Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 07:35 AM Permalink | Hide replies

There are murderers and rapists in ALL religions who cause strife to other innocents. But then Why ONLY blame MUSLIMS....the reason is Muslims do it in the name of Religions as Kuran asks them to do it that way...

no other Religion in the world to my knowldege asks its followers to hate others, only becasue they don't belong to it. IF it does, even if it is my own Religion it has to be CONDEMNED..

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." Qur'an 9:29

you will find most god-fearing muslims will either defend it stating it is being quoted out of context or this is a campaign against them...

my only hope is they one day start thinking as human beings rather than as muslims

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 07:50 AM Permalink
The command to fight in verse 9:29 relates to those non-muslims who commit agression and not those who are committed to live in peace
Can you answer me How come there are millions of christians living in Arab countries for centuries..?

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 07:56 AM Permalink
this is justification you are giving. Quran doesn't seem to make any such distinction...why does Quran talk about nijas?? isn't this institutionalised prejudice

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 08:06 AM Permalink
>>>Quran doesn't seem to make any such distinction>>.Looks like you have mastered all of quran..?
There is a clear injuction on how one should conduct in war..

And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you and do not exceed the limits. Verily, Allah loves not those who
exceed the limit. (190) And kill them wherever you find them and drive them out from whence they drove you out; and mischief
(disbelief) is more grievous than slaughter; and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you therein;
but if they do fight you than slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. (191) But if they desist, then verily Allah is
forgiving, Merciful. (192) And fight with them until there is no (more) mischief (disbelief), and religion be only for Allah; but if
they desist then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. (193) The sacred month for the sacred month and
reprisal (is lawful) in all sacred things; whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict the like aggression on him as he has
inflicted on you; and fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (194) And spend in the way of Allah
and cast not yourselves into perdition with your own hands; and do good; verily Allah loves those who do good

The above is the full verse, which people quote only the verses in the middle.Now read this and check whether this law is fair enough..

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RE:RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 08:09 AM Permalink
But if they desist, then verily Allah is forgiving, Merciful.(192) And fight with them until there is no (more) mischief (disbelief), and religion be only for Allah; but if they desist then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

Note again

...but if they desist then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors....

Is this not fair enough...Where is the question of hostitlity if you desist from aggression..

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RE:RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:13 AM Permalink
you are atually proving my point...it appears that disbeleif in Allah the unseen and unknown is reason enought to be salughtered...

Salim forget for a moment that this is from Quran...if say Bible or Bhagavath Gita said, kill those who do not believe...what would you think of that 'holy text'...???

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RE:RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:23 AM Permalink
Pls explain this...

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." Qur'an 9:29

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 08:33 AM Permalink
So from the moment it revealed,Prophet Muhammed and his companions went and killed every one they saw is it?
There were many non-belivers in their own families of the companions.No muslim takes theses verses without the historical context..
As i said earlier,fighting is only against agressors -who also happen not to belive in Allah

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:43 AM Permalink
i hoep you are not talking for Osama and his gang who claim to be more muslim than other muslims....

beleive it or not if we leave this uncontrolled and unquestioned muslims will endanger themselves and the rest of the world

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 08:47 AM Permalink
Osama and his gangs are comparable to any other terrorist organization.Islam asks its belivers to stand up and fight against oppression.Like any nation ,it also endores the legitimacy of armed struggle against oppression but if a crook thinks putting a bomb on a market place is a legitimate fight, then we have to check that guys (or group of guys) mental temperament rather than Quran

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 08:20 AM Permalink
You must be extremly out of mind for saying Quran asks all unbelivers to be killed?

Didnt you notice the words below??

...do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you...
...whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict the like aggression on him as he has
inflicted on you....
.. but if they desist then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors...

Secret-You must be extremly prejudiced to say these verses are provoking hostility and war..Any sane person will understand the above verse is a response to provocation and how Muslims should conduct themselves..

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 07:53 AM Permalink
Whoever practices unprovoked violence in
Islam is a sinner and killing an innocent human being, believer or unbeliever, in Islam is equal to killing the whole of humanity. This is Islam

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RE:RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:01 AM Permalink
the crime and punishment diktats are 7th century old...Quran states that a women has to have a male witness to prove she's reaped...

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by sadaChiddi on Feb 23, 2008 07:54 AM Permalink
Rapists in the name of Islam..This calumny sounds new ..
Can you expound on this??

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:09 AM Permalink

sample this fact...250,000 bengali muslim women raped during 1971 war because some mullah said they are all 'nijjas' and NOT 'Pakis0(porkis)...

i urge you to read the chapter 8 Al-Anfal...spolis of war...it will give you the rudimentary idea of what i'm talking about

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by sadaChiddi on Feb 23, 2008 08:13 AM Permalink
who knows,even if you say 20000 millions were raped, I dont have any evidence to refute ,ironicaly you too wouldnt have except citing a hindutuva blog which is as good as your guess.
Now even if what to say is illustrative of a real event,are you saying quran asks Muslims to kill their women counterparts..?

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RE:RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:17 AM Permalink
No Women are given some 'equality', quran says they are poor in intellect, their evidence is half as valuable as a man's...they are spoils of war so you can force yourself on them, they very night you killed their kith and kin...you can posses them in the 'right' hand...and right hand can have as many slaves as you can garner in war...do you see the insanity of it..!! or will you continue to sit on the imaginary high horse...

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:33 AM Permalink
Islamic Equality??
Men are protectors and maintainers of women; women must be devoutly obedient, if not then beat them...4:34
Fairness??
God created us from a single person and made mate of like nature; pregnancy is a light burden to women...7:189
Light burden..???

Women witness is half of men...2:282

Women, slaves and camels are same; must seek Allah's refuge from all these...(Sunaan Abu Dawud 11.2155)

do you need more...my friend stop defending a book that you didn't write...don't fool yourself that becasue something is presented as a religious text it is beyond questioning and is always right..

we could not have done away with sati if Hindus thought that way...

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by salim on Feb 23, 2008 08:26 AM Permalink
Islam gave woman the rights of inheritance,rights for widow marriage,rights of divorce atleast 1400
yrs before western civilization started realizing them as rights
Can you point me, where quran says Woman are low in intelleuct??

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RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:25 AM Permalink
i hope in the local mosque they are NOT eaching wiki pedia is a Hindutva site...go and search for Pak Army atrocities during war...you will understand why 'Pork'istan has no hope..!!

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RE:RE:Fundamnetal difference
by secret on Feb 23, 2008 08:37 AM Permalink
precisely this is the questioning mind that is the need of the hour...it is very likely that even Quran and Bhagavad gita or bible was a wikipedia of that time where we are ataching more importance than required...why don't we address today's issues of need for peace and harmony and why fight to defend a 7th century book...???remember i'm not saying Islam is the ONLY faulty religion...but you can't refute it is too stteped in bigotary...

on a sepaarte note, wikipedia entries do go through a quality and editorial review...

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RE:RE:Fundamnetal difference
by sadaChiddi on Feb 23, 2008 08:28 AM Permalink
wikipedia --??secret shall i create a entry for you now..?and say you are a nobel laureate..?
Who you are trying to fool here?wikipedia is a site anyone can say any nonsense.
Wikipedia is good only when it deals with apolitical,non-religions issues

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