Very good comments that were received for my postings on the above subject which was more than anticipated. Every Indian who comes here is not a great guy but having come and made a comfortable life,feeling great about it without contributing any thing in return for the aged parents and some weak-links in society back home is abominable.Returning back is one's choice and I don't see any body returning generally, may be they are afraid of conditions at home, but they should also boldly acknowledge that the culture and traditions to which each generation is a practical messenger comes to an abrupt end, despite the semblance of values we try to sustain by celebrating some of the reilgious functions and periodic visits to temples. This was the purpose of my posting the average Indian migrant's mental state and I am thankful for the good and bad comments received which to-gether makes a lot of sense.
My parents are NRVs - non resident villagers of some village and they migrated to the city in another state. Now their progenies have no contact with their village, culture, language etc. This is also migration and assimilation in the melting pot.
"If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions, I should point to India" Max Mueller
"India was the mother of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages. She was the mother of our philosophy, mother through the Arabs, of much of our mathematics, mother through Buddha, of the ideals embodied in Christianity, mother through village communities of self-government and democracy. Mother India is in many ways the mother of us all." Will Durant
"In India, I found a race of mortals living upon the Earth, but not adhering to it, inhabiting cities, but not being fixed to them, possessing everything, but possessed by nothing" Apollonius Tyanaeus quotes (Neo-Pythagorean)
RE:....This is India
by raj arora on Aug 08, 2008 07:54 AM Permalink
yes dont also forget people spittin on the streets, breaminh queues ,honking and breakinh trafic signals
RE:....This is India
by Jay on Aug 08, 2008 08:07 AM Permalink
and don't leave yourself out of that list either. Rats like you are the biggest nuisance.
RE:....This is India
by raj arora on Aug 08, 2008 08:11 AM Permalink
oh ya wat ever as i said truth hurts and its eatin u up so wat better way to hit back bit call me one of em lol sorry am out of there a long time ago ,how are the filthy streets and mosquitoes doin?
RE:....This is India
by Vijay on Aug 08, 2008 07:58 AM Permalink
raj brother, who is this people? it is we, who spit on the streets, breaking queues and breaking traffic signals. don't talk the change, walk the change. i assure you won't see the results this generation, maybe the next, or the next, but put in the process, be a proud Indian youth. there is nothing wrong in taking small steps, when you don't even take one! And brother, people break rules all over the world, America, Europe, Africa everywhere....look at it that way!! Be proud to be an Indian, brother!!
RE:....This is India
by raj arora on Aug 08, 2008 08:01 AM Permalink
dude i live in the states , its once in a blue moon u get some one honking ,people drive in lanes ,dask u if u in queue ,dont pee on the streets ,in india this will never change and if u askin me wat im doing well nutin any ne can do ,india will always remain a pig sty
RE:....This is India
by Vijay on Aug 08, 2008 08:15 AM Permalink
brother, please continue living in the states happily, we will work hard and make our country better. and remember, it is all a matter of perspective, to me, killing innocent lives in a foreign land for the sake of "oil" is a much much bigger crime than spitting on the streets! but as i said, it is all a matter of perspective. leave in peace :-)
RE:....This is India
by ramvermadew on Aug 08, 2008 11:31 AM Permalink
Stop being pessimist and tell me what is ur problem India or Indian. Bcoz all u have written is about people not India.
RE:....This is India
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 07:56 AM Permalink
Your revelations about India are excellent and that is what I said in my post "True PIO", i.e. most of the metro Indians live in the past.
RE:RE:....This is India
by Vijay on Aug 08, 2008 08:01 AM Permalink
What is wrong in feeling proud about the post? Aren't you proud about your father, mother? Are you just forget them, because they are from the past? A proud citizen, will never do anything that will hard his fellow citizen or his country. Be positive brother! We have lots to do!!
RE:....This is India
by Vijay on Aug 08, 2008 08:08 AM Permalink
brother, AK! If you are truly proud, inspired, and love the country, your every action will reflect that! be it in your professional or your personal life. let us not give up hope, let us keep doing small things right, remember it is only those small steps that we take will ultimately take us to our destination!!
RE:....This is India
by Karthik on Aug 08, 2008 10:02 AM Permalink
Vijay..I appreciate ur effort..Let us not care about this "so-called-disciplined" NRIs. Its important to stop people spitting on road. Even more important is stop people like raj spitting on image of India globally. Raj, If u think India is a shit then that shit will be on u wherever u go..no matter u hold a green card...!!
RE:....This is India
by raj arora on Aug 08, 2008 08:19 AM Permalink
trust me people like vijay are all hot air,iv seen the types they will say proud indian and then throw his litter on the streets , nutin will change trust me
RE:RE:....This is India
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 08:15 AM Permalink
I sincerely hope you are following your own preaching and making the difference in your area.
RE:RE:RE:....This is India
by raj arora on Aug 08, 2008 08:02 AM Permalink
ever hear the saying? in good countries its illegal to pee on the streets,but legal to kiss ,in india its vice versa lol ,filty place
RE:....This is India
by Vijay on Aug 08, 2008 08:05 AM Permalink
brother, what joy do you get in abusing India? I'm sure your name suggests you are an Indian, but please do not abuse. It doesn't do any good to any body. Yes, there are things that doesn't quite look right in our beloved land, but that doesn't mean we should abuse.
RE:....This is India
by raj arora on Aug 08, 2008 08:07 AM Permalink
no one is abusing im just sayin people r filthy and indiciplined ,if truth hurts sorry cant help ya
RE:....This is India
by raj arora on Aug 08, 2008 08:14 AM Permalink
well ak unfortunately yes ,but there is sumthin called change which i brought about ,its sd so many indians come here and still behave like they in india and give all of us a bad name ,losers still spit paan and act like animals
RE:RE:....This is India
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 08:20 AM Permalink
Change is what I am doing. I grew up in India & US and then moved to India and made my children grow up in US & India. They can be classified good Indian & US Citizens and their friends imitate them and take my advice and are changing in their thinking.
"India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border!" Hu Shih, former Ambassador of China to USA
"Civilizations have arisen in other parts of the world. In ancient and modern times, wonderful ideas have been carried forward from one race to another...But mark you, my friends, it has been always with the blast of war trumpets and the march of embattled cohorts. Each idea had to be soaked in a deluge of blood..... Each word of power had to be followed by the groans of millions, by the wails of orphans, by the tears of widows. This, many other nations have taught; but India for thousands of years peacefully existed. Here activity prevailed when even Greece did not exist... Even earlier, when history has no record, and tradition dares not peer into the gloom of that intense past, even from until now, ideas after ideas have marched out from her, but every word has been spoken with a blessing behind it and peace before it. We, of all nations of the world, have never been a conquering race, and that blessing is on our head, and therefore we live....!" Swami Vivekananda, Great Indian Philosopher
"If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions, I should point to India" Max Mueller
"India was the mother of our race and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages. She was th
RE:.....This is India
by Ramesh Iyer on Aug 08, 2008 08:17 AM Permalink
Well SAID. SOME IGNORANT may not understand due to the time. But you said the write.
RE:.....This is India
by Kaju on Aug 08, 2008 10:24 AM Permalink
Come down to mother earth and get your head around. What do you see around you today? Stop posting irrelevant quotes from greats of yesteryears. Google out what scholars have to say about India today.
RE:.....This is India
by Richa Singh on Aug 08, 2008 03:14 PM Permalink
I agree...instead of insulting your own country and finding drawbacks..better come here..and improve. Dont be coward. Show your capability in actions not in words
RE:.....This is India
by Ramesh Iyer on Aug 08, 2008 08:18 AM Permalink
Well SAID. SOME IGNORANT may not understand due to the time. But you said the right one.
Oh brothers, I get goose bumps whenever I read this. Brothers, keep your head high, feel the pride and thump your chest saying you are an INDIAN!!!
"We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made!" Albert Einstein
"If there is one place on the face of earth where all the dreams of living men have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India!" French scholar Romaine Rolland
"India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only!" Mark Twain
"So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds. Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked." Mark Twain
"She (India) has left indelible imprints on one fourth of the human race in the course of a long succession of centuries. She has the right to reclaim ... her place amongst the great nations summarizing and symbolizing the spirit of humanity. From Persia to the Chinese sea, from the icy regions of Siberia to Islands of Java and Borneo, India has propagated her beliefs, her tales, and her civilization!" Sylvia Levi
"India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20
Is there a country that can match the glorious past of our beloved India? Is there a country that can match the tolerance shown by our beloved India through much of its invasion? Is there a country that can match the intellectual prowess (when most of the civilization was living in the forest and so much so that it attracted thinkers from east and west to her) that our beloved India exhibited? Is there a country that can match the colorful diversity of our beloved India? Will there will be a country that can match the glorious heights that our beloved India will reach in the future? No! No! No!! India is a truly great country, the cradle of civilization, the birthplace of mankind!! I love you, my beloved India!!
who is that fool who gave this rascal a chance to write his personal view in a public web site? Let the NRI not even take birth india. If tghey have taken birth to an indian they are NRI only. This fool does know that? Who made this guy as writer and correspondent. He is the first stupid
RE:who is that fool ?
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 07:37 AM Permalink
In non science it is not 2 plus 2 equal to 4 it is sixteen shades of grey (between white and black). Author has made very good personal observations and is introspecting. I do not see your problem. Do not take "I" literally but as a mean of soul searching.
Who are you and from have you have you come. The great Sage Ramana Maharishi sitting at one spot in Arunachala for years answered this. " Who are you? Inquire about the self. This attracted Somerset Maugham , Arthur Osborne , and many from the West to visit Arunachala.
About NRI , they are best where they are. Instead of writing about Bhajiya thale formulations of a homosapien's primordial soup mix, they should do something constructive for India. Do charity , help institutes. There are many NGO bodies doing good work. Help them.
This, who is the numero uno Indian overseas, is question asked by persons who have had no time to self introspect.
Most of the people who write in these forums are very well traveled, well informed and intellectuals. They can collectively provide solutions to many problems India is facing (corruption, dishonesty in work place, traffic, planning.. to name a few). Many people think that its our politician who are downgrading everything... many thinks its the student who are coming to US and not providing the enough research and development work force.. can be anything. My point is.. if many intellectuals will discuss one problem in very detail in a constructive way, they can find a solution or best possible improvement to any problem. My suggestions is: (1) we should have a website where people can post there views (2) website should have a membership fee (nominal ..say 100 dollars or so) so that only serious people join and post there views (3) we need to convey those discussions to appropriate personals in India to have a look and to implement them. [ probably this will happen by itself if the website will get enough attention, Or may be everyone need to work on one problem and find a collective solution and published it in all the media to get attentions.. I think even this itself is a problem and many good minds can come up with a possibilities.) (4) If I will receive 50 such replies, I am ready to put my time and efforts to launch this kind of website. (5) If you think this is a good idea, reply to show a positive attitude even if you know that you will not contribute in anyways.
RE:RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 06:43 AM Permalink
Indian government machinery still needs another few years before it can start accepting good ideas. Thinking here is:
1. Not to learn from others mistakes but from ones own.
2. The system is too selfish and until their own needs are met they will not change.
3. All that is required is money, they have all the ideas.
First and foremost, election process needs to be changed. Elected people have to be educated thinkers who can decipher the advice given by the beaurocrats.
Enact the right laws after proper debate that is not partisan but of national interest. Foremost being anti-corruption.
And then expedient judicial system. Late justice is denied justice.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by awnish gupta on Aug 08, 2008 07:08 AM Permalink
Your thoughts are very well thought. I agree with most of them. Here are my points. what grantee or indication we have which suggest that that few years it can start accepting good ideas ? after lalu, mulayam, devagoda we find mayawati in the line. Politicians are keep changing with time and everyone will look for their own interest before the national interest. As soon as they will be get their pockets filled up and think of nation interest they will be replaced with another greedy person and the whole process will start again. May be one need to change the whole educational system so that kids stop their cheating habits and we see a difference in 15 years when they will be adults. Or may be we should let the highest rank person (in one department of government) be as corrupt as he is right now but somehow force ( I dont know how) him to not accept any irregularities or corruption at the lower level ( at least this will improve things for normal people).
I agree, election process needs to be changed. Even if election office makes a rule for minimum qualification to be masters, these corrupt politician will get master/phd whatever within months from any university using their influence. How about a live T.V. show to ask them 20-50 questions regarding their policies n stuff. It can be make mandatory so that they can not refuse to appear. We serious need debate s ( for laws, policies) with the right people (not just political people) and these debated needed to air (transperan
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 07:27 AM Permalink
I am looking at(After Manmohan Singh) Sachin Piolet, Omar Abdullah, Scindia, Rahul Gandhi and the likes.
RE:RE:RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by awnish gupta on Aug 08, 2008 07:46 AM Permalink
These might be good people but I do not know them personally. I could not even find a whole lot about these people (other than Manmohan Singh). They need to provide a better statements/opinions for all the MPs (atleast) for general public to see. I do not know where they stand. They are young does not means they are right. It is a funny thing but I do not know the whole history of nehru family (not that I need to know but as they are the most famous family I would expect it to find over internet) jawahar lal nehru to indira gandhi ( why she bacome gandhi from nehru ? Her husband was Christan or Muslim).. anyways may be I did not try to find more deeply as I was interested.
I agree that manmohan singh is a good person and a visionary but the whole N-deal issue was so confusing. At one end most of the parties say they do not know about the agreement (because of confidential papers) but somehow Amar Singh (I think he is a clown and opportunistic)claims that he has read all the documents and agree and thats why supporting the government. And then this money transfer for votes.. anyways
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 07:54 AM Permalink
From your posts, I gather that you moved to US a long time back and are not upto date on Indian issues but want to do something for India.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by awnish gupta on Aug 08, 2008 08:10 AM Permalink
yes. I live in US and I am finishing up my PhD in Physics. I have moved here 6 years back. Last I visited India in 2005. I do not see any hope of going back to india in near future as I couldn't find any job which can utilize my expertise and it does not mean that I do not want to come back. I might not be entirely up to date with the problems but some basic problems still remain the same. And yes, I wished I could contribute somehow.
RE:RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 08:34 AM Permalink
You are lot younger than I thought.
You can get a job in India but salary will be a lot less than what you could make there. Since you cannot contemplate moving now, I suggest you get married, have family and then plan to do something for India at a leter stage.
DO NOT SEND MONEY TO ANY ORGANIZATION UNLESS YOU HAVE CHECKED IT YOURSELF. If you still want to do something get in touch with GOPIO, a global Indian organization.
RE:RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 07:16 AM Permalink
Electronic Media is the biggest driving force in chnaging the Indian mindset. Some channels are sensational but it does expose some of the working process of the machinery. In the last ten years I have been living here, I have seen changes in some of the people in wanting their elected officials to show what they have done for the area. And as new and younger generation is entering politics, things will start to happen.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by awnish gupta on Aug 08, 2008 07:34 AM Permalink
I appreciate your optimism. I am not a pessimist but I feel better if I can help improving things faster. Glad to here that things are improving and people are questioning the elected MPs. I saw some statistics ( I do not remember where, but if you will insist to know, I will try to search) that around 200 MPs in parliament are the once who have criminal cases against them while the number was low 10 years back. To get a ticket one needs a lot of connections and a lot of money may be criminals got it both. Anyhow..
My concern was: many people want to contribute and they can contribute (at least in their area of expertise) but do not know any right channels to do so. If they all will join hands they will find a solution and be heard and feel good at their hearts. I wish more people like you and me join hands collectively to improve things faster.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by True Indian on Aug 08, 2008 06:22 AM Permalink
I am not trying to discourage you, but 90% of the people who post here are arm-chair Indians who can only hide behind the curtain that the virtual world provides and spew mindless drivel and hatred.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by awnish gupta on Aug 08, 2008 06:29 AM Permalink
OK ! I understand your view but I have seen very intellectual discussions as well in rediff forums. I thought, many people think the way I think meaning they want to help but do not know how ? Thanks for your comment.
RE:RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by awnish gupta on Aug 08, 2008 06:33 AM Permalink
by the way a $100 fee will grantee that these 90% people do not start hatred in the website. Trust me 10% people with constructive thinking will make a difference.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by Santosh Gairola on Aug 08, 2008 07:01 AM Permalink
hahahaha ......... see who is talking? someone "True Indian" hiding behind a fake identity is challenging someone "awanish gupta", who is not hiding. interesting! :)
RE:RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by awnish gupta on Aug 08, 2008 07:12 AM Permalink
Message from you (Santosh Gairola) is not constructive and you know it. Is name so important to you ? I agree he used a fake name but his message was constructive showing the flaws in the idea. In my opinion, you should have criticize him but should have given your views on the topic as well.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by AK on Aug 08, 2008 07:11 AM Permalink
True Indian is correct as it is normal and only 5-10% people are doers and the rest are followers. Mr. Ashwani Gupta gave a proper reply, your comment is unwarranted in a healthy discussion.
RE:How come NRIs have solution to problems in india but can not do anything
by Suchi on Aug 08, 2008 10:30 PM Permalink
Great to hear someone who thinks exactly like me. So many problems just like any other country. But with simple soulutions. All it needs is initiative. We need to help ourselves as noone can help us better than ourselves. As we understand our culture perfectly. Not a foreign NGO with hidden agendas imposing their solutions, although I admit they do good work. Many countries have solved peoblems that we currently face and we need to tailor solutions to our context. I hope people stop being negative about things. Derogatory remarks about other peoples personal opinions are no help. We need to be tolerant about others opinions as it doesnt mean that they are wrong if they dont agree with us. They are just different. I hope there is an oppurtunity for people to be positive and support people trying to give something back. And never let go of hope. I applaud your initiative. The question to all is are we ready to help ourselves? By the way how many positive replies have you got. Count me in.
