I am a regular reader of various articals on rediff and many other web sites, i really fail to under stand why people have become so untollerent about each others relegion, here is a nuclera deal which is being executed by congress, we all shoud debate the deal rather than hindus and muslims, people who have reservation on the deal may put up their hezitaion and perpole who favor it give posite points, rather than discussing and abusing each others relegions.
RE:Muslims of India
by Virgo on Jul 13, 2008 12:32 PM Permalink
I agree. The problem is that some pakis and Wahabi/Deobandis who prowl this forum under Hindu names try to divert every topic in order to instigate communal flames.
We can and should debate with sincerety and intellectual honesty without personal attacks and insults.
As for intolerance, that is the exact plan by the paki wahabi ISI and their agents in India. They go around and use terrorism to kill innocent people in order to divide muslims and hindus.
RE:Muslims of India
by maverick on Jul 13, 2008 05:18 PM Permalink
virgo Bhai...do u think our police and law enforcement is good... consider a not so religious case recently come into the limelight, "Aarushi-Hemraj Double Murder"..remember how these DIGs/COP make a mockhrey of the whole case without getting into the fact and just to get glorified put in fake statements in the press defmaing around people... this was the case where a qualified doctor was involved n so was the media, that why he got so much attention... think about other poor/imporverished people, who r u being subjected to being terrorist etcc... I total agree with all buddies here people/organistaions linked to terror like SIMI/Hurriyat/Jaish/VHP/Bajrang/Shiv Sena shoould all be destroyed when they have been linked to attacks on the Indian democracy... but one shoould not blame commnuities religions, their books etcc... Kyunki Mazhab Nahin Sikhata Aapas Main Bair Rakhna... Hindi hain Hum Watan hain Hindustan Hamara... Saare Jahan Se Acchaa
RE:Muslims of India
by Virgo on Jul 14, 2008 02:37 AM Permalink
Maverick,
YOur sentiments are appreciated. I am against castigating all the members of a community as terrorists and extremists. However, you have to be honest and admit that Islamic terrorists with Paki ISI support are the ones who have been killing innocent civilians in the numerous attacks in India. There have been about 30 to 40 individual attacks on trains, temples etc. Thousands of people have died. There are a large number of terror cells supported by the ISI and Wahabi/Deobandi terrorists. You can't deny that. The Bangalore doctor Shakeel Ahmed, the Glasgow bomber, was one of them.
These Wahabi/Deobandis have also been active in Pakistan killing thousands of Shia Muslims there.
RE:Muslims of India
by Virgo on Jul 14, 2008 02:44 AM Permalink
Maverick,
Also, you can see that you are one of the very few Muslims here who openly condemn the SIMI and the paki terrorist outfits LET, Jaish... Most Muslims don't come out in the open and condemn these terrorist outfits and tacitly support their acts. That is what upsets the non-muslim Indians.
Many people are saying the deal is "Anti-Muslim". Can anyone explain what is the connection between a Nuke-Energy Deal by India and the muslims. Why it is Anti to this community ??? My logic could not come to a conclusion.
RE:Muslims and the civilian Nuke-Deal
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 12:20 PM Permalink
have you put this questiion at whom who said this? go and ask them. what will you get in this message board?
RE:Muslims and the civilian Nuke-Deal
by redindian on Jul 13, 2008 12:25 PM Permalink
Mayawati, Left leaders etc.. used anti-muslim theory. All those who said could not be contacted thru this board.. they are just invisible characters.
RE:Muslims and the civilian Nuke-Deal
by Virgo on Jul 13, 2008 12:35 PM Permalink
redindian,
Very valid question and goes to the root of the article we are debating here. I would love to hear from our Muslim friend why this nuke deal is anti-muslim? My bet is that we will not get any response.
I have noted a very strange thing, i may be wrong, but this is my understanding, that pakistan was created with the sole intention that hindus could have one country to themselves, and muslims to themselves and can live peacefully as neighbours if not brothers, by that same logic, if you see any pakistani on a TV channel or any programme, it can be an actor, or comedians from pakistan they always refer to our country as "HINDUSTAN" never as INDIA or BHARAT, but the same cannot be said of our so called secular politicians, who never dare call our country as HINDUSTAN, even Nehru in his book referred to our country as "HINDUSTAN", though i cannot say the same about his italian descendents.
RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by Ghanta on Jul 13, 2008 12:03 PM Permalink
Historically, i.e before the advent of i$lam $#it , this land was know as Bharat only, hindu / india are words coined by foreigners to this great land.. hence wherever you go, please refer to this country as Bharat and not India/Hindustan etc
RE:RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by nalini singh on Jul 13, 2008 12:16 PM Permalink
Sorry you are wrong, the word HIndustan comes from SINDHU and Stan (place), which translated means the land on the other side of the sindhu, it never meant land meant for the HINdus, though in persian Sindhu means HIndu. So historically this land was knows as HIndustan, if your claim that before the advent of islam was bharat, then Akbar the great also called this land as hindustan. they were not coined by foreigners
RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by GRJ on Jul 15, 2008 11:06 AM Permalink
For the external world it was Sindh-stan ....for ETHNIC INDIANS ( LOCALS ) it was Bharat ruled by king Bharata....so as Maurya, Chola etc., etc.,
Dont worry about it but dread the Invaders and Invasions and dont mix with them they will take but not give....same in the case of N DEALS....Can any other country like Iran or china or Russiaa give us a better deal ??? with Their hair in your hand ???
Use market or street wisdom.
No giver of assurance will give his hair into your hands....Like rescuing a drowning man is better done holding hair bu not hugging as in Indian movies.....Both will drown. !!! Think !
RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 11:44 AM Permalink
Have you asked this question to great politicians like advani, vajpaye, etc.? do they have answers? they are fighting for the (cheating in the name of) hindu cause. So you ask this this question to them and publish theri answer. your doubt will be cleared.
RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by pjothilingam on Jul 13, 2008 12:31 PM Permalink
madam nalini singh, It is true that the subcontinent was partitioned to create Pakistan comprising of muslim majotity areas.Our aging politicians meekly accepted this political decision to be able govern what is now Bharat.The only problem with Pakistan is the Kashmir issue, which again lingers because of our mishandling the matter.But look at China:every now and then they are adding new indian territories as disputed areas and later claiming them as their own.At this rate,they may even start claiming the whole of Assam and the entire northeast as their territory very soon.It is therefore statesmanship to accomodate Pakistan by implementing any legally binding international obligations.We can forge a friendship treaty with Pakistan.That will leave us free to face the real challenge posed by China.In this context the nuke deal is ill advised,as energy security or any other security, cannot take precedence over national security.Can anyone even imagine any country, including the US,to involve itself directly in armed confrontation on the side of india,if we are in a war or warlike situation with China?The US and the European Union have lot more economic stakes in China than in India, and this will dictate policy.So,we should become mighty ourselves,not just economically but militarily as well.Remember that China grew military muscles simultaneously while growing economic muscles.
RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by patriotsunite on Jul 13, 2008 12:00 PM Permalink
nalini, India is an anglicized version of Hindustan. The name India, Hindu, Hindustan comes from the river 'Indus'. Essentially, the people living beyond the river Indus were called Hindus. Now, religion wise, Hinduism is essentially an all encompassing religion. During the last two centuries, there has been attempts to correctly interpret Hinduism to its founding Vedic principles (essentially one God, many forms, God exists in all, whether good or bad). Most of these fundamentals have so much in common with Christianity and Islam. There has been people taking advantage of a more narrow outlook on Hinduism. That is not surprising(that is the nature of man). Same can be said about any other religion. Final point, Hindustan though literally means 'land of Hindus' does not mean land of people who follow Hinduism. It means, land of people who live beyond Indus. I am a Christian. I have every right to the soil as any Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Jain or whatever. And I have every duty to defend it too.
RE:RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by patriotsunite on Jul 13, 2008 12:04 PM Permalink
One more point, Pakistan was created for Muslims to have a sole country for themselves. On the other hand, India was founded as a secular republic. Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and all other nationalities are welcome here.
RE:hindustan - or Bharat
by nalini singh on Jul 13, 2008 12:12 PM Permalink
Well I am please with your answer, i am with you when you say it was a secular republic, and i am also with you when you say that all the communities are welcome here to stay and prosper in peace, that is what i say why not have equality for all than have minority and majority reservations, if you read the posts of Ajit Mohammed, he writes all muslims are united for the sake or reservation to minorities, if this is a secular republic and all the parties claim themselves as secular why this minority and majority drama,
The interest of the country comes first and Muslims would do what's in the favour of the country, there is absolutely no conflict between the interests of the nation and that of the Indian Muslims. All hindu fanatics and RSS spokesman on this board back off!
RE:Indian Muslims
by nalini singh on Jul 13, 2008 11:36 AM Permalink
Oh, by that same logic, you mean the deal is good for the country, is good for the indian muslims, and so the muslims support, and by that same logic BJP opposes it, then i wonder why the so called SECULAR LEFT Front opposes it, so does it mean they oppose what is good for the indian muslims,
RE:Indian Muslims
by INDIAN RAM on Jul 13, 2008 12:08 PM Permalink
Like BJP taking our Mukhatar Abbas Naqvi from 1 years hibernation to oppose to appease MUSLIMS. GREAT BHARAT JALAO PARTY (BJP)
RE:Indian Muslims
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 11:48 AM Permalink
nalini singh, do you agree that muslims dominate indian politics? How many years now this is going on? 50 years? this will never diminish.
Now answer for your question is the muslim league MP has kept aside the religious feeling for he believes this is good for nation.
RE:RE:Indian Muslims
by nalini singh on Jul 13, 2008 11:53 AM Permalink
Well you answer that one yourself, "Muslims dominate indian politics " GEt a list of all teh elected representatives and find out if they dominate or not, also how many differen muslim parties are there ?? do you know ???
RE:Indian Muslims
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 12:35 PM Permalink
nalini singh, you are aware that whenever a new message comes in this board, People start muslim and anti muslim discussions. one party blame the other as muslim appeasement and the other communal. you may be understanding what is meant here communal. read all the messages. all will end with the discussion of muslim anti muslim arguement. a party which blames the other as muslim appeasement does not dare to say openly they are against muslims (although they feel this in mind). now you can uderstand from shaker how he wants to see me. Shaker, are you living? you mentioned that you will make us all stand stark naked. until now have your ever done to any?
RE:Indian Muslims
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 12:53 PM Permalink
Mr. Sheker, you have unnecessarily used very bad words towards me. that too towards a third person nalini. if nalini has rejected your words what is your position. your writings reflect the state of your mind. if you feel won by using this word. please carryon still more. you started to talk to nalini and ended with "I will make you all stand stark naked". dont you feel your words are silly? i dont know who is stark naked now. one more advice, the words you use to say write will never die. the will be brought in front of you.
RE:Indian Muslims
by Lakshman Valiveti on Jul 13, 2008 11:10 AM Permalink
To equate RSS with hindu fanatics reflects your lack of awareness and prejudice. RSS is a plain social service organisation based on hindu ideologies. Remove the fear of RSS in your mind, dear Indian Muslim, if they were really fanatics, Muslims & christians plight would have been worse in the country.
RE:Indian Muslims
by Ali on Jul 13, 2008 11:17 AM Permalink
Regardless of how you want to glorify RSS, the fact remains that they are killers of the father of nation - Mahatma Gandhi, and please do pick history books (not from RSS library) and find out the role of RSS during independence struggle.
RE:RE:Indian Muslims
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 11:52 AM Permalink
you understand only now? Is Ali only anti rss. there are many ramas, krisnas, ganeshas are anti rss. Fist know the true history
RE:Indian Muslims
by Ramesh Lakshman on Jul 13, 2008 11:29 AM Permalink
Do notthink Gandhi is a genuine guy... he bcame famous by congress donkeys planned hype... History clearly shows that how he treated shubash chandra bose when he started becoming ffamous.... go to PAKISTAN you fooooolllll
RE:Indian Muslims
by INDIAN RAM on Jul 13, 2008 11:44 AM Permalink
Congratulations boy !It was heartening to read your message kind of langauge(filth) you have used can only come from the teaching of illeterate RSS people who's only defence is to abuse and use derogatory language against the different view person. You can really claim for MP SEAT as they need people with this language. Yehi unki SANSKRITI HAI, YEHI UNKI ASMITA HAI,YEHI UNKI VICHAARDHAARA HAI. GREAT BHARAT JALAO PARTY (BJP)
RE:Indian Muslims
by Ajit Mohammed on Jul 13, 2008 11:30 AM Permalink
The one thing that all the incredible RSS cretins who frequent this column fail to understand is that Hindoos are not a community or a united religion but Hindooism is just a way of life. The Hindoos are a population hopelessly divided into myriads of castes creeds and communities. The interests and aspirations of all these blocks are all against each other. So there is absolutely no question of their coming together as a single vote bank. They have never been able to forge a unity at any point of time in the history of this country. This is the greatest advantage of the Muslims of India. History is witness to the fact that whenever Muslims stood united behind a single banner – whether it be to establish the Sultanate or the Mughal empire or to carve out Pakistan or to uproot the Emergency or to get the Muslim personal law altered their way or to kick out Vajpai from power – they did what they wanted and there was nobody to stop them. So let them be 15% or 5%, ignorant or illiterate, wealthy or poor, Islam has been a formidable force in ancient and modern India and will continue to control the destiny of Hindustan forever – like it or not. Don’t you see that, in accordance with the desire of the Muslims, reservation for backward communities is a reality in India despite all the hue and cry from the upper caste Hindoos?
RE:RE:Indian Muslims
by nalini singh on Jul 13, 2008 11:49 AM Permalink
Glad to know that you undersood that Hinduism is a way of life and not a community, but even after that u seem to be confused a little here, ( most of your spellings are wrong, cant expect anything better from you, can I ), you at one place say that it is not a community, and then you say they cant come together for one agenda, if they are not a community and a way of life, how can they come together i fail to understand. then u say hindus area population of castes creeds, if it is a way of life, how come they have castes and creeds, are they a community again, i am confused. SEcondly you say muslims stood united behind a single banner, well you may have failed in HIstory, go back and read there are so many muslims, warring among each other, again u talk of pakistan, if all muslims were united in carving out pakistan, then how do we see so many in India (infiltration because of the powers there did not let them live there in peace), regarding emergency,i quote something from wikipedia --- The Government used police forces across the country to arrest thousands of protestors and strike leaders. J.P. Narayan, Morarji Desai, Charan Singh, Jivatram Kripalani, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Lal Krishna Advani and other protest leaders were immediately arrested. Organizations like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and opposition political parties were banned.
---- ARe the names above uprooting emergency MUSLIMS. Well the last but not the least Do you know who imposed the state of e
RE:RE:Indian Muslims
by nalini singh on Jul 13, 2008 11:51 AM Permalink
regarding emergency,i quote something from wikipedia --- The Government used police forces across the country to arrest thousands of protestors and strike leaders. J.P. Narayan, Morarji Desai, Charan Singh, Jivatram Kripalani, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Lal Krishna Advani and other protest leaders were immediately arrested. Organizations like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and opposition political parties were banned.
---- ARe the names above uprooting emergency MUSLIMS. Well the last but not the least Do you know who imposed the state of emergency on INdira Gandhis advice it was the president of that time,
RE:Indian Muslims
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 11:27 AM Permalink
if you are right can you please tell me why the always work background. why they dont come in front line. they just instigate poor people and make them to act on behalf of them. wherever problem occurs the victims are the poor dalit people only, althogh the problems were engineered by rss.
RE:RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 11:13 AM Permalink
Mr. singh you are wrong. as per the true story ravana killed rama. but there were politicians who changed the story. a similar happening also took place in another story. just misguide people one man will shout i killed asuvathama. but actually he killed an elephant named asuvathama. like this the story has been manipulated. this is what happened 45672 years before.
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by mumbai on Jul 13, 2008 01:21 PM Permalink
do you have your own history. dont beg westerners to give your history. any of you can get authenticated history of your own please come and give th source.
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by nalini singh on Jul 13, 2008 12:00 PM Permalink
Well as Birbal says " Do not argue with an Idiot, who either completely is devoid of knowledge or has half the knowledge " ? I rest my case ???
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jul 13, 2008 10:16 AM Permalink
1 seat, Muslims are fanatics, bad, unsecular, anti Indians...how dare they have 1 elected ML member.
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by Virgo on Jul 13, 2008 10:52 AM Permalink
Muslims can have a lot more seats and the highest offices of PM, President, CM and so on. But, they can't do it based on a narrow religious Muslim League agenda. They have to join the Indian mainstream political parties and be full partners in nation building. Pan-islamic agendas, playing victimhood and religious card won't get the Muslims anywhere.
This is what the blacks in the US had to do to move ahead- they had to stop the victimhood card and racial cards. Now a black is going to be the president.
No Indian would bat an eye if the PM, CM or the President is a Muslim. You can't say the same with pakiland and other Islamic countries with respect to minorities.
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by Ali on Jul 13, 2008 11:12 AM Permalink
Had Muslims been so bad as yu described that they would have converted India into an Islamic country 100s of years ago. The fact that Hinduism exists today is only because of the co-existence that was practised by the Mughals.
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by Ramesh Lakshman on Jul 13, 2008 11:33 AM Permalink
tajmahal was a temple... so is fatehpur sikri.... laksh of hindus were converted, and that is the reason that india has highest muslim population.... after conversion tehy forgot their genuine roots... SOOOO SAD...
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by JGN on Jul 13, 2008 12:51 PM Permalink
Mr.Ali, Pl read some more history. The general policy of most of the rulers during the 700 years of Muslim occupation of India was to systematically replace the fabric of Hindu society and culture with a Muslim culture. They tried to destroy Indian religions, language and places of knowledge (universities e.g Nalanda and Taxshila) were totally destroyed by Muslims). They destroyed and desecrated places of thousands of temples including Somnath, Mathura, Benaras, Ayodhaya, Kannauj, Thaneswar and in other places. There was wholesale slaughter of the monks and priests and innocent Hindus with the aim to wipe out the intellectual bedrock of the people they overran.
The Muslims could not subjugate India with ease and were never able to rule it entirely. There was a valiant and ceaseless struggle for independence by Hindus to deliver India from Muslim tyranny. The Rajputs, Jats, Marathas and Sikhs led this struggle in North India. In the South this struggle was embodied in the Vijayanagar Empire. This struggle culminated when the Marathas ended the Muslim domination of India.
RE:RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by Sameer Bhagwat on Jul 13, 2008 02:07 PM Permalink
JGN
they were invaders that happen to be Muslims. Invaders all do the same thing....destroy.
Te moguls ruled us for over a century and still 80% hindus in India, come one be logical and by the way most historians reject the propoganda of forced conversions. How can one be converted by force any way.
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by JGN on Jul 13, 2008 08:30 PM Permalink
>>>>>>>>>>>How can one be converted by force any way.........are you an innocent child?
RE:What is the strength of ML in india
by Ghanta on Jul 13, 2008 11:59 AM Permalink
You gut*t*er idiot , ML is not representative of muslims in India, it is a small party probably like RLD. You secular and communist guys can blabbler about hindus and side muslims and get away with it because India is not an Islamic nation. Lets See what happens to you once you bring in Islamic rule in India, I am sure you would be begging in front of some temple with your eyes gauged out and limbs amputated
india's indepnedent domestic policy wants fewer kids per family. muslim league is opposing this policy by encouraging muslims to have more kids and thus is endangering this sound doemstic independent policy .
RE:muslim league is against india's independent domestic policy
by James bond on Jul 13, 2008 09:47 AM Permalink
ML - no one recognises them so it is plain stupid of you to say that Muslims are encouraged by ML.
RE:muslim league is against india's independent domestic policy
by Ali on Jul 13, 2008 11:14 AM Permalink
Not sure when you get this news from Star or Zee. More than 80% of India's population is Hindus so worry about them first and then you can talk about Muslims.
RE:SPILT INDIA STRUGGLE BY BJP/RSS
by Virgo on Jul 13, 2008 08:29 AM Permalink
You got everything you needed in 1947. All that you have to do is get a bus ticket to Pakistan at the Wagha station.
