Please google on IAEA to get the DRaft version and comments by other Countries on IAEA deal.
India requires Nuclear deal there is other thoughts, but the draft of the deal is realy written very losely like not mentioning which reactor will be under the investigation and if there is interuption of fuel by 35 approved countires which will supply nuclear. If you need to buy fuel you need allways need to get it from approval countries only on there terms and conditions and if india start using it for securtiy purpose what will happen is also not discussed.
If this type of the draft goes , then we end issues like the kashimr speach in UN by Nehru and his counter parts, which created problem which we are facing it today also.
Deal is good , but the drafts needs to send a strong signals or there must be counter law in india to over rule this.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 11:01 AM Permalink
- India decides which reactors would be under IAEA observations.
India can not use the nuclear materials obtained from approved sources for "civilian uses" for "military purpose".
Why do you want India to divert resources obtained for "civilian use" to "military use"?
In Mumbai stock exchange if any company raises capital for a particular purpose, then SEBI rules prevent the company to "divert" the money for other uses.
As per Indian Law, if you import an Aircraft for commercial purpose, then you can not use it for private purpose. [ Recent Ambani Case.]
...
And here we are talking about Nuclear Materials !!!
Why can't we just use simple logics before raising points ?
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 11:13 AM Permalink
There is one major concern about the IAEA agreement.
Clause 10 states "Nothing in this Agreement shall affect other rights and obligations of India under international law."
India is not signatory to NPT and CTBT and thus has no rights in the International Arena. What India is doing is considered "illegal". Would India be subjected to stop this illegal activity since it has no rights.
RE:RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 11:57 AM Permalink
- When IAEA recognises the separation of reactors by India mean whole business is legitimate.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 11:31 AM Permalink
Since we have not signed the NPT or CTBT, then the clause in our advantage. We can make bombs and explode it
RE:RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 11:45 AM Permalink
Question is our obligations under the International Laws. We sign them or not, government makes laws. Can the same analogy apply there.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by nuthan adalagerenemirajaiah on Jul 13, 2008 11:13 AM Permalink
I appricate your responds, i am not objecting the deal, what i am saying put some storng words or purticular words, in draft there must not be any ombugity words, if you see the draft the list of reactor area is totaly blank. but theses are the real question or reality we need to face towmmrow , as we don't have different lines of reactor for comerical and sentific or securtity purpose.
I would have agreed your arrugment of shares, but same law doesn't apply for other countries. that's why we need to make very clear in the document they my be coming after this draft version.
Nucelar deal is required for our growing population and development needs ASAP.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 11:22 AM Permalink
- The vagueness is deliberate. To overcome the present political situations, past legislations and laws. That's what a good negotiation is all about. USA has deliberately left many flanks open providing India to escape. That's the master stroke of our negotiators. By opposing the deal for no good reasons, we have got unnecessary attentions to it; while it should have gone for a quiet agreement by all parties to India's favour.
Only people with vested interests or no knowledge about global political realignments or strategic tie-ups would "sabotage" this kind of agreement.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by nuthan adalagerenemirajaiah on Jul 13, 2008 11:30 AM Permalink
people must be concern with the aggrement profits and minimise the error which my create in the future by this not with stupid/dum politicians.
I feel the drafts must be made aviliable to people so that every one can dicuss in health way ,not go with blind politicans way.
Govt must release the draft in all papers instead of going with the advenrtisement mode.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by nuthan adalagerenemirajaiah on Jul 13, 2008 12:01 PM Permalink
If you are working for MNC office, if you want the get any aggrement document the company has done you can get has insider, but you can't use distrubute the clasified or discuss with outsiders.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by prabhat mohanty on Jul 13, 2008 11:56 AM Permalink
- Well for common cold you run to a doctor.
For a simple fault in your bicycle, you run to mechanics.
For a pack of samosas, you run to halwais.
For filing simple saral application, you run to a CA.
There are specialists for everything.
You and me are not specialists in Strategic alliances in Global Sphere.
I am sure your company's Managing Director does not give a copy of draft to you and others or put on the company's notice board, when he is busy negotiating a deal with a Joint Venture partner.
That's a simple commercial deal affecting only the company.
Here we are talking about strategic alliances encompassing the whole World and its Geo-politics.
That's why best brains of our country negotiated the deal.
And they got you the best deal.
Recognise the goodness in the deal.
When NDA was negotiating the deal which was far inferior and was willing to sign CTBT, did they offer you the draft?
Did they discuss in the Parliament while they were negotiating?
Did they debate on the street?
Did they ask you to validate their own draft?
Think.
Just don't fall victim to hollow word.
Use your own intellect. Use your own thinking power.
RE:RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 11:18 AM Permalink
List can be given later and it is India which has to furnish the list, NOT IAEA to tell which ones.
India can use acquired material for the plants on the list and present soucres for the rest.
RE:Draft version of IAEA - losely written
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 12:16 PM Permalink
Nuthan you correct in terms of need for a counter law. Even Advani initially suggested it and I am sure the UPA knows it as well. But there is hurry to pass it. We can bid our time until we get NSG waiver
Omar Adbullah Minister of State of External Affairs of the then NDA government went to record on last night's Big Fight (NDTV.
1. The NDA Govt was negotiating a similar treaty 2. The terms of which were perceptibly worse 3. Though the terms were perceptibly worse, the NDA was prepared to sign.
Further Talbot, US Ambassador at the time of the NDA tenure, in a book revealed that the NDA government had secret negotiations with the US to sign NPT, CTBT, viz. internationally agreeing to permanently give up our rights to test a nuclear bomb.
If Talbot's book is not be tobelieved, then the official recordings of Vajpayee (1999) and Jaswant Singh (2000) speeches to the Gen Assembly of the UN. They promised that India would unilaterally and permanently gave up its right to test.
So who is anti-Hindu, anti-India? Who is opposing an agreement that is termed anti-Muslim and appeasing Mullahs. It is clear that BJP-NDA was always anti-national and that is why they find common ground with a Chinese centered Left/
RE:Why the BJP and Left find Common Grounds
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 10:24 AM Permalink
Energy needs of India are increasing exponentially. India would require 500-600 thousand MW of power by 2030 up from 132,110 at present. Thus nuclear power is one of the way forward for India to bridge this gap.
After oil, natural gas prices are next identified by global speculators for cascading price spiral. Economies of states like Gujarat who are significantly dependent on natural gas are going to shortly take a huge hit.
Increased price of oil and gas internationally, issues of climate change associated with coal as well as the breakdown of consensus on big dams has forced the country to re-look the viability of nuclear power.
So the next time we experience load shedding, power cuts, when our industrial growth plunges for lack of power, when our agricultural growth plunges because farmers cannot power their gen-sets, accentuating global inflationary pressures etc we will know who to spit on?
Advani and Prakash Karat and their respective parties are going to end up hate symbols among common people of India
RE:Why the BJP and Left find Common Grounds
by r patil on Jul 13, 2008 10:44 AM Permalink
So there you go ALL RIght,you want BJP to be blamed for future power cuts,but cannot give garuntee of no power cuts with the deal,Then why are the deal supporters haling it as a mile stone where their will be no power cuts?
I have being following the supporters of the deal for quite some time,who are criticising commies and BJp for not supporting the deal.even calling communist as china agents. WHAT is the garuntee that Madam Sonia may not take their help in future anymore to form government?It is 100% sure it has to take commies suppport hence the thanking by Sonia to them .Are we fools not to understand it.
RE:Why the BJP and Left find Common Grounds
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 11:29 AM Permalink
I reiterate there is no guarantee in life. Just as there exists a possibility that the UPA and Left will come together post-poll, there exists the possibility of Mayawati and Jayalaithaa tying up with the BJP though they repeaetdly ditched the BJP.
While we cannot forecast the future, we can anticipate future by extrapolating current trends and plan accordingly. This is called vision. In the 80s and 90s, the equity market differentiated old economy and new economy(internet,IT). So old economy stocks and business lost their market valuation. The Ambanis, Tatas and Mittals began to use old valuation to buy companies cheap and expand capacities. Today they are laughing all the way to the bank while the fate of new economy stocks hang in the balance.
This is called vision. This MMS demonstrated he had in good measure in the 90's. Then you knickerwallahs and commies ganged up to call him a US stooge. A decade later, his steps turned visionary. So the trust in his judgment in the field of energy security.
On the other hand we cannot trust the judgment of Karat who sided with China in the Indo-China war or Advani who eulogized Jinnah as a patriot, nationalist and secularist. These are men with stunted vision. One fettered by blind ideology, and the other conditioned by his greed to occupy the PM's chair.
RE:Why the BJP and Left find Common Grounds
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 11:09 AM Permalink
As he said, there are no guarantees in life, but we do take insurance policies for accidents and evetualities.
We have to look at what our requirements may be in the future and how we will meet them. Some will be met from CURRENT sources, some from KNOWN sources and some from FUTURE sources. Future sources are still not there as yet. Present sources are not sufficient and that leaves KNOWN sources as insurance until FUTURE sources are developed.
RE:RE:Why the BJP and Left find Common Grounds
by r patil on Jul 13, 2008 11:19 AM Permalink
dear Ak most of the deal supputers cannot do with out praising MMS and critising BJP and the left,specially the left for bring china's agent.I completely agree with commies being china's agent,but congrees lovers and commie haters what is the ganutee that our madam sonia will not take their help in fututre government formation and stall the nations growth on thier behest.
RE:Why the BJP and Left find Common Grounds
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 11:23 AM Permalink
Left were good for the governance of India. They made UPA think on issues, debated them in coordination committee meetings. They became a good Checks & Balance System when there is none in the Parliamentary system.
What was wrong is that they started blackmailing and 59 people started dictating 226. They forgot it is not China, It is a democracy.
usa -india deal is more strategic minded.usa realises china may overtake them in all capacity in 50 years,and alley pakistan shows no sign of development or loyality.so their only option is roping in growing india in this region.They may believe growing india plus usa may cross and contain china. The beauty of the deal may be yet to unfurl..because the approach of hastening up the deal by the congress itself smells of loopholes and selfish interests.people who are supporting it are congress chamchas or congress depoted executives.is their a cap on future tests?, what will be the cost of generated power?, when will the power generate? cant we develop an alternate till then? cant we reach to another country for the same? could'nt we wait till we reached a concensus,a parliament debate,or a holistic approach by all concerned or learned men?... in national interest please have a discreet approach
RE:deal behind the deal
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 10:26 AM Permalink
Your first para is correct and to add to that just a checks & balance system, Risk Management.
Second para, there is no hurry. This was signed long time back. Do politicians in India ever debate issues on the parliamentary floor. They cannot even debate budget. This deal has Left (anti USA) BJP (if we did not do it, it can not be good) BSP, SP & other parties (what is in it for us) and Congress (we are the best) parties.
Finally some debate is taking place on media, forums etc.
If 123 agreement had been accepted (it has nothing bad for India, if anything it is contrary to the US Laws, i.e. Hyde Act) and permission given to go ahead with the IAEA, the inspectors and report writers, only then debate could take place.
#Even on this forum very few people are discussing issues, they are discussing their party loyalties.
There is no cap on testing, it does not affect nuclear weapons program.
Nuclear Energy should be considered as an alternative, despite knowing the fact it has some inherent problems, until other sources are harnessed (not commercially possible yet), e.g. wind, solar, water etc. Fossil fuel cannot remain as the only source. Hydro is limited.
RE:deal behind the deal
by wise guru on Jul 13, 2008 03:48 PM Permalink
how can you be so convinced . i believe even mms is himself not entirely convinced with the actual deal.see a diplomats profession is to play with words.can mmms write in a bond paper that the right to nuclear test in in tact-and a nuclear test will not throw a spanner into this agreement and the aftermaths immediately-ever thought of it?.if we lived in africa or europe no need to worry of future defence.but we have neighbours like bangladesh,pakistan,china,iran,north korea,myanmar,srilanka...tell me who is our friendliest neighbour nepal? even they are going pro china.
All these halla-ballu is in the name of nuclear energy that would flow after a decade or more investing huge capital at the moment. And after 30-40 years it require astronomically huge capital to decommission the nuclear plants constructed now. Google 'Group up for �17bn Sellafield job '. Do we need to put our children in great distress for the energy we use. 17 Billion sterling pound is Rs13,50,000 crores. The radiation hazard is another issue. It is time to think of the projects in depth.
Further the visionaries of the N-deal claiming to be Congress men went and signed an agreement which will make India to follow a LAW enacted by another country. Congress, founded in 1885 by AO HUME and others grows into a movement for freedom of India delivered freedom to India with sacrifices from martyrs from all over India. It up-held the democratic values from the very beginning. What happened now? Now they do not care about the values that sustained Congress/India all these years. A man was asked to sign the 'agreement' keeping it secret even the from AICC members. Leave alone the Parliament. What a pity!! Feel that the Congress will have to pay a heavy price for this undemocratic, dictatorial, unprincipled handling of the N-deal. Think twice before jumping into the fire.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by Sanjay on Jul 13, 2008 10:18 AM Permalink
Gopalji, The British made the congress party inorder to subdue nationalism. Please don't think Nehru who was tutored by Mount Batten and slept with his wife was interested in nationalism. He kept every loyal servent of the crown who did untold arosities, murder looting, and surpression of its own people, to india making us from the richest coutry, most educated, most honest, most prosprous, to a country of beggers, liars, cheats and scondrol. He failed to fire not one person whoi supressed India and made us a third rate country, but did not allow Indian National Army to join the Indian military after independence.
Th Coolie raj is only interest in loot as they fill foriegn bank accounts just as the British.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by west on Jul 13, 2008 10:10 AM Permalink
not each agreement can be discussed indepth by the entire country. if you are enjoying a good life and job now, it's because of the same mms decisions in 1991 as a finance minister. when you trusted him then, why not now? you can find fault with mms if he cannot prove trust vote. untill then ... silence is better.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by r patil on Jul 13, 2008 10:19 AM Permalink
The fruits which we are enjoying is because of PVN and Atalji not MMS,yes high inflation we are seeing now is the result of MMS wrong policies like NREG and farmer loan waiver.You can give blind support to mms probalaly may you belong to the minority group who has most benefitted from the communal budgeting of MMS and co,we are not blind not to see it.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 10:41 AM Permalink
PVN got the credit whereas it was started by Rajiv, Petroda & V P Singh (when he was in Congress).
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by west on Jul 13, 2008 10:26 AM Permalink
why are u making this communal? yes PVN was the prime minister who selected mms as the finance minister. even today, mms respects pvn for that. imagine if your parents objected to mms and pvn decisions in 1991 by joining the commies, where will you be today? now, you must think about your children not in terms of bank balance you pass on to them but in terms of the infrastructure of the country so that they can lead a better life.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by r patil on Jul 13, 2008 10:35 AM Permalink
West you are silly to beleive MMS respects the dead PVN,no he does not.Anyway if you can credit MMs of upswing in economy from 1990,then you are bllind not to see the down hill movement of the economy from 2004(that is UPA)during MMS time.Why give blind support for good doings and be forgetful of the bad once.Would you all supported BJP for such HIgh inflation,communal budgeting only for one nuclear act,I dont think so.
RE:RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by west on Jul 13, 2008 10:38 AM Permalink
i'm not associated with any political party in india and i'm delinking the nuclear deal from the communal angle also. as for the present inflation - only a fool thinks that a country can only go upward with no downward movement. did u ever see a stock chart of any company? its' the same with any country's development too.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by wise guru on Jul 13, 2008 10:18 AM Permalink
mr west if ten persons shouted a pen was an eraser i would still not take it.i maintain i still still watch a wait and watch approach to the deal. but since you are following me answer my questin 3 precisely?.dont go with emotions. still manmohan and chidambaram are at the help of affairs and what is happening to the economy and prices.it requires deep understanding? not raising required hikes, increasing subsidies, free tvs etc etc .i pity the next government. we are heading towards a precarious situation.only because of their election oriented policies.see how cleaverly or foolishly we are discussing over our tea when their may be a danger we may not have this cup of tea in a day or too....
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by west on Jul 13, 2008 10:35 AM Permalink
i agree all these election oriented promises, free tvs etc are because of our long association with communists who want everything free without working. one thing i can tell for sure is this nuclear deal is not being done keeping the elections in view. this is truly in national interest and nothing related to elections.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by r patil on Jul 13, 2008 10:58 AM Permalink
West MMS and co are already projecting it as an election issue where are you?But does not want BP and co to make high inflation,communal budgeting ,terrorism to be politised? what are oppositions for then?
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by west on Jul 13, 2008 11:08 AM Permalink
they are trying to explain the importance of deal to the masses should the govt fall short of numbers on july 22nd and if people wonder why the early elections.
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by wise guru on Jul 13, 2008 10:10 AM Permalink
congress still paints a picture of itself as a party that got us independence , this is proclaimed by many of its members time and again. 1.none of the existing members would have seen the preindependence era 2.stop eye washing your corruptions,misdeeds,follies with such statements. 3 it sounds as if the fathers-forefathers of members of all other parties were siding with the british congress transgressions in bihar,goa,karnataka.. speak for themselves.It feels as if british passed over the baton to congress when the left.they feel its their proprietory right to rule india -by hook or crook. it is sad people still most people go with emotions rather than sence when making choices in life
RE:Uphold Tradition of Congress
by ASHOK on Jul 13, 2008 10:20 AM Permalink
You have no idea about Sellafield. 17bn pound sterling is for many purposes, chief amongst them is RUNNING the plant. Decommissioning 4 cooling tower is a small side job. You always decommission old units and erect new ones if old ones are as old as 1960's vintage.
Just do not start blabering if you know nothing. Half baked knowledge is dangrous to all.
Leave such matters to Nuclear Experts like AEC Scientists.
India is persuing FBR project, where as it is almost dead in Japan & France. USA never took interest in it.
Even than India is persuing it, Our Nuclear scientist Know it why they are spending crores of Rs in it and want to scale up to 500 MW FBR units. Here we trust them and never questioned them.
But why are you questioning Anil Kakodkar and his team, which says we need the accord.
Do you think you are better expert than AEC Chairman.
Energy needs of India are increasing exponentially. India would require 500-600 thousand MW of power by 2030 up from 132,110 at present. Thus nuclear power is one of the way forward for India to bridge this gap.
After oil, natural gas prices are next identified by global speculators for cascading price spiral. Economies of states like Gujarat who are significantly dependent on natural gas are going to shortly take a huge hit.
Increased price of oil and gas internationally, issues of climate change associated with coal as well as the breakdown of consensus on big dams has forced the country to re-look the viability of nuclear power.
So the next time we experience load shedding, power cuts, when our industrial growth plunges for lack of power, when our agricultural growth plunges because farmers cannot power their gen-sets, accentuating global inflationary pressures etc we will know who to spit on?
Advani and Prakash Karat and their respective parties are going to end up hate symbols among common people of India
RE:Whom to Spit Upon, Next Time we experience Power cuts?
by Gopal on Jul 13, 2008 10:10 AM Permalink
Yes the Congress projected the power requirement as 500-600 thousand MW by 2030. It is an absurd projection. Also they visualize 26% nuclear power by that time. That is 1,25,000MW. Is it practically possible to build plants like multi-storied buildings. I feel sorry for their projections. Think of the decommissioning cost for such plants as I explained earlier. Unimaginable!!
RE:Whom to Spit Upon, Next Time we experience Power cuts?
by r patil on Jul 13, 2008 10:13 AM Permalink
All theses days i have being reading your comments in support of the deal and critical of bp and left. 1)Can you tell us will congrees give us 100% garuntee of no power cuts after the deal comes through,then we dont want to hear more excuses from congrees or you for power failures. 2)Since the congrees high command is no mood to criticise the left for their betral,as they always accuse of BJP of something or the other. Can they and you give us full assureses that congrees will not take support or communist ever ever gain.
RE:Whom to Spit Upon, Next Time we experience Power cuts?
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 10:22 AM Permalink
No guarantees as in life. Nothing ventured nothing gained.
But if you do not take corrective action, even God will not help you
RE:Whom to Spit Upon, Next Time we experience Power cuts?
by r patil on Jul 13, 2008 10:42 AM Permalink
So there you go ALL RIght,you want BJP to be blamed for future power cuts,but cannot give garuntee of no power cuts with the deal,Then why are the deal supporters haling it as a mile stone where their will be no power cuts?
I have being following the supporters of the deal for quite some time,who are criticising commies and BJp for not supporting the deal.even calling communist as china agents. WHAT is the garuntee that Madam Sonia may not take their help in future anymore to form government?It is 100% sure it has to take commies suppport hence the thanking by Sonia to them .Are we fools not to understand it.
RE:Whom to Spit Upon, Next Time we experience Power cuts?
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 11:04 AM Permalink
As he said, there are no guarantees in life, but we do take insurance policies for accidents and evetualities.
We have to look at what our requirements may be in the future and how we will meet them. Some will be met from CURRENT sources, some from KNOWN sources and some from FUTURE sources. Future sources are still not there as yet. Present sources are not sufficient and that leaves KNOWN sources as insurance until FUTURE are developed.
Comments are mapped one on one to your points below. 1) The whole usa is a colony of goras. They drove the locals away. Colonialism is in their blood and gene. 2. They are ruling not politically but economically exploiting many many nations. 3. Mexicans dont want trouble with a neighbour. And what does usa do to it in return. They us it to import slaves. Import manpower, Import brainpower, import food, and they deliberately created goons and drug lords by making few people rich and corropt. I am so happy we are not usa neighbour. 4. Colonism breeds because of business mindedness only. Not for a desire to be a famous leader of another country. 5. Bush is known for his generosity and selflessness, virtue, care for humanity, care for other countries, etc. What can i say. 6. May be you will like us to wag our tails a little and dance a bit. Your usa will like us more and may throw more crumbs. ANY DEAL WITH USA IS BAD. How many slaves may have died such that you were born. I pity you.
RE:RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by AK on Jul 13, 2008 09:22 AM Permalink
US is one country that has least amount of investments in India. They have been burned several times: COKE, IBM, Union Carbide and Dabhol to name a few.
US does throw crumbs to India and India does pick it up through UN agencies.
US, as any body else, looks after its interest first.
US wants to do business through agreements and it is the choice of the other party to want to do business also.
Bush wants to leave his name in history, similarly to Nixon with China.
Outside India, USA is the best country for Indians.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Vikram on Jul 13, 2008 09:59 AM Permalink
What curbs is US throwing at India? US and other nations like it form cartels to increase the prices of goods, while nations like India suffer. Remember that, your American richness is at the cost of many empty mouths across nations like India. Shameless rat.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by west on Jul 13, 2008 08:46 AM Permalink
1) if you don't know - the native americans enjoy more benefits today than the goras 2) americans do work hard and yes they rule economically because of the opportunities and risks they take. america would had been like india if americans didn't took any risks. 3) why just Mexico? millions of people around the world come to america for opportunities and for better life. it's not equivalent to importing slaves. you don't like to come then don't come. 4) if its' not business minded, then how do you feed 6 billion population of the world? every one has something to give and another thing to take. that's how the world works. you just want to sit tight in your house and want the food to come to you? then whoever is feeding you is business minded if not u. 5) yes, Bush is a great leader and it takes atleast 40 to 50 years for the world to realise the good things he's doing now. if you and i happen to live till that time, we'll have another discussion again. 6) i didn't know u have a tail. well, if u do .. i don't mind if u wag it or not. for sure, i don't wanna see u dance.
it's your call. how u want your future to be ... america is far better without india. if india has that self-confidence then why so many indians are flocking to come to america?
don't pity me ... i'm happy ... pity ur self and for your wisdom
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Guest on Jul 13, 2008 10:53 AM Permalink
No doubt USA uses every "opportunity" to exploit others in its enlitened self interest. Can any one tell me why American is sticking to Iraq now? It was a large producer of Oil after Saudi and Iran among the Opec countries. What is happening to its oil revenue? Has any one said about it, even the Western Press who criticises Bush? You know after the Gulf War, America made a profit after evicting Saddam from Kuwait! I have reason to believe that Iraq is providing yet another profitable operation in these hard times of soaring oil prices for America. Obama, if he becomes the President of USA, will reaalise this sooner than later and may thin twice before withdrawing his troops.
India needs energy but America now needs India more, to balance against China. IAEA and NSG will listen to what USA dictates. Tomorrow, if this group poses new problems at the behest of USA, the agreement with all its "safe guards", will not be worth the paper on which it is written. Our future should not be mortgaged. We have progressed in pite of them (see the sanctions after the Pokhran blast. It may take time but we will not be left behind. So, no hurry to sign the deal now R.K.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by west on Jul 13, 2008 11:02 AM Permalink
you are very silly to argue that america needs india to counter china. the fact is america doesn't need any one to counter china. if you go a little more indepth - america doesn't care even if china becomes super power or not. if america is truly concerned about china, it wouldn't have helped it in the first place.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Guest on Jul 13, 2008 11:14 AM Permalink
My friend, American needs no body. Do you know what happend in Vietnam? The Super Power became a pigmy. Yes. they helped China, for its own sake - give the luxury of the west to China and expose the public to their way of life, they can always get a few quislings like you to stab from back. Come on, where is Iraq Oil money going? have you got the answar?
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by west on Jul 13, 2008 11:26 AM Permalink
you just put your foot in your mouth. I'm "your friend". it's people like you who are keeping india lying down. why don't you tell me where the iraq oil money going if you know?
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Abhi Bhat on Jul 13, 2008 09:20 AM Permalink
You dont know what usa will do to people who go against interest of usa. They destroy air, destroy water, destroy economy, of other countries. usa grows by exploiting these assets of other countries. usa needs India and China to grow. India does not need usa. usa can "grow" only by exploitation. You shud see how they treat animals and exploit for their food and pleasure hunting. Good for you that you are so happy being slave. So my comments are not for you. They are for others who mistakenly read your post. Sure wait for 40-50 yrs and Bush's design may bring fruits. Sun will never set in usa. And who will be then responsible for that? People like yourself.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by west on Jul 13, 2008 09:34 AM Permalink
what will indian govt do to people who go against the interest of india? if it just leaves them without doing anything - then ask yourself if the govt is doing it's duty?
you call exploitation ... i call it making use of opportunities and resources. just because you sit idle and don't take opportunities doesn't give you a right to call the people who take the opportunities as doing exploitation. it's your incompetence to not take opportunities.
tell me a country where meat is not served or animals are not killed for food. China which is a buddhist state and our commies masters kills anything that crawls. that doesn't make it bad. Also, animals too have better rights in usa than in any other country. they do maintain animal courts in usa and if you excuse me - pets receive hair cuts and body washes regularly from their owners.
who's slave? come out of the slave mind set which is imposed by the mohammadean and british rule. see the world in a new spirited way and live a dignified and free life
RE:RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Sathish N on Jul 13, 2008 09:45 AM Permalink
If there are people in many countries eating meat, that does not mean that eating meat is correct. Eating meat by itself is not wrong. Carnivores are made such to live on meat. But, human having higher intellect should be able to just the right from wrong. Our body is not made to eat meat. It it were, we should be able to eat raw meat.
RE:RE:RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Sathish N on Jul 13, 2008 09:42 AM Permalink
It is not making use of opportunity that is bad, but at what cost is want needs to be looked. Do you think amassing everything on this planet is making use of opportunity. Making life better with damaging the ecological balance is using our brain properly. Else, we are leaving a messed up earth for our future generations.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by west on Jul 13, 2008 09:50 AM Permalink
a poor man in india who doesn't use any technological products says that you are spoiling the planet by using technology and it's effecting him and he curses you for your karma for leaving the planet bad for his future generations. what will you answer to him? leave everything you are using and take an ascetic life? yeah, why don't you do that?
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Sathish N on Jul 13, 2008 09:38 AM Permalink
Very well said and that too without getting personal.
Is Bush to be blamed for the most of the situations. Partly yes. Americans have to take the majority of the blame for voting him in. And, many Indians too for blindly supporting countries which are successful economically but bankrupt morally.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by west on Jul 13, 2008 09:45 AM Permalink
satish and abhi - you too have to catch up for your karma partly for using the products invented by usa like electricity, computer etc and thereby helping the usa. your karma is written all over your head.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Sathish N on Jul 13, 2008 09:49 AM Permalink
I agree. Karma will catch up with everyone. You are right - everyones karma is written all over each ones head.
RE:Replying to this person named - west - below
by Gopal on Jul 13, 2008 10:14 AM Permalink
Some Contentious issues in Hyde act furnished 1. No freedom to handle spent fuel. 2. No guarantee for alternate fuel supply 3. India is not a technology developer but a recepient. 4. India to side with US in NPT 5. India to participate with US National Security Administration for NPT. 6. Reporting of US President on the efforts of India in containing IRAN. 7. India denied space related dual use technology 8. India denied strategic planning of nuclear programms. 9. Stopped India in the production of fissile materials. 10.No joint move for universal nuclear disarmament. 11.All future agreements are to be in consistent with this act. Hyde act is the enabling act for the 123 agreement. We are surrendering our sovereignty.
RE:Nuke deal
by ASHIM MUKHERJEE on Jul 13, 2008 08:01 AM Permalink
let there be a debate between CONGRESS who wants deal with U.S.and our PRO INDIA LEFT who want the same with CHINA their PATRON
RE:Nuke deal
by west on Jul 13, 2008 07:58 AM Permalink
you just made fool of yourself. this is a political deal and not technological. this is about india's future in geopolitical arena and that of the world not just about technology.
RE:RE:Nuke deal
by aman on Jul 13, 2008 08:36 AM Permalink
These western countries Marginalized our country in the name of a "Nuclear test".. when hundreds of Nuclear weopons are in their stockpile and even then we go begging with them.
RE:Nuke deal
by aman on Jul 13, 2008 08:30 AM Permalink
what kind of politics is involved? building Nuclear plants with US technology and getting Uranium for Nuclear plants is not politics.
RE:Nuke deal
by rationalist on Jul 13, 2008 08:45 AM Permalink
it seems people in general do not have proper grasp of the word 'politics' - politics actually implies managing the society by means of a viable political system using advanced civic rules for interaction between dif groups. Diplomacy between countries is a part of politics (geo politics). Advancing a countires cause and interest and planning for the same is also part of political process of the state.( Yes, but common man tend to understand politics as "petty politics of vested interests and horse trading etc..)
hey, that's what the gandi loyalists said when they were caught with pants down by the u.n. on gandis were profiting illegaly from saddam's oil. gandi party can not be believed, for they mistake their own shady interests for national interests.
1) usa and britain are different. britain had a colonial approach and imperial mind set when they came to india through east india company. on the other hand usa believes in diversity and has more a corporate governance approach.
2) usa is never interested in ruling the world. if usa really has imperial mind set, they would had taken over japan after wwii when nuclear bombs destructed two japanese cities. name single country where usa occupied and taken control over. that explains a lot.
3) infact, the mexico has been long requesting the usa to include mexico also into the usa for the better future of mexicans. usa is not interested. this explains usa not an imperialist state.
4) usa believes in diversity and they are more business minded. they make deals with win-win situation and more for mutual benefits.
5) George Bush favors India more than any present, past and future presidents of usa. He likes india - may be he as many good and true indian friends. india must cash in this opportunity. if india thinks it can get a more better deal, then it's gambling with countries future prospects.
6) America wants to set an example in the world that any country sticking to non-violence like india will be rewarded nice. americans hope this is a good opportunity to set a precedent so that other countries will shun violence and follow india's path so that the world will be a better place for future generations.
i ask all indians to use commensense before deciding.
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by Gopal on Jul 13, 2008 10:46 AM Permalink
Friend, Please see the contentious issues in the Hyde act 1. No freedom to handle spent fuel. 2. No guarantee for alternate fuel supply 3. India is not a technology developer but a recepient. 4. India to side with US in NPT 5. India to participate with US National Security Administration for NPT. 6. Reporting of US President on the efforts of India in containing IRAN. 7. India denied space related dual use technology 8. India denied strategic planning of nuclear programms. 9. Stopped India in the production of fissile materials. 10.No joint move for universal nuclear disarmament. 11.All future agreeents are to be in consistent with this act. Hyde act is the enabling act for the 123 agreement.
Leaders declare that all these are wrong but failed to arrange a debate in Parliament. LEFT and BJP failed in the parliament to expose the omissions
Is it not surrendering our freedom and sovereignty?
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 07:37 AM Permalink
Don't presume that you constitute the entire nation
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by Sri Das on Jul 13, 2008 08:40 AM Permalink
excuse can you explain why tiger man cannot say...it is an universal truth that if we use nuclear energy in a positive/proper way, it is a very good energy resource...don't just read the newspappers and decide dost...please also look into the fact of the surging electrical charges...there are lot of other things here...and for your kind information...it is BJP led NDA who initiated for technology transfer and not the congress led UPA government...and everything takes its own course and time to get execute and when the upa is in power, they got the deal...where the same deal won't be supported by the BJP and the so called common people's "LEFTISTS," why....thats politics...one nuclear reactor if it runs in full capacity...it will give power to four states...think about the rest...and we thriving for electricity/power...why do we all as a nation support this deal and go with this...why UPA government is not willing to say that the BJP has initiated the deal is very simple but for the vote bank...hope you guys understand.
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by TIGER MAN on Jul 13, 2008 07:41 AM Permalink
i counted u commies out already........
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by All Right on Jul 13, 2008 08:22 AM Permalink
See? I am not a commie... but people like you on your high horses will not think twice before generalizing would they?.. :-)
Is your ego big enough to encompass the whole nation into your single thought?
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by TIGER MAN on Jul 13, 2008 09:47 AM Permalink
which nation? india or ur beloved china?
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by wise guru on Jul 13, 2008 08:49 AM Permalink
hey west, your name tells it all.
some of your words but with illogical reasoning.
1.usa is not collonial perhaps they themselves suffered the brunt-once.The days of collonialism are over with ww2. 2.yes usa is business minded and more strategic minded.usa realises china may overtake them in all capacity in 50 years.and alley pakistan shows no sign of development or loyality.so their only option is growing india in this region.they may believe growing india usa may cross and contain china. 3.the beauty of the deal may be yet to unfurl..because the approach of hastening up the deal by the congress itself smells of loopholes and selfish interests.people who are supporting it are congress chamchas or congress depoted executives.is their a cap on future tests?, what will be the cost of generated power?, when will the power generate? cant we develop an alternate till then? cant we reach to another country for the same? couldt we wait till we reached a concensus,a parliament debate,or a holistic approach by all concerned or learned men?... in national interest have a discreet approach
RE:I ask all Indians to think a while before rejecting this deal.
by west on Jul 13, 2008 08:58 AM Permalink
i not able to understand how your statements corrected my illogical reasoning, if any in my statements. for your question 3 - you are a wise guru - go figure out yourself.
US has almost succeded in stopping and curbing North Korean Nuke ambition.
USA is actively working on IRAN and I will not be surprised if in next 2 years US/IRAN work out a agreeable format and move ahead in a peacefull manner.
If it is Electricity which Iran wants through Nuclear route than they have to stop HATE USA Campaign. They will do that sooner than later.
Next similar 123 deal will be signed with Pakistan in perhaps 4 to 5 years now.
