RE:Equal opportunities
by Kumar on Jan 11, 2008 06:11 AM Permalink
I disagree, we need to vote based on values, character and not based on caste. If one corrupt lot replaces another corrupt lot nothing changes. We need to break out of this vicious cycle. Kill the caste system to bring Indian alive.
RE:RE:Equal opportunities
by usa on Jan 11, 2008 03:24 PM Permalink
India does not need (y)our merit, values, character etc. India can buy this merit from Chinese at a much cheaper rate.
If you really want to eradicate casteism in India,
Vote for candidates from your caste only. Do not care if he is corrupt/competent.
India never had the merit system. People belonging to certain caste were only allowed to become teachers, the literacy rate in India is for everyone to see. People from only a certain caste were allowed to become rulers, the slavery of India is for all to see. People from only a certain caste were allowed to be businessmen, the poverty and corruption is for everyone to see. Majority of IAS and IPS officers are corrupt, what merit are we talking about here? Merit to mug up books and utterly lack character. I will anyday take a good strong character and ethics over the so called merit in India.
RE:The merit system fraud in India
by usa on Jan 11, 2008 01:28 AM Permalink
Government should amend constitution to notify that reservations will prevail till 85% of marriages in India are inter-caste...
RE:RE:The merit system fraud in India
by usa on Jan 11, 2008 01:58 AM Permalink
Can you define intelligence? Nobel prize will not guarantee 'intelligence'? Ever heard of LTCM (Long term capital management)?
The issue to be solved is socio-economic collusion aka casteism aka racism.
Why are Indians seeding racism in the society using their Family Names viz gupta, sharma, patel etc..
In Hinduism parents covertly brainwash their kids to coerce other children as per the caste hierarchies. And publicly "pretend" every one is equal.
As a result people are voting for candidates from their castes only. They do not care if he is corrupt/competent.
RE:The merit system fraud in India
by Rupakshi on Jan 11, 2008 01:50 AM Permalink
It was not true that only certain castes were allowed to become IAS and IPS during British. It was totally merit. Many freedom fighters including my own father refused to sit for ICS(as it was called during British era-now it is IAS) to protest against serving the British rule in India. The caste based reservation was introduced vigorously and blindly in the post independent era in part due to the framers of constitution like Mr. Ambedkar who was passionate about his caste. Rajmannar (for the information of tamil casteist fresk-he was not a Brahmin), the chief justice of Madras struck it down as it violates fundamental rights of citizens of India. Then Nehrus have written that into constitution for a period of 10 years saying that it would be for one generation (each 10 years is considered to be a generation). Later on they used this as a legal bribe, vehicle to ascending to power with the help of groups. Now it is a cancer that no one can cure. Individuals like Karunanidhi thrive on it like the parasites on a wound. If they really want to uplift down trodden, there are several honest ways to do it. This dishonest way which converts people into shameless creatures without self esteem need not be the path.
RE:The merit system fraud in India
by Kumar on Jan 11, 2008 06:14 AM Permalink
The acharya from Kerala temple who cleans the temple beacause an unclean caste child and women visit the shrine is a bigger parasite than Karunanidhi. That doesn't mean Karunanidhi is not a parasite, he is, but it shows how much bigger are the castiest/racist parasites.
RE:The merit system fraud in India
by usa on Jan 11, 2008 02:02 AM Permalink
Certain sections of the society have accumulated sins & wealth for 5000 years. It's payback time now.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Reservations work and are good for India. They are making sure that the government offices, educational institutes etcetera are a a true representation of the population of India rather than being in the hands of a few racists who hate the common masses of India because of the evil caste system baggage. What is the proof that reservations for lower castes work? Well, the best states in India such as Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka and Andhra have the most reservations and have created harmony in their socieety compared to the North Indian states such as UP and Bihar where reservations are only on the paper and don't truely exist. States in the middle such as Maharastra and Gujarat have better social indicators than the North Indian states. Also, the corrpution and neopitism is less in the government officies in South Indian states compared to North Indian states. So you can see that reservations are worth it and are good for Indian society creating a participative, progressive and developing democracy. There should be aggressive reservations in the top tier of the police force, the judiciary and senior government post so that kind hearted people can replace the hateful castiest/racist at the top. Indian will continue to remain third world if it doesn't becomes a representative democracy. Jai Hind.
RE:RE:Reservations work and are good for India
by usa on Jan 11, 2008 01:40 AM Permalink
No State in India can 'productively' govern more than 2 million citizens.
Government should 'decentralize' 602 districts in India into States or Cantons as in Switzerland.
RE:Reservations work and are good for India
by usa on Jan 11, 2008 01:35 AM Permalink
No State in India can 'productively' govern more than 2 million citizens.
Government should 'decentralize' 602 districts in India into States or Cantons as in Switzerland.
In this state, the reservations are 90% and fraudulent interviews to eliminate any candidate they like is routine. Their claim that they can not take out creamy layer is fraudulent claim. CM and his family are creamy layer. The fellow who took that dirty movie called Periyar is creamy layer. Creamy layer by definition is one who has taken advantage of the reservations for two or even three generations and the one who is earning more than certain amount and the one who is in gazetted govt. position. Supreme court can breath some sense into this, but they cannot implement. The caste tirade goes on there. They justify the nonsense by cursing Brahmins at every opportunity. Why only in Tamilnadu, in every state there are people in below poverty line line irrespective of caste. If they say my caste had opportunity 1000 years ago, I did not live 1000 years ago and such statements are speculative. No one knows who my relatives were 1000 years ago, and what kind of hardships they had to endure under the foreign rulers or even native rulers. I am not against quota to uplift people who need. Children whose fathers are ministers, governors, IAS officers, Judges to claim backwardness is obscene and takes away the possibility of uplifting those who really need it. One has to be aware that even if 100% reservation is imposed, it would not be sufficiently cover the needy.
RE:In fact it is not 69%
by Demo-crazy on Jan 11, 2008 12:14 AM Permalink
Unfortunately, ALL our political parties are hell bent on continuing reservation, though it was supposed to be eliminated after a couple of decades. They keep extending the reservation by another decade. All this means is that the scheme is flawed in logic and implementation. The richer among the backward communities are continuing to exploit the reservation (and they are influential political class too), and are not allowing the poor among them to overcome the wretched conditions they live in.
Infact it is the upwardly mobile backward castes that are exploiting the poor, as a votebank. That is the reason for them to oppose the creamy layer definition.
RE:In fact it is not 69%
by sivasubramanian on Apr 10, 2008 03:11 PM Permalink
The reservation continues even now means it shows the status of the Hifh caste rulers for the past 60years.
What is meant by lower caste? What is low in them. They have same rights as anyone else... they can go anywhere... work anywhere.. studying anything they want.
People always like to move fwd and lead a better quality life. But people here fight to be called backward and want reservations. It just goes to show that these people are lazy and do not have courage to face the competitive world.
What is meant by lower caste? What is low in them. They have same rights as anyone else... they can go anywhere... work anywhere.. studying anything they want.
People always like to move fwd and lead a better quality life. But people here fight to be called backward and want reservations. It just goes to show that these people are lazy and do not have courage to face the competitive world.
RE:What is lower caste
by Demo-crazy on Jan 11, 2008 12:15 AM Permalink
It is only in India that being "Backward" is considered a big plus. More and more communities are muscling their way into the backward communitiy definitions - Gujjars, Meenas, etc in Rajasthan.
We must do away with ALL reservation based on CASTE. Reservation MUST be given on ECONOMIC CRITERIA only, irrespective of caste or religion. Also, there shall be NO reservation for jobs, once a student avails the benefit of reservation in Education. This will ensure the students will have to strive hard to qualify in their exams.
Once a person avails of reservation benefit, his children should not avail of it, because the family is 'economically uplifted'. This will ensure that the needy will get the benefit and we keep shrinking the basket of reservation and encourage merit across all sections.
Even otherwise, the current craze or pressures to have more communities in reservation category have probably introduced some kind of ranking (based on merit economic criteria) amongst the reserve categories.
RE:What is lower caste
by sivasubramanian on Apr 10, 2008 03:24 PM Permalink
Demo Crazy, You guys try to understand the difference between OBC and SC/ST.SC/ST resrvation is exisiting in constitution as Dr.Ambadkar,Was the part of that comittee and he got for his people.But the OBC are the people who are in the equal ecconomic status like SC/ST and are not given the resrvation in job/Studies. To this OBC the government have the scholarship to complete the study.After that they go to the job market there thrown out by the other caste in neopotism/Favouritism.I am one who was affected by the neopptism of Brahymins. Now,i thank the muslim arab because if they are not generous,i might have been living in the mental torture without job/without house/money. Now i am 18 years in gulf,i am well placed than any of the IAS/IIT/Governer even in a capacity of money.But still i don't think it is easy to get a respectable position/Job for my children.
RE:What is lower caste
by Rupakshi on Jan 11, 2008 01:57 AM Permalink
I was called high caste. When I was working in India, I never came home before 8 pm. so was the case thousands classified as higher caste I used to know. If your statement is correct, if low caste is working hard, give them reservations so that they become hight caste and need not work-good logic.
RE:What is lower caste
by Kumar on Jan 11, 2008 06:09 AM Permalink
Have you seen a laborer women do back breaking work with her child tier to her back with her Sari? How many upper caste women work? Does your upper caste grandmother and mother works? How many upper caste people do lowely paid backbreaking work only to return to a shanty during the night, eat rice with salt and onion, go back to sleep empty stomach on a hard floor and mosquito infested place and then get back to work where the evil contractors cheat them. These laborer guys still have ethics and will not steal but do back breaking subsidized labor for you guys. Their children don't even get full stomach meal and their parents cannot even take sick leave and paid leave from work to look after themselves and the kids when they are sick. India is truly great. Indians are truly compassionate. Australians are racists but Indians are not. Hypocrites, Indians that is!
RE:What is lower caste
by Demo-crazy on Jan 11, 2008 01:39 PM Permalink
There are poor people in every caste / religion. Just because you do not know does not mean they do not exist.
My point was specifically about reaching the people you mention through the reservation. Unfortunately, what we see is that those who have reaped its benefits are continuing to exploit it, while others (those you mention) are still struggling. The 'backward' political class continues to exploit them while resisting the definition of the "CREAMY" layer. So, what should be done to help those who really need to be helped by these policies?
RE:What is lower caste
by Kumar on Jan 12, 2008 02:57 AM Permalink
Yes, for every 98 poor people from lower caste there are 2 poor people from upper caste. That's why caste based reservations make so much sense ! But if it's possible the creamy layer should be excluded from reservations.
So are you accepting that by birth Brahmins and other forward castes are superior as compared to your backward caste/SC???....Are you not ashamed to say that %u201Cwithout reservations all Govt., posts would go to Upper castes.??.....Do you consider yourself so inferior?%u201D..
Friend God made people equal, but not every one is very intelligent or very good. It depends on individual and not based on caste. Moreover please see the plight of poor people, they are among all castes/religion%u2026
Do not divide society based on caste%u2026.Granting seats without merit is making the country backward%u2026Previously government offices were not so corrupt, government hospitals and schools had some decent standard.
But with the appointment of people based on caste and NOT MERIT, we have bad teachers, inefficient doctors, collapsing bridges built by engineers without knowledge as they don%u2019t have merit and get the job because of Caste and everyone of the public is suffering including BCs/SCs.
Even economically poor should be given free guidance, free books,other monetaryconcessions and NOT free jobs since society gets affected by ineficient people in public offices !
RE:Hey Jagan
by Demo-crazy on Jan 11, 2008 12:25 AM Permalink
One Ambedkar, one Dr. Kalam, one Azim Premji are sufficient to say that if there is a will to succeed there is way.
No one can choose his or her parents or caste or religion. What we can definitely change is our economic status by dint of hard work. At times there may be some need of support. But most of those who succeed are those who helped themselves and did not fear failure.
RE:Hey Jagan
by Anil Nair on Jan 15, 2008 05:41 AM Permalink
I consider Caste system is an excellent social format to enhance and accentuate intelligence,creativity and skills in the society. I personally believe in caste and racial purity also, to certain extent. I accept and respect people of all colours, but still have an affinity towards fair skin. Now, one does not need any computer application system to confirm, whether certain races are more intelligent or not. Brahmins are definitely an intelligent race ( I am not a Brahmin by birth) and their contributions to Indian and world civilisation is eternal and colossal. Even if Karunanidhi implement 100% reservation for ST/SC/BC, still Brahmins will advance and lead intelligent portals of Tamil and Indian society, because a legislation can not provide BRAHMINICAL CULTURE,DISCIPLINE AND ORIENTATION to reserved categories.....one needs wisdom to understand that it is BRAHMINICAL WAY OF LIFE, which gives brahmins, what they are envied at.
RE:Hey Jagan
by sivasubramanian on Apr 10, 2008 03:36 PM Permalink
Anil Nair, Your are born to brahmin stepfather,that you know very well,you will talk like this only, I don't expect any thing better than this from you?Go to 500 years back,non of our tamil literatures were written by Brahmins,Call sangham literature 2500 years old and Kaddai sangam literature like Chlapathikaramin 500 Ad, All your brahmins cadvancement came in the later period of British rule,where the Kshatriyas/Muslims become enemies to British and these brahmins and nairs betrayed other fellow hindus by doing addv services to their bosses.Such guy are cl;ever enough to claim they have inherited inteligence.Even now let your caste fight the other caste,you know where you would be. Shut all inteligent theory.
RE:Hey Jagan
by sivasubramanian on Apr 10, 2008 03:44 PM Permalink
Arti, When you are chennai or india you don't want to fall in love with OBC guys.But if the same guy reach USA,you are the one to book him first. What is your theory i know,To keep the OBC being depleted from the advancement still to claim that caste don't have enogh developement. Finaly all OBC developed guys are booked by Highcaste girls.
