When Arthur Conan Doyle published his first novel on Sherlock Holmes, citizens of London were so captivated by the character that they believed he was real, and started hunting for 221B, Baker street, the fictional address given in the novel as his residence.
No wonder people wish to incarnate and worship fictional characters. What baffles me are these : If it had really happened in history, why is it attributed to a single author for penning it as an epic? How is that nobody else from the same era not know anything about such a legendary personality? How did a man on earth, born to 2 humans, become god? How come an epic recorded a story spanning a few generations during an era when history only recorded the existence of flora and fauna? Why din't this figure in any history books? Why do all my compatriots, who are so convinced about the historicity of this story, don't expect this in their history books, but quietly pass their history exams with high grades? Why do my countrymen, who are in a constant pursuit of better knowledge, believe that an army of monkeys built an engineering marvel?
What did my nation and faith achieve in all the violence that ensued the now forgotten temple construction movement? Why is so much energy wasted in protecting a structure that the nation did not know existed until 15 years ago? How does it benefit my faith by keeping the structure? Or, how will it benefit the economy by making a recess in it? Why are followers of a faith
RE:Thinking Loud !
by Jay Rao on Jan 11, 2008 08:48 AM Permalink
My dear MR. For your reference, whatever happened during times of Lord Rama were recorded in his time by Saint Valmiki. This happened hundreds of years back when Mohammedans or christ followers did not know how to read and write. After hundreds of years later there was a visitor from Western country who had defined about India as a person if starting to walk from Kanyakumari in his childhood will reach Kashmir in his old age. Just imagine Saint Valmiki has written this by imagination, How he will be knowing about each and every place on the way from Kishkinda upto Lanka which is a island. So each place u visit where Lord Rama has passed even today there are monuments like Gokarna where he worshipped Lord Shiva and other so many things. If you want contact me and I will give details personally.
Regarding the government claim of natural formation with Nasa pictures which can fool nobody. Saint Valmiki can never had seen through satellite. And if formation is gradual then this should not have existed thousands of years back.
So instead of questioning and losing the history, let us realise and save this great monument.
Science still is in very young age. They have to go a long way. Recently they were able to discover Dwarka and understanding about Rama it may take hundred's of years. So let us wait.
RE:RE:Thinking Loud !
by r patil on Jan 11, 2008 08:14 AM Permalink
sada chiddi muslims and christains like you will not beleive even if confronted with proofs,what is the point in telling you? Suppose tommorow NDA comes to power and come with proof that Ram sethu is man made then will you beleive it.NO But you want us to believe this affidavit of the govt when we very well know that UPA and all the secular parties are ANTI-HINDU to the core. what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.
RE:Thinking Loud !
by tali on Jan 11, 2008 07:53 AM Permalink
Do you now why Tamils are always been kicked out from many places?First Burma,then Sri Lanka,now Malaysia.. Even the next state karnataka is disgusted with tamils want to know the answer? It lies on the perverted thing as exposed by this "unnani velabi"
RE:Thinking Loud !
by Venkat Chandra on Jan 11, 2008 08:48 AM Permalink
You ask --Why do my countrymen, who are in a constant pursuit of better knowledge, believe that an army of monkeys built an engineering marvel? Answer: They were not monkeys.They were like the Australoids and were strong well built men with very dark complexions because of the harsh sun in the south. They were mainly meat eaters and probably had big upper teeth and must have looked different from Shri Ram%u2019s men who came from the north. Later day story tellers depicted them as vanaras or monkeys and artists drew faces to look like a monkey. Like that of Shri Hanuman. It is like Harbajjan calling Symonds a monkey. Please read Carl Sagan%u2019s explanation on Evolution specially about the Samrai Crabs to know how facts get corrupted over a long period of time
RE:Thinking Loud !
by Unmai Vilambi on Jan 11, 2008 07:23 AM Permalink
contd.... expected to believe everything said in the faith? Lastly, why do half the population waste their human capital in worthless issues, when 70% of the population go to bed in empty stomach?
RE:RE:Thinking Loud !
by Suryanarayanan B on Jan 11, 2008 07:53 AM Permalink
Is there a concrete proof from contemprories that your grand father is actually your grand father, excepting that of your father? You you have a concrete proof on Allah and Jesus and the miracles they are supposed to have done? If you can prove this, then I accept your logic.
RE:Thinking Loud !
by sadaChiddi on Jan 11, 2008 07:57 AM Permalink
But as far as Historians are concerned, they never doubted the historicity of the person of Jesus or Muhammed. We have so many places in Nazareth which are testimonies of Jesus christ,however Whether you accept Muhammed or Jesus as your saviour or God or whatever is upto you and it is a matter of faith. You guys confuse Faith and History
RE:Thinking Loud !
by goodfellas on Jan 11, 2008 09:44 AM Permalink
True and honest indian historians will not doubt anything without research. Historians patronized by pseudo-secular governments will never question your religions in public even if they have serious doubts. Finally, the original christians (west) is still debating on life of Christ. Your church mafia has time and again tempered bible so much that its veracity is in serious concern. I don't know why converts like you who were fooled / enticed / forced to adapt christianity making farting noises. Begani shaadi mein abdullah diwana.
RE:RE:Thinking Loud !
by r patil on Jan 11, 2008 08:08 AM Permalink
There may not be dought about jesus and modammed,but nobody can give proof about mohammed accending heaven on horse's back,this said miracle is the most centre to the iraely palestine fight.Even the said miracle that jesus ascended heaven has no proof in jews and roman historian written,but this said miracle is sole foundation for christain faith.
Miracles are not bases of foundation for hinduism,Lord Ram is not associated with any miracles.he is mentioned in jain ,buddhist and mahabharat works.Ram sethu does excisted right at the same spot were hindu beleived it to excist and that's why they go to Rameshwar for pilgrimage.When some thing walks like a duck and quckes like a duck then surely it must be a duck,as simple as that.A serious history student does not ingrone age old folklores,atleast not the other country histories may our masists historians.
RE:Thinking Loud !
by r patil on Jan 11, 2008 08:01 AM Permalink
which 70% of the population you are talking about ?african,central and south american or Indian be specific.WHen hindus want their faith structutre to be protected why do you bring in people going empty stomach,at every drop of an hat ?Have you ever being to villages govt is already giving tons of rice and other nessasity nearly for free,which the so called poor sell it to others for a profit.This iam telling because I family in village has expereinced it,my relatives by from them.
For your questions on Ramayan,have you ever tried to even go through why Ram was part of history or no,have made your efforts to know it.In our history text book history starts from mauryas because Alexander's historian wrote about them,that's it.If it was not for their historian our historian would have refused to beleive that they were any mauryas at all,that's how our(maxists historians behave). Alexander faced tough fight with PURU does our history book tells us who this puru(the same puru whoes ancestors were kuru vanshis)was.Which are the other Kings alexander faced in India before he dediced to leave India.Who were the rulers before maurays ,for whome did chanakya was a minister(the nandas)?.Did we had no knigs and kingdom before chrandragupta mauryas ?
RE:Thinking Loud !
by Milind on Jan 11, 2008 08:08 AM Permalink
r patil,
Very good post. It is time we really understand history. Gone are the days of Indians being white mans slaves. When a white man Max Mueller says Aryan Invasion theory our stupid historians accept it. How come our Vedas which were written by Aryans do not describe Europe where they lived. Why do all geographical and astromomical references apply to the Indian sub-continent ?
RE:Thinking Loud !
by sameer bhagwat on Jan 11, 2008 08:05 AM Permalink
Opposition to the destruction of RamSethu/Adam's Bridge (Did you notice both are mythical characters?)is based on the fact that the project is unviable,unsustainable and destructive to the ecosystem.Lord Ram, if he manages to become the torchbearer of the controversy and ultimately manages to save the bridge from destruction, is as true and living a character to me,as I am to myself! The faith of millions is based on such an assumption.In the future perhaps,MK might become some dravidian demon and Ram might be ascribed as having destroyed him to uphold Dharma!Who are you to question popular belief unless you have plans of changing it? Faith and belief are basic human traits without which we become monkeys.Faith in the supernatural gives humans the strength to go to sleep on an empty stomach, hoping tomorrow shall bring the miracle of food.If you remove that faith from them,you are indeed a cruel cruel man.Religion is the Opiate of the masses and unless we have a ruler who brings about prosperity to his country (Like Ram is supposed to have done, hence "RamRajya"),Ram shall exist as our aspirational ruler!
RE:RE:Thinking Loud !
by siva b on Jan 11, 2008 07:55 AM Permalink
Why are you stopping at here...Why not talk about virgin Mary giving birth to Christ..This happened much much much later after Lord Ram. Why dont we see it in History books?
I am not for or against the Sethusamudram project. I don%u2019t know whether Ram or Ravan or any other person built it. I think the Govt has to consult oceanographers, Tsunami experts and marine scientists before going ahead on this project. Not the Archeological survey of India or religious groups. How many people have really seen the Ram sethu ? Sixty years ago as a seven year old, on a pilgrimage trip with some relatives to Dhanushkodi, I traveled on a train on the Pamban Bridge. A lady traveling on the train pointed out the %u201CRamar kattiya palam%u201D to all the children and we saw below the bridge, under about 10 ft of clear water, huge blocks of stone in perfect geometric shapes (rectangular and square).These were certainly man made. Nature does not produce such geometric shapes. The disastrous cyclone of 1964 ( or was it a Tsunami) washed away the bridge and a train load of passengers and probably deposited huge amounts of sand or marine materials on those stones and may be that is why one can%u2019t see the geometric shapes today.
RE:It is a man made structure
by Sanjay on Jan 11, 2008 10:22 AM Permalink
You are correct they also did the testing and found remains of three stories mandir under babri structure which probably was Hindu anyways.
I am sadden that they lied to me and told there was no bridge anymore. Only seeing the Satelite photo...........
Why are you people so dogmatic. How are there satilite image of a structure between Rameshwar and Sri Lanka?. What remains of that bridge is what we see in the satilite images. We all educated know sea level rise, how sediment dumps it load and it will be hard to imagine that the bridge would remain the same after millions of years. But we know if it is written that it is near Rameshwar he built the bridge to Sri Lanka , and the place described in the Ramayan is the exact same as shown in satelite image then no doubt that this is not coincidence.
Further all these scientist are saying this will be an enviromental disaster, why is that they are destroying an estuary which are the main breeding ground for marine life.Please read of the importance of estuaries in the internet even by the USA EPA, million of lives can be affected.
And why do you make a canal, to go around the island of Sri Lanka, I will suggest build a bridge to Sri Lanka,that would increase more commerce. then some stupid project thought of by DMK M Karnuanidhi who is well known Hindu basher, criminal, fraud, lier.
Why he wants it obiviously to destroy Ram Sethu like the Taliban. Because he loves the British who invent the word dravidian so he can divide further, because the British thaught South were to dark to be also Aryan, and hence this line of thought. An hate monger fanatic.
Hindu culture all have atmas, all atmas are equal, and through one atma one knows god.
Sethu projcet loss - 40,000 Crore Atomic project { Becue of the greemnt issue } loss - 26,000 Crore. Son totaly loss for Tamilnadu - 66,000 Crore. Bullheet - BJP Bullheet - Country Bullheet - Ram
RE:BJP garbage political
by sameer bhagwat on Jan 11, 2008 08:10 AM Permalink
hehehe......nice way of getting through the moderator's chopping board!!! Bullheet?!?!? -ROFL
It is because of arrogant Christian converts that people like Modi are becoming popular. They have started finding Hindu sympathysers after getting this feeling of being stabbed in the back by converted Muslims and Christians. Jis thali me khate ho usi me ched karte ho.
Being Hindu is communal and being a Muslim or Christian is religious eh ? When Hindus oppose conversion, you call that communal ? Just stay out of our business is all we Hindus ask and you call us Hindu fanatics ? Why should Hindus convert to Christianity when all Western Christianity has offered is millions of lives lost over world wars, Slavery, Crusades, Colonisation, Inquisition, Child Abuse, Sex Abuse, Drugs Abuse, Abuse by priests, 50% divorces, Pregnant teens...The list goes on. Atleast Muslims are true to their religion.
To believe that Jesus is born out of virgin Mary is faith and Ram Temple in Ayodhya or Ram Sethu is fiction ? Folks like you make a strong case for Modi to be popular. Dont think that your arrogance is doing your Christian brothers a favor. The animosity that you create causes them more grief than you can imagine. So dont come out here on this forum as Christian saviours. You are the problem. Not the solution. Tolerent Hindus will forget their wounds and share the Univesal brotherhood like we have done for ages. Had we not been tolerent, you all would be Hindus! Show your arrogance and you are asking for people like Modi to become a PM.
RE:Modi will become PM thanks to Christian converts
by sameer bhagwat on Jan 11, 2008 08:14 AM Permalink
When you get angry you are fogetting your tolerance.And Hindu is a word coined recently.According to Sanatana Dharma,even christians and muslims become our brethren as long as they follow the dharma prescribed in the scriptures.Look at the individual's heart and you shall soon find that beyond dogma,most human beings follow the religion of humanity.And as long as that does not get spoilt, Dharma shall exist......and we will live in peace.
Many here think Muslims revere the so called fake relic of Prophet Muhammed in Kashmir.let them know even in Medina there are so many places which the saudi government has destryoed and demolished because they dont want anyone to start worshipping any of these relics.But here because of outside stupid influence, even idiotic Muslims in india are revering a supposed hair of prophet.
RE:splitting the moon
by dollar peter on Jan 11, 2008 05:49 AM Permalink
blunder of the year...haha one more point Allah is not muslims god name. it is god in in arabic.
