalink
RE:Dangerous Article 103 - Lead to sanctions or Military Action against India by All Right on Jul 12, 2008 11:52 PM Permalink India should have some integrity not to divert assistance under the deal for making bombs.
The deal provides us the right to make bombs using our technology and fuel or provided by supplier countries like Russia who do mind such assistance to be so diverted.
The US on the other hand while seeking to support our civilian program do not want such leakages. We cannot force the US to change this policy. But we can take advantage of it without causing harm to our own security needs. This all what the deal is about.
So should we stoop to imitate Iraq, only then we would have a problem with IAEA. If we comply then we should have no problems
RE:RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by Joy Abraham on Jul 13, 2008 12:13 AM Permalink
If the world was so strightforward, life would have been so easy. If Future Indian govt does anything to the dislike of western countries (like Zimbabwe's Mugabe nationalising white's farms) tjhey will use this trap to slap sanctions on India or military action against India. This is the danger. ANY non-compliance can be easily found in such complex deals-not necessarily using the fuel to make bombs.
RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 12:39 AM Permalink
The problem with the commies that their mindset is all crocked, suspicious etc
RE:RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by TIGER MAN on Jul 13, 2008 12:05 AM Permalink
All Right ...YOU ARE 100% RIGHT...INDIA SHOULD ONLY DEAL WITH RUSSIA IN NUCLEAR TECNOLOGY...USA CAN NEVER BE TERUSTED .USA HAS ALWAYS PROVIDED WITH TERRORIST PAKISTAN WITH LARGE SUMS OF ARMS AND MONEY SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE THEIR TERRORIST ACTIVITIES IN INDIA . IN THE 1971 INDO PAK WAR....USA SENT 2 NUCLEAR WARSHIPS TOWARDS INDIA THREATINING INDIA THAT THEY WILL BOMB INDIA WITH NUCLEAR BOMBS UNTIL INDIA WITHDRAWS FROM PAKISTAN...USSR SEEING THESE USA THREATS SENT 4 NUCLEAR WARSHIPS TOWARDS THE USA ONES ...SEEING THIS THE USA QUICKLY TURNED BACK.. REALLY SPEAKING THE USA CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED...
RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by Hate Who divides on Jul 13, 2008 12:13 AM Permalink
But in agreement whatsoever in public ......... has not mentioned we can test with domestic material and facilities .................. no sanction and Millitary action for such incident .......... thats why people say agreement language is vague to make room for modification and misinterpretation which will harm India
RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by alok Misra on Jul 13, 2008 12:15 AM Permalink
The deal should not only provide us rightto explode bombs just after signing in celebration but should also ask Pakistan to surrender all its Nuclear bombs to International community just like North Korea in retaliation of its activities for spreading Bomb technologies to several nations and all its Nuclear reactors should be dismantled just as is the case with North Korea.India should be rewarded for its exmplary behaviour by asking to oversee this activity in Pakistan.We shouls ask for end to parity in American Foreign Policy between India and Pakistan on Nuclear issues
RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by TIGER MAN on Jul 12, 2008 11:59 PM Permalink
Joy Abraham ...YOU ARE 100% RIGHT THE WHOLE ONE SIDED DEAL IS VERY DANGEROUS FOR INDIA...
RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 12:24 AM Permalink
When we are signing an agreement, we should know if we can ashere to its clauses. So why should we contemplate that we will break them. We are not Iraq, who signs an agreement and then breaks it on purpose.
RE:RE:Article 108 dangerous for India
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 12:42 AM Permalink
I like to add to Ak's comment, why India was conferred this agreement and Pakistan refused was that though we sign the NPT, our NPT record was impeccable while Pakistan's the worst proliferator
Repeat the old notes. Hyde act is the enabling act for the 123 agreement. Salient points are here.
1.US will not cooperate with India to reprocess spent fuel which is necessary for Thorium based technology development. 2. Curtailed previous assurance of alternative fuel supplies. 3. India will not be permitted to join as a technology developer but as a recipient state. 4. India asked to participate in the international effort on nuclear non-proliferation, in accordance with US policies. 5.India to participate with the U.S. in a programme involving the U.S. National Nuclear Security Administration to further nuclear non-proliferation goals. 6. U.S. President is required to annually report to the congress whether India is fully and actively participating in U.S. and international efforts to dissuade, isolate and if necessary sanction and contain IRAN for its pursuit of indigenous efforts to develop nuclear capabilities. Intrusion in to our foreign policy and decision making. 7.India is brought into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) which aims to deny India space related dual use technology and items. 8.The Act makes it explicit that if India conducts nuclear tests, the nuclear cooperation will be terminated and we will be required to return all equipment and materials India might have received under this deal. This curtail our freedom of strategic planning. 9.The Act requires the U.S. to "encourage India to identify and declare a date by which India would be wi
RE:Who should believe
by alok Misra on Jul 13, 2008 12:22 AM Permalink
Being The largest democracy I believe It should be other way round! Our Prime Minister should report to Parliament every Month on Aspects of American Foreign Policy not conducive to our interests vis a vis all issues including Nuclear.We should pass not Hide Act but an act called Open act which should allow us to combat any threat of Military action by Us on this issue by confiscating all their properties in India and investments . In oher words a total tit for tat policy exactly opposite to what Hide act says.
RE:Who should believe
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 12:30 AM Permalink
Be realistic. India is not the Super Power as is US. So no tit for tat. Let us stand first and be counted and then we can think about tit for tat.
RE:Who should believe
by Gopal on Jul 12, 2008 11:44 PM Permalink
9.The Act requires the U.S. to "encourage India to identify and declare a date by which India would be willing to stop production of fissile material for nuclear weapons unilaterally or pursuant to a multilateral moratorium or treaty 10.The Act is totally silent on the U.S. working with India to move towards universal nuclear disarmament, but it eloquently covers all aspects of non-proliferation controls of U.S. priority, into which they want to draw India into committing 11.According to this act all bilateral agreements with US will have to be in consistent with this act. 12.The Act is totally silent on the U.S. working with India to move towards universal nuclear disarmament, but it eloquently covers all aspects of non-proliferation controls of U.S. priority, into which they want to draw India into committing
If NDA comes to power and try to renegotiate the agreement the Congress will be drowned in the gush of peoples' emotions. It will take at least a century for it come-out in the lime-light. Sorry Mrs. Sonia. I feel pity.
RE:Who should believe
by cynic on Jul 12, 2008 11:48 PM Permalink
neither Obama or Mccain are going to renegotiate the deal. Either accept it or getlost they are gonna say lol
RE:RE:Who should believe
by Prakash Asrani on Jul 12, 2008 11:52 PM Permalink
Hyde act will make BJP hide in shame since they will accept anything if and when they get elected. If Jaswant Singh can lick Mulayam Singh's boots twice to beg for a chance to make 82 year old budhavoo PM, just imagine to what extent they will go to curry USA' mercy.
RE:Who should believe
by All Right on Jul 12, 2008 11:50 PM Permalink
Brajesh Mishra, adviser to Vajpayee and NSA during NDA tenure rubbished re-negotiation. He said India may either have no deal or may get a worse deal since it takes two parties to agree to negotiate.
The next President Obama who recently made a turnaround to support the act may again turnaround to his hawkish stand
Renegotiatioon is just a confirmation hat Advani is senile.
RE:RE:Who should believe
by Prakash Asrani on Jul 12, 2008 11:55 PM Permalink
Since Brijesh Mishra was closer to Atal Behari Vajpayee, do not be surprised if LK advani gets up one day and asks who is Brijesh Mishra? 82 year old budhavoo's only dream is to grab PM's chair. Kissa Kursi Ka?
RE:Who should believe
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 11:53 PM Permalink
Hyde Act is part of the agreement. It binds US government and once US Congress ratifies the agreement, it will have pass an India specific amendment. Please dispell your fears.
RE:Who should believe
by Prakash Asrani on Jul 12, 2008 11:48 PM Permalink
And if USA refuses to re-negotiate, BJP will have to lick its own vomit or drown in its vomit.
ARTICLE 103 of safeguards agreement is dangerous for India. Even for minor non-compliance from part of India with the safeguards agreement, IAEA can report to Security Council to take military action against India. Please read the article given below.
"103. If the Board determines in accordance with Article XII.C of the Statute of the Agency that there has been any non-compliance by India with this Agreement, the Board shall call upon India to remedy such non-compliance forthwith, and shall make such reports as it deems appropriate. In the event of failure by India to take full remedial action within a reasonable time, the Board may take any other measures provided for in Article XII.C of the Statute."
“To make such reports as it deems fit” - is the UN language for saying "report for military action to security council".
This article 103 must be corrected to the effect that in case of non-compliance, IAEA can decide to stop or reduce further supply of nuclear material for a definite or indefinite term and the decision to be reviewed annually by IAEA.
Why? We know last year IAEA nearly recommended military action against Iran, It is a political body and if in future Indo US relation becomes bad, US can do this kind of things.
RE:Dangerous Article 103 - Lead to sanctions or Military Action against India
by All Right on Jul 12, 2008 11:52 PM Permalink
India should have some integrity not to divert assistance under the deal for making bombs.
The deal provides us the right to make bombs using our technology and fuel or provided by supplier countries like Russia who do mind such assistance to be so diverted.
The US on the other hand while seeking to support our civilian program do not want such leakages. We cannot force the US to change this policy. But we can take advantage of it without causing harm to our own security needs. This all what the deal is about.
So should we stoop to imitate Iraq, only then we would have a problem with IAEA. If we comply then we should have no problems
RE:Dangerous Article 103 - Lead to sanctions or Military Action against India
by Joy Abraham on Jul 13, 2008 12:15 AM Permalink
Dear All Right If the world was so strightforward, life would have been so easy. If Future Indian govt does anything to the dislike of western countries (like Zimbabwe's Mugabe nationalising white's farms) tjhey will use this trap to slap sanctions on India or military action against India. This is the danger. ANY non-compliance can be easily found in such complex deals-not necessarily using the fuel to make bombs
RE:Dangerous Article 103 - Lead to sanctions or Military Action against India
by AK on Jul 12, 2008 11:50 PM Permalink
Read my comments under FEAR below.
I feel the opinion expressed by experts has helped to get the required clarification on our n.deal with america.we intellectuals were worried over it.i feel that congress should not have kept every in the dark;they should have given some information this earlier so that the left and bjp would not got the chance mis-represent the whole issue. urs sincerely dr.ashok.v.bhuleshkar
RE:clarificationI
by All Right on Jul 12, 2008 11:57 PM Permalink
So even after the deal is the open, there is misrepresentation by commies and knickerwallahs. They are intend on gaining political mileage out of it.
As usual, I don't trust MMS/Sonia. The slave party can not do anything good for this country, I solemnly believe. These are all narrow minded people;they can do anything for some financial favor. Do we remember how the lover of Lady Mountbatten stole the coffer of Azad Hind Fouz? If they can attach themselves with anti-nationalist, agent of SIMI, Maulana Mully, they are vice for this nation. The slave party has got a new master in international arena. Congrats, the Slaves!
RE:Never trust MMS/Sonia
by Prakash Asrani on Jul 12, 2008 11:39 PM Permalink
Jo Ho, Though your name indicates so, you cannot be a paid agent of China since they are supporting N-Deal. However, Pakistan could be the force behind your frustrations. Incidentally can not make out from your name if you are a man or a woman or somewhere in between. Please confirm.
