Main problem of the country is not electricity, but high population, high corruption, consumerism, farmers' suicide and galloping inflation. Sonia & MMS hurried for the n deal only to divert peoples' attention from real problems. Following measures r required for taming galloping inflation.
1. Stop forward trading in essential items. Big traders hoard lot of goods to artificailly increase prices. Left had been demanding this for a long time.
2. Increase taxes drastically on sale of cars. Petrolium is to b imported for all the vehicles. Roads all over the country r already getting jammed due to lot of vehicles. These vehicles also create pollution.
3. Reduce taxes on bicycles. Provide separate lane for cycles for safety, as is the case in Japan, Germany, Holland, France etc.
4. Hand / Bullock carts should b allowed in market areas and banned on main roads.
5. Govt should propagate the virtues of simple living through all types of medias.
6. For long term solution, implement one child norm forcefully, as is being doen in China since 1979. We've only 2.4% of world's land but already hv 16% of its population, which is still increasing @1.6%, compared to 0.6% of China. One child norm will not reduce population, it will only reduce rate of growth of population.
7. Levy tax on agricultural income of rich farmers. Many politicians and industrialists save misuse this facility.
RE:Real problems & their solution
by Girish Rao on Aug 04, 2008 07:39 PM Permalink
India already follows the slab income tax where the high earners pay the highest tax. Simple living is good in theory and at a personal level, but from a economic stand point, if people do not spend economic growth slows down. So encourage people to spend wisely. We already pay very high taxes on cars compared to rest of the world. India is a high taxation country except for maybe some nordic countries , canada, germany etc.
RE:Real problems & their solution
by Ram Sharma on Aug 04, 2008 09:28 PM Permalink
Yes slab income tax is there, but taxes hv been lowered a lot for the rich.
Simple living is not only good in theory but also in practice. It is well known that lot of materialstic development hs taken place in develoed world, but people's happiness has not increased. What is important is happiness and not GDP growth, which is causing global warming, deforestation, pollution etc.
Taxes on cars should b increased to reduce increase in polution and encourag people to adopt cycling or motor cycle.
RE:Real problems & their solution
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 08:09 PM Permalink
I agree with all the above. But to these I will add:
10. Increase investments in primary and secondar education by 500-1000%. I am not joking -- the percentage of our GDP that the government spends on primary education is very low compared to other countries. This would involve raising teachers salaries considerably. The NCERT said yesterday that nonone wants to be a teacher these days.
11. Increase investment in public health. We should shift the emphasis from training doctors who then refuse to leave urban areas, to training a much larger number of publich health workers with roots in rural areas, who can deliver basic services including some requiring basic surgical skills.
The article is showing a very rosy picture. We r not sure how costly the electricity will b due to high price of plant equipment & uranium that will b charged by the suppliers. Remember Enron? It only benefitted some corrupt political leaders. The losers were Indian people through Indian Financial Institutes, who were forced to pay to the equipment suppliers from US.
If it was so good, why majority of power is not produced by nuclear energy in developed countries, as it is clean and environment friendly reducing global warming?
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 07:19 PM Permalink
The article doesn't just paint a rosy picture. It also denigrates institutions that have shaped and continues to shape life in India. He says that the postman has become irrelevant. Say that to the migrant labourer who sends home post-cards and money orders or to millions like me who depend on post-office investment scheme income. In fact, every application that I sent during my student days, every admit card for every exam that I took, every important document that I mailed or received, were delivered on time by these same postmen. This probably is true of all Indians of my generation. The interviewee of this article (and people like him) seem to have no connection to India at all -- they are living in a fantasy world where India is a superpower, bullet trains ply between Chennai and Mumbai, and benevolent America is our fairy godmather.
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Girish Rao on Aug 04, 2008 07:42 PM Permalink
come on when was the last time you sent a post. And the poor labourer sends post card because he has no choice. Once he becomes slightly affluent he too will start sending in couriers. As for bullet trains that is for the future and I would like to ask why not ? All round inclusive Growth is the only way to reduce poverty. Not subsidy and hand-outs.
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 08:02 PM Permalink
I regularly use the postal service to mail letters. I doubt that couriers deliver letters outside the urban centers in the rural heartlands where most people live. To even imagine labourers using courier service takes considerable effort on my part. I think that urban India is getting completely disconnected from the "real India". Its reflected in the growth of the "walled communities" growing in places like Noida, that a foreign newspaper (The Washington Post) commented on recently. The truth will hit hard in the next elections.
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Girish Rao on Aug 04, 2008 08:13 PM Permalink
that means you are out of date. People use post-office only when they are forced to or have no option. As for washington post well they can write whatever they want to. People are migrating all the time to urban centers. In 1947 70 percent of people lived in villages now the percentage is around 55 and is decelarating fast. It is not hard to imagine that in the future majority of people will be living in cities and in that cases postal service will surely be dead. I know it is in-thing to somehow romanticize poor and say India is under-achieving. But all developments take time and some help from outsiders, all countries have been through it including US.
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Girish Rao on Aug 04, 2008 08:32 PM Permalink
what is your point ? looks like you are against nuclear deal. And most probably the people in all those developed countries use letters because the service is reliable. In India no government service works. And dont worry people in India are easily exploitable and give their vote for as little as 100 Rs.
RE:RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Girish Rao on Aug 04, 2008 08:33 PM Permalink
what is your point ? looks like you are against nuclear deal. And most probably the people in all those developed countries use letters because the service is reliable. In India no government service works. And dont worry people in India are easily exploitable and give their vote for as little as 100 Rs.
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 09:18 PM Permalink
"And dont worry people in India are easily exploitable and give their vote for as little as 100 Rs."
Not true. Just ask Atal Behari whether he got his "aur ek bari".
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by pjothilingam on Aug 04, 2008 09:31 PM Permalink
The entire country was divided on the nuclear deal issue.Majority of MPs opposed the deal on earlier occasions.Even just a few weeks before the trust vote, it appeared certain that the govt would fall.Yet,on the day of the trust vote,things changed.How?Enough has been talked of money power doing the trick of inducing elected representatives to vote against their party's whip,or,simply abstain from voting.In this scenario,where do we stand as a democracy?The economic reforms make rich people richer,and the poor,poorer.The nuke deal and consequent opening of our economy to outside forces,will certainly enrich the wealthy beyond one's imagination.If votes of elected representatives can be manipulated with money power, then anything is possible in the political and economic field.The British conquered india through their superior arms and strategy.But the Americans are achieving the same,without firing a shot, but through money power.If we had achieved independance the way the Vietnamese had done,perhaps we would cherish it better.
RE:Showing a very rosy picture
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 08:25 PM Permalink
A 2007 report by the state-run National Commission for Enterprises in the Unorganised Sector (NCEUS) found that 77% of Indians, or 836 million people, lived on less than 20 rupees per day (USD 0.50 nominal, USD 2.0 in PPP), with most working in "informal labour sector with no job or social security, living in abject poverty."
If you think that these people will use couriers then your world is different from mine. In fact very few people in the developed countries such as France, Germany use couriers. All letters that I receive from universities in these countries all come through their national postal services.
The rich in India wants to build a cocoon inside which they want to have their own country and rules. Thankfully (for the rich as well as the poor) we are a democracy and the poor will have their say in nine-month.
"He said India is changing and people don't want government, bureaucrats and politicians in their lives. The postman has been made irrelevant after courier companies have come in. Except the army, government should become non-existent in Indians lives ..."
Yes, and we are all rich like him and can afford to send our children to private schools and then college, and afford to go to private hospitals after the government gets out of these too. What world are these people living in ? Do they even realize the conditions under which 90% of their country-men live (650 million have to defecate in the open) when they talk about bullet trains (as if slow trains are the most important problem facing this nation) ? Do they realize that in a propsperous country like France (which they want to emulate) there is absolutely no private participation in education (private schools or colleges are unheard of) and even though there are a few private doctors the government provides health services to most people.
If such people penned the nuclear deal for us, then we are all done for.
RE:What nonsense.
by nasty on Aug 04, 2008 07:36 PM Permalink
In a country like france do you know how efficiently the govt machinery works?.. when u compare it with the laggards we have here only then will we understand why privatisation is important to India... we are a nation of kaamchors and we will remain one... the little development that we have achieved is due to few entrepreneurs who went after their targets in search of profits and in the process brought India to the global arena... privatisation will remain and is the way forward whether you like it or not...
RE:What nonsense.
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 07:50 PM Permalink
I refuse to believe that we are "a nation of kaamchors". I have studied in government institutions in India (IIT) and been to France many times and collaborated extensively with French mathematicians. I can tell you that organizationally from the entrance exam, to teaching classes, placing students etc. the IIT's are at par (or perhaps better) than the best French institutions (Ecole Normale Superior for instance). Of course, their resources are meagre compared to French universities. To a lesser extent the same is true of the postal service, railways etc.
It is very easy to cry out for privatization -- without considering its costs to society. The current trend towards privatization of education is a death knell for the Indian education system. Very soon only rich spoilt kids from urban families would have access to higher education -- and these kids are no good. I know -- I have taught many of these kids.
RE:What nonsense.
by Girish Rao on Aug 04, 2008 08:38 PM Permalink
IITs were given a freehand for all these years due to some really good politicians. But now look what is happening they want reservation their too, the casteist politicians have set their eyes on IIT/IIMs as well and I can easily see IIT/IIMs go down the drain in a few decades due to political interference.
RE:What nonsense.
by nasty on Aug 04, 2008 08:01 PM Permalink
Sir, I understand your point and your angst, I may sound like a die hard supporter of privatisation, but I am not, at least not the health and education sectors... but you are failing to understand the basic point I am driving at, 60 years since independence and there is hardly a handful of govt run companies which can make a mark in global scenario... the lesser spoken about our govt driven healthcare and education the better... power generation is a joke... civic neccessities is a tragedy.. and many more examples... and after all these we still sit and ponder on why privatisation is needed.. dont u think our enterpreneurs are just tapping on our govts incapability...
RE:What nonsense.
by Jagadeesan R on Aug 04, 2008 08:47 PM Permalink
Agreed. But the same percentage of ppl has been defecating in the open since 1965, So why do want to stop private enterprise ? How many Garibi hatao campaigns happened ? What happened in this country between 1965 and 1991 - Did anything productive happen ? What did 44 years of extreme socialism bring us ? We are still struggling to progress because of those years and even now, your stupid command and control Soviet mindset persists..And the USSR is long dead and buried.
Why dont you ppl stop romanticising extreme marxist/socialist/communist ideologies from your AC room ? You remind me of Rahul Gandhi for whom Socialism is a hobby and nothing more. He will visit Vidharbha one day, next day he will go to IPL match.Ha !! Live in a glass house, throw stones at other...So basically you are saying, """I will make tons of money and have a good life, but I will give extreme socialism fundas to ppl who are trying to improve their standard of living and knock them down, Yes Sir". Morons like you and Rahul Gandhi will always keep this country down.
There probably has been more progress in poverty reduction since 1991 than from any garibi hatao campaign before that. This country has gone forward more in the last 17 years than in the 100 years before that, make no mistake about that.
Capitalism in extreme is also bad, But that doesnt mean that you cling to the same old crap ideologies of the past.
Make proper comparisons - France is about the size of Karnataka with probabl
RE:What nonsense.
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 09:14 PM Permalink
I am no Rahul Gandhi and I have no air-conditioners.
We did not have 44 years of "extreme socialism". In fact European capitalist countries (such as France, Germany etc.) were far more socialist than we ever were -- free govt. education, free health services, nationalized banks etc. I also do not have a problem with private enterprise -- provided they are regulated and taxed properly and they do not get to dictate the agenda of the government. Finally, it is absolutely not clear from the data that the RATE of poverty reduction has gone up during the "reform" era. What IS absolutely clear though is that the income inequalities and the gap between the rich and the poor has increased enormously, and we will all pay for this.
RE:What nonsense.
by nimit patel on Aug 04, 2008 06:55 PM Permalink
no friend they dont know all this they are interested in amoiunt which they will get from construction company from USA and from other raw material purchase...
still supporter dont know when they will finishe nuclear station construction... we know in india even a 100 km road complete takes 1 yr... narmada dam get 35 yrs to complete.. all the govt power station get 3 times then what planed.. budget increased by more then 5-6 times in every govt project... even if they gave workd to pvt companies...
because late penalty is jsut on paper.. misnister and burocrate get few lack or crore rs and they seat quite...
theya re talking like we are rich country and we will finish work on time light.. but theya re forgotting in india we are not a single project finished in time line...
china can make 3 gorgeous dam in 7 year.. but sardar sarovar is 7 times smaller then that which takes 35 yrs to build...
billions of rs will earn by corporate and construction comapnies.. the day govt survive stock market jumped because cement steel and construction company will get order.. they dont know benifit to country...
they jsut know two thing bribe the govt take order earn money and make profit...
thats why i am also against n deal.. because i know indian govt dont have guts to work out project in time and successfully...
If the country is facing a severe power shortage, then at least in the immediate step why isn't the government speaking of conservation. If there was a food shortage we would surely go for food rationing. Why not for electric power ? The government should strictly limit the electric usage of each family (of say four) to the following:
Two light bulbs (40W or lower or fluroscent tubes) 1-2 fans 1 tv 1 small fridge (40cc say) 1 computer. What more does one need ? When we were going up, many times we studied under candle light and kerosene lamps, and I suspect we learnt more then than students do today studying with high powered electric lights on and god forbid even air-conditioners !!!
I also see (even here in Giridih) all these new fangled malls wasting a lot of electricity with dazzling lights for no purpose. We should ban such excesses right away. With proper conservation we can probably cut down the growth in demand by a whole lot.
RE:Why not ration electricity.
by Ram Sharma on Aug 04, 2008 07:36 PM Permalink
U r right. Conservation is required. Why all banks r now a days air conditioned, wasting lot of energy?
RE:Why not ration electricity.
by nasty on Aug 04, 2008 07:39 PM Permalink
Two light bulbs (40W or lower or fluroscent tubes) 1-2 fans 1 tv 1 small fridge (40cc say) 1 computer..... actually we dont need these too... why dont we directly go back to candle light days... for fans we can use the good old manual pankha... and for fridge we can use matka...
RE:Why not ration electricity.
by Jagadis Bose on Aug 04, 2008 08:35 PM Permalink
you may mock me as much as you like -- but I am sure that you know that these two light bulbs, one fridge etc... that I listed amounts to an unbelievable amount of luxury for 90% of your fellow Indians, and honestly I don't see given the power shortage scenario why one would want more ?
India would require 500-600 thousand MW of power by 2030 up from 132,110 at present. Thus nuclear power is the only way forward for India. Energy needs of India are increasing exponentially and only nuclear power is the way forward. Increased price of oil and gas internationally, issues of climate change associated with coal as well as the breakdown of consensus on big dams, India needs Nuclear Energy. India generates 132,110 lakh MW of power annually. Of this, 64.7 per cent is generated from thermal power, 26.2 per cent is generated through hydro electric power, 5.9 per cent is from renewable power sources and only 3.1 per cent through nuclear power.Nuclear power would contribute 10 per cent of the country's energy needs by the year 2022 and 26 per cent of the needs by the year 2052. Share of nuclear power in world wide energy production was one per cent in 1960 and between 1960 to 1986, it rose to 16 per cent of world's energy production. The share has remained constant since then.There are 439 nuclear power reactors operating around the world and the US accounts for 104 of these reactors followed by France at 59, Japan at 55, Russian Federation 31 and Republic of Korea 20. Out of the 35 new nuclear power plants under construction in the world, Asia accounts for 24 of these. While China is building six new nuclear power plants to get 5,222 MW power for its grid, India too is building six such plants which would add 2910 MW of to its grid.
RE:India would require 500-600 thousand MW of power by 2030
by nimit patel on Aug 04, 2008 07:05 PM Permalink
u are right with ur data,, but do u know one thing.. with one lack rs pv penal u will get 4 unit of electricity even in raine day for next 10 yrs..
do u agree there is around 10 cr houses which are using 4 unit a day. do u agree that means at least 40 cr unit or say40,000 mw electricity we can get from PV penals??? investment amount forget it because it will be surely lower then nuclear staiton..
1.3 lack unit total as per today and 40k is around 23% right...
u can go for wind energy, u can make a rule for corporate to complusory use 50% of their admin building light from PV penals??
u can make it na 20% or say 26000 MW yearly going in corporate and govt admin building that also u can get from PV penals...
so mr there is much more other sources.. only one accident in nuclear station will finish one state.. USA and Europe had good maintainance management.. are u trust on same for india??
open yr mind.. USA is shutting down day by day their n plant... because waste management from n plant is very expensive activity who will do it..??
its simple to tell 500-600 MW requirement.. difficult to play practically.. so u should also think about diffrent way which our govt dont...
do they make tax free on bettery operated vehicle... and their accessories??? no .. why???
so small policy decision can save india not big,..
RE:N Deal
by Ram Sharma on Aug 04, 2008 07:07 PM Permalink
A common man wants electricity at an affordable price. Remember Enron? It only benefitted some corrupt political leaders. The losers were Indian people through Indian Financial Institutes, who were forced to pay to the equipment suppliers from US.
If it was so good, why majority of power is not produced by nuclear energy in developed countries, as it is clean and environment friendly reducing global warming?
RE:Indians always are two generations behind the world
by Shiv Kumar Sehgal on Aug 03, 2008 01:06 PM Permalink
Kris,
The topic you have read was written in 2000 when Germany's ruling party decided to exit Nuclear power. However then they had thought renewables will be able to take it's place but that has not happened. Also the price of oil then was $20 and they import a lot of gas from Russia. Now the opposition to Nuclear is dwindling now even in Germany. They have started realizing they can not get away from Nuclear that easily. Link- telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1556830/Germany-to-stay-nuclear-in-Merkel-U-turn.html
Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, is preparing to perform a major U-turn by scrapping plans to abandon nuclear power.
From the link: The move would bring Berlin into line with many of its European neighbours, who are investing heavily in new and existing sources of atomic energy, but puts Mrs Merkel on a collision course with the country's powerful green lobby and her coalition partners.
RE:Indians always are two generations behind the world
by Indian Guy on Aug 03, 2008 12:32 AM Permalink
Mr may be energy might not be that great but we are getting friendly with the biggest super power and are being recognized as a great nation. I would say 100$$ billion is not a great price. Mind it America is a great nation and it would be good to have friends like US in the longer run. Manmohan Singh is a visionary and have full faith in him. What ever he stands for would definitely be great for our nation. In this dangerous world it would be worth while to be friends with US - a nation where they treat Indians with love and respect.
RE:RE:Indians always are two generations behind the world
by Ram Sharma on Aug 04, 2008 07:09 PM Permalink
US is not friendly to any developing country, except for its own use. Once upon a time, Saddam & Osama were also great friends of US. What USA did to them?
This deal is considered as 2nd economic liberisation initiated by Dr Manmohan Singh in 2008 .The 1st one was in 1991 initiated by the same person as FM under able leadership of late PM P.V.narsimha rao .In 1991 the same left parties with other janta dal played against and now getting the fruit after 17 years .In 2008 same Leftist along with Bjp work against the deal but failed ,but but but they will get the fruit after 10 years again when entire India will be illuminated right from 7 lakh village to 500 town and cities with abundant of electricity .When France started nuclear power in 1971 they had only 2% uses of nuclear power but they now they uses 65% of their energy from nuclear power .So it took 38 years for them to achieve the target .India will start now and will acheive 40 % of nuclear energy in 2050 only .We must understand that by 2050 entire fossil fuel will be vanished from the earth so nuclear ,solar ,bio ,wind energy will be bone of contention .Dr manmohan has seen the vision because he is not a politician but a visionary for India
RE:Nuclear Deal and future source of energy
by Kris on Aug 03, 2008 12:00 AM Permalink
Get off your chillum friend. Your post is nothing but a fantasy.
RE:Nuclear Deal and future source of energy
by abboral boral on Aug 03, 2008 12:37 PM Permalink
Was 1991 liberisation a fantasy my dear friend .What India has acheived after 17 years of liberisation ,just see 1.In 1991 our steel production was only 12 million tons a year that too by PSU and Govt sector only and that too after 60 years of closed economy ,Q economy and economy of beurocracy .And now in 2008 our steel productions are 45 million tons by PVT and PSU .TISCO a private player of last 100 years could acheived land mark M&A of CORUS Steel co ,former British Steel co and made 24 million ton a year that too 100 years of golami by British and Indian closed golami economy .Was it possible with out liberisation 2. What a telephone revoulution ?You can talk with just Rs 1 to anywhere in India 3. Was it possible now a days you are writing so easily in internet with out liberisation 4. France , Japan are running fastest train in the world of 350 km per hr. 5. all our heavy Industries are becoming sick due to no electricity availavle 6. Corruption which was all most 100% upto 1991 ,Now it has been reduced to only 55% . 7. All ready most of states are reeling under shortage of power . 8. How you will acheive 10 % GDP growth with out power 9. Do you want to live in reality of no power , no Industries, no food ,with out power ?where our fantasy will be a reality with in 10 years with this nuclear power deal .The countries who have shut their reactor ,it is due to shortage of uranium only and there is no agreement with this countries with NSG .Think properly
RE:Nuclear Deal and future source of energy
by shivkumar on Aug 04, 2008 06:10 PM Permalink
Some people are die hard cynics. They do not want to be convinced by any sorts of argument even if the majority are for something they distrust or disbelieve. They have fixated ideas and to accept other's views is horrendous for them. The Left party is such a party and there are more in the opposition who just want to oppose for the sake of opposing anything. We should learn a lesson or two from the West. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton went around the USA campaigning but when Hillary started to lose, she at once accepted it and extended full support to Obama's ideas. In the past also we have seen that the defeated party leaders swear to stand by their victorious leaders. But here, we have leaders who will shout foul after they get defeated and go on opposing every move of the ruling party. They will be always on the look out to topple the government. Never they have any agreement with the ruling party in any respect. We can see from the debates or talk shows in television channels how these political leaders always accuse the other of mismanagement of anything from economy to terrorism. No one agrees on any point and the points of debate is left unresolved.
RE:Nuclear Deal and future source of energy
by Srikanth on Aug 04, 2008 06:09 PM Permalink
In both the cases, MMS has done the same dealing with JMM and other parties. Hats off MMS.
This statement says all about future of nuclear energy in India. I think currently, the fastest train between Chennai and Mumbai takes 20 hours. To travel between Chennai and Mumbai in lesser time, you need good track first. If you have good track and no n-clear power, you can still reduce the travel time. But if you have n-clear power and the track is same, you still need 20 hours. So when feel we need n-clear power, but the govt has set the priority wrong. Govt is trying to n-power the train before upgrading the track.
RE:Bullet Trains powered by nuclear energy travelling between Chennai and Mumbai in just four hours
by rajkiran on Aug 02, 2008 07:41 PM Permalink
Dont fall for such propoganda statements. Many statements in the article are scientifically and factually wrong.
Its the typical work of marketing & sales fellows...and ppl fall for it. Though I support n-deal, but very cautious abt it -- it has some important holes.
RE:Bullet Trains powered by nuclear energy travelling between Chennai and Mumbai in just four hours
by subal chakraborti on Aug 04, 2008 06:21 PM Permalink
thanks,contributing thought process
immediately we will get uranium for our 12 atomic power plants to produce electricity. this will some extend will reduce the shortfall.
in long terms benefit, the stock of oil is going down drastically in coming years and the cost of oil will go up to any extend likewise coal and gas. at that time the nuclear energy will be more profitable. in the meantime the price of fossil fuels will also go through the roof.
