The essence of nuclear deal is to make sure that India continues on the path of high economic growth. High economic growth is directly tied to the availability of energy. Currently, we are dependent on oil and as the recent spike in oil prices indicate, this source of energy is not only costly, its availability cannot be guranteed. Most people know that oil will not last for infinity and many nations are gearing up to end their dependence on oil. This is what India is aiming for. Nuclear power is a long term strategy for India, well thought out by the Prime Minister. He is the same guy who had the vision of economic liberalisation (although he was also forced due to the then dire conditions). I personally do not doubt his intentions behind the deal. We will realize the importance of this deal in the years to come. Not only does this gives us more muscle in world affairs, it ensures we have a viable alternative to oil and the bullying of opec. As far as left is concerend, they are the same guys who shouted murder after the 1991 liberalisation. They need to understand that their 1960s ideology needs to keep up with the times.
RE:Nuclear deal
by ASHOK on Jul 11, 2008 09:25 AM Permalink
I fully agree with you. Commies cried foul on libralization. They opposed India taking IMF/WB loan. They said India will never come out of the debt trap.
Now they are opposing Nuclear deal , which will unlock many opportunities for India , not only with USA but also With Russia / France / Japan and Germany.
It took 8 years for China to sign such a deal with USA. MM Singh was going to do it in 3 years, but Commies want to delay it forever so that India remains poor.
RE:this will move TRILLIONS OF OUR HARD-EARNED RUPEES, TO THE WEST GOVTS.
by Vote India on Jul 11, 2008 10:48 PM Permalink
your figures might be right - or wrong - but understand when we are working on nuclear energy, our economic condition will zoom - our Indian companies like BHEL, NTPC, etc will get a boost and FIIs (West) would come in as investor in these companies - which would make these companies grow by leaps and bounds and hence our economic conditions - US is a well developed country - but the plus point is their economy which controls world economy - once India starts zooming after this deal - the world's powerful economic country would be India - so we will control world economy - just figures mapping doesn't make us debtors - see the bigger picture - we are on steps of being Lenders and you are picturing us as debtors (or borrowers).
RE:this will move TRILLIONS OF OUR HARD-EARNED RUPEES, TO THE WEST GOVTS.
by ASHOK on Jul 11, 2008 06:16 AM Permalink
Where from you got figure of 2000 Billion $. This is totally absurd figure.
Consider this >>>Economic benefits to US
If India sets up 10 large size nuclear power plants, which is its intent in next 15 years, India will import technology and hardware from US for at least half of these projects (technology for the remaining may come from elsewhere). Each of these plants at a green field site will cost about $4 billion. In short, orders worth $15-20 billion could be placed with the US companies in next 6 to 8 years. Remaining orders may go to France, Germany, Canada and UK. Fund for these installations will come to India either in form of FDI or soft & commercial loans. Banks and equipment manufacturers abroad will be delighted to make this amount available to India. In return India will pay it back with goods and services export, in the same way China did it for the past 25 years. It is a win-win situation for the US lenders and US suppliers. Further expansion of business dealings on both sides will follow.
RE:RE:this will move TRILLIONS OF OUR HARD-EARNED RUPEES, TO THE WEST GOVTS.
by ASHOK on Jul 11, 2008 06:22 AM Permalink
Consider >> How many orders will go to Indian Companies, which will go in for site preparation. More over India will get a huge chunk of manpower trained in specialised area of Nuclear Installation erection commissioning. This manpower will be useful for scaling up our FBR program.
Have you ever worked in a large project, I worked at offshore oil installion and now I know how easily I get job because of my unique experience.
This Indo-US Nuke Deal is Not Good. It is Only to finance the Bankrupt G-8 & their allies.
The Propaganda of Lack of Energy is a UnTruth.
Proper Water Management thru Water Harvesting in Village Ponds, which were actually filled up and Encroached by Congress Party workers and its splinter groups Will Solve a Huge Power Requirement from the AGRIculture Sector.
Stop Power Theft And Use that Money to Finance New Projects.
Campaign for Social Afforestation with Plants which can be used as Bio-mass to generate Energy, Which means a double advantage. A Huge Amount of Energy Demand for the AC/Refrigeration Purposes will vanish. Also, Rains will be better And Hydel Power Generation with existing Capacities itself will Increase.
Diversify Industrial development across Geography, So that both Public and Private Transportation Costs will decrease. Which means Less Petrol/Forex And Also Lesser Energy Consumption in the Homes. People Also will have More Free time in their Lifes.
Encourage Non-Conventional Energy Sources which have much lesser Gestation Periods.
PLS UNDERSTAND that the GDP Growth Mongers & Foreign Agents Are Not Allowing the Above things happen because they want to grow their wealth at the COST of the Environment And Our Tax Money.
REJECT THIS N-DEAL. TOPPLE THIS UPA GOVT.
ALL THE PARTIES SUPPORTING THIS GOVT ARE ONLY SUPPORTING FOR THEIR SELFISH INTERESTS AND NOT BECOZ THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS IN THE DEAL.
RE:Let this Govt Go And So the Deal
by ASHOK on Jul 11, 2008 06:26 AM Permalink
who is stopping anyone from Water harvesting. This is purely a home to home exercise. Indian Government is not asking you to sink in Deep wells and waste electricity.
We have done water harvesting in our building, you too can do it.
Village people can also do it and many of them are doing it.
The deal as its title indicates is a Civilian Nuclear Agreement. India has presently 22 reactors. The deal permits India to separate our military and civilian reactors and place the later under an inspection regime of the IAEA. India has accordingly identified 14 reactors to be under the deal. The other 8 reactors, outside the deal, permits India's military nuclear program to continue unfettered.
When India conducted Pokhran II under the NDA regime, the US reacted by constituting the Nuclear Supply Group (NSG) which presently has 45 countries as its members. For countries to engage in nuclear transactions globally, it needed a NSG waiver. Because India did not have a NSG waiver, our nuclear program in this country began to hurt. Uranium supplies, spares etc dried up and consequently nuclear power generation capacity are operating at less than 50%. This means that the thousands of crores invested by the country is not providing full value in returns. The US is the most influential member of the NSG. Without US support, no waiver is possible. So the necessity of first striking a deal with the US, which even the Chinese have entered into.
RE:ManMohan Singh's Master Stroke
by All Right on Jul 10, 2008 05:23 PM Permalink
Even if the Agreement is ratified by the US Congress, by giving one year's notice, we can terminate the agreement, though we are obligated to keep the 14 reactors under the deal under IAEA inspection regime for perpetuity.
The Commies and Knickerwallahs scare the nation of the Hyde Act. The reality is that there is no mention of Hyde Act specifically under the 123 Agreement or in the IAEA Safeguard Agreement. Only indirectly through mention of operable "national laws". But this mention of "national laws" is mutual. This means if Hyde Act is a domestic law of the US, we can have a law exactly reverse of the Hyde Act. In a dispute, we are bound by our national laws while the US is to theirs -creating a legal gridlock. The Hyde Act in reality is a toothless tiger!
RE:ManMohan Singh's Master Stroke
by AK on Jul 10, 2008 09:22 PM Permalink
Your understanding of the agreement and international laws is good but you keep missing the point that once US Congress ratifies this agreement it overrides its own Hyde Act. So there is no HYDE Act in effect to think about.
RE:ManMohan Singh's Master Stroke
by All Right on Jul 10, 2008 05:23 PM Permalink
Once we secure NSG waiver, it does not bind us to nuclear trade with only the US. We are at liberty to trade with anyone we like. It also does not imply that trade would be a one-way street, India reduced to being a net importer. India's fast breeder reactors are cutting edge, generations ahead of even the US. We have the largest reserves of thorium in the world. Thorium cannot be directly used as a nuclear fuel. It needs to be processed into uranium. And this uranium is one of the highest quality in the world. However the glitch is that it will take at least another 10 years for our fast breeders to come on stream. So we need a short-strategy to plug our energy needs and this is where the deal finds a fit.
Further once India secures a NSG waiver, it is immaterial whether US Congress approves the Indo-US Agreement as we will be at liberty to trade with all other countries whether it maybe Russia, France, Australia etc. It is George Bush's personal credibility and US nuclear business interests that will be at stake that would ensure adequate pressure is created in the US for the US Congress to ratify the Indo-US agreement. The NSG waiver is accordingly our prime objective and not Indo-US Nuclear strategic ties as commies and knickerwallahs are projecting.
RE:ManMohan Singh's Master Stroke
by Pushp Shah on Jul 10, 2008 05:26 PM Permalink
WHAT ABOUT THE SPENT FUEL.........CAN ANYONE TELL ME ? ALSO PLEASE PROVIDE ME THE LINK TO THIS 29 PAGE IAEA DOCUMENT
RE:Sack Sonia and P.M.!
by praful nikam on Jul 10, 2008 05:27 PM Permalink
Thanks boss i just throughn my mobile and now bundaling wireless net also thanks a lot, Ha aur tumhe chithi likhta rahunga......
How many of you guys opposing the deal have actually read the 29 page IAEA document available in rediff?
Extracts - 1. Only those nuclear establishments which we identify as "civilian" needs to come under safeguards It is under our discretion to let an establishment come under IAEA safeguards
2. IAEA lays conditions to protect safeguarded installations from being used for military purposes - We are free to continue with our nuclear program from our military nuclear installations as long as we do not use output from "safeguarded" sites
3. IAEA will conduct inspections only on the safeguarded installations.
RE:Extracts of the Deal
by Hebbar R on Jul 10, 2008 05:01 PM Permalink
There are two issues in this subject. The first one is the Deal itself.
The second one is the way the subject has been handled by the Congress vis-a vis their own supporters. While the Left has been crying hoarse, the Congress refused to part with the agreement. Now after a website in US is suspected to have published the same, the Congress suddenly publishes it and embarrasses its own Minister of External Affairs. They have disrespected their own allies.
RE:Extracts of the Deal
by Pushp Shah on Jul 10, 2008 05:22 PM Permalink
WHAT ABOUT THE SPENT FUEL.........CAN ANYONE TELL ME ? ALSO PLEASE PROVIDE ME THE LINK TO THIS 29 PAGE IAEA DOCUMENT
RE:Extracts of the Deal
by Pravin R Panicker on Jul 10, 2008 04:26 PM Permalink
Page 3 of the IAEA document -
We have a sovereign right -
WHEREAS India has a sovereign and inalienable right to carry out nuclear research and development activities for the welfare of its people and other peaceful purposes;
We are accepted as a State with advanced nuclear technology -
WHEREAS India, a State with advanced nuclear technology, wishes to expand civil nuclear cooperation for its national development;
Page 4 -
India will place its civilian nuclear facilities under Agency safeguards so as to facilitate full civil nuclear cooperation between India and Member States of the Agency and to provide assurance against withdrawal of safeguarded nuclear material from civilian use at any time;
Benefits - • An essential basis of India’s concurrence to accept Agency safeguards under an India-specific safeguards agreement (hereinafter referred to as “this Agreement”) is the conclusion of international cooperation arrangements creating the necessary conditions for India to obtain access to the international fuel market, including reliable, uninterrupted and continuous access to fuel supplies from companies in several nations, as well as support for an Indian effort to develop a strategic reserve of nuclear fuel to guard against any disruption of supply over the lifetime of India’s reactors; and
Contingency - • India may take corrective measures to ensure uninterrupted operation of its civilian nuclear reactors in the event of disruption of foreign fuel supplie
RE:Extracts of the Deal
by Pushp Shah on Jul 10, 2008 05:19 PM Permalink
WHAT ABOUT THE SPENT FUEL.........CAN ANYONE TELL ME ? ALSO PLEASE PROVIDE ME THE LINK TO THIS 29 PAGE DOCUMENT
RE:Extracts of the Deal
by Sanjay Baxi on Jul 10, 2008 04:45 PM Permalink
Mr Panicker, please name if there is any nuclear facility in India, which is purely for military purpose. In other words, please name those specific nuclear installations, which will be outside the perview of IAEA, according to this deal.
One advantage with having separate installations is that during the time of war, another country cannot attack these installations, as it is IAEA safeguarded and IAEA knows that it is meant for civilian purposes. An attack on such installations will evoke strong reaction from international community. An adversary may have to think twice before attacking such installations
On the flip side, every body in the world will know where are the military installations and where are the civilian installations. It will make them much more vulnerable
Please change ur Name Hindu Communist:- Because ur name is making shame for both Hindu and LEFT. For LEFT they are Nidharmavadi(Means non beliver in god or religon) so they will not accept ur name, any way but they time to time supported lot of caste and relegions,(See OBC reservation they supported) i know its always for political gain i dont blame them they are oppurtunist they also want money and power. HINDU will never accept communist:- Please see the wordings use by this LEFT in case of RAM satu issue for LORD RAM, For us LORD RAM is energy of life, what left say (Mr Buddha , karat) just they are trying to through mud on sun carry on left..........HINDU'S also show what we are.. We always respected othere relegion when denmark cartoon issue of ISLAM hindu also supported muslim that time LEFT also join muslim for votbank why they dont belibe in relegion so how can they support to muslim.... So please remove Hindu from ur name
