General VIj;you have nicely raised very sensetive issue at right time before it becomes too late. I suggest.there must be compulsory militery service of 1-2 years for each youngster so that they understand / feel the hardship faced by forces.these babus must be given border duties of 2-3 years.
RE:Gen VIJ
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 02:52 PM Permalink
Mant ExOfficials of Indian Army are MP and MLA and even Ministers!Their contrubution is in many field!For Example most of the MISS INDIA WINNERS ARE DAUGHTERS OF INDIAN ARMY OFFICARS!THIER CONTRIBUTION IS GOOD!Do not forget this contribution too!
RE:Gen VIJ
by Satya on Apr 30, 2008 06:41 PM Permalink
Yes, Army Service must be made compulsory, then only will the 'babus' and politicians,including commies know the hardship of a solier.
All jawans vote for NDA. Therefore UPA doesnt care for them. Many jawans are posted in places where they cant vote. So for UPA those who dont vote, dont matter.
RE:UPA
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 02:26 PM Permalink
Jawans are voting thorugh postal ballots!Thr results are not declared till the received postal ballots are counted!Do not politiced the issue!Ask all parties to make Military servie Compulsory as it is in America!
The nation will know the value of having a soldier when there is a war! How many of them are even fighting the terrorists even now. For the politicians all they want is mileage and they will go to any extent to get that. The alarming problem in india will be the rising divide between the poor and the rich. The money the politicians have with them is more than enough to pay of debt.
RE:doesn't know the value
by Satya on Apr 30, 2008 06:50 PM Permalink
See how the corrupt T.R.Balu is fooling the whole nation by justifying his nepotism, with tacit support from the equally corrupt Karuna.They would even say this is for 'social justice'!The spineless PM and scheming super PM Sonia will keep quiet to sustain the Govt at any cost.This is the worst Govt India ever had!
It is important to note that first it was tecnocrats( e.g DRDO scientists,Telecom Engrs etc..), IPS and now the army , everyone feels let down. Everyone, but the IAS lobby is complaining cause this PCR is heavily biased towards the IAS who have taken necessary care to see that their interests are well served. It is this IAS lobby( who form the 'steel frame') who has time and again influenced all major policies in India. The 'Sarkar'whether at state or Central is time & again proved helpless against them. We the people need to change this by using help from the judiciary, RTI act ,LokAyukta Act etc.
Respected PM Sir, The feelings conveyed by our Ex. Chief Of The Army Staff is genuine and are valuable to be taken into consideration ASOP. Have any body ever thought the the out going rate of Airmen/Jawans (OR) is so high. The country pays a very high price for their training and upkeep. The only reason is the difference between the pay in the defence services and the outside civil society. The rates of commodities are similar for every one. Can a Jawan/Airman can think of purchasing a two bed room flat in Delhi or any other 'A' class city, can he afford to educate his children in a good public schoo. The answer is simple 'NO' These are some of the simple reason the Jawan/Airman are going out whenever they get chance to go. My humble request to our respected PM is to consider our Ex. Chief's letter at the earliest.
total army budget more then 1 lakh core. average every family in India contribute 4000 rs. more then 25% population has income lesser then one dollar per day. big part of population not sure about 2nd mill in country. 2 defence budget can over come this problem. Do you think it mean for them who is rulling india( India or anyone). Army is protecting our borders. But nation is actually the people living in the india. are we saving the boundry by killing the nation. Think what we are demanding on what cost?
RE:Pay and army
by Red Pascal on Apr 28, 2008 01:59 PM Permalink
So most of the "budget" goes on running expenses- fuel, ammunition, uniforms, supplies and not towards the salaries. The salary componenet is a pittance. Now coming to those "ruling"- the politicians, the police and the IAS,they have a nexus, they protect each other, pay each other ( through corruption and pay commisions) and take care of each other leaving the forces in the lurch and then we have idiots like you asking why the army should be paid more. Sure let China and Pakistan walk all over us and let us see what survives of the "people". If you are so bothered about the people ensure that the money meant for the public is not eaten up by the babus and don't go barking up the wrong tree
RE:Pay and army
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 03:01 PM Permalink
MES the offshoot of miltary is the most corrupt Orgnisation of India!The Jawans to certain extent need good conditions!But one contributution that Army Oficers have made to India is thsi "Most of the RECENT MISS INDIA WINNERS PRIYANKA CHOPRA ,LARA DUTTA ,Sushmits SEN ,NMANPREET BRAR etc THE LIST IS ENDLESS ARE DAUGHTERS OF ARMY OFFICERS !One must not forget this contribution of Army Officers to India!
RE:Pay and army
by sanjeev on Apr 28, 2008 05:12 PM Permalink
Mr Red Pascal; how much u know about army. IF u are an army officer then I think u know more better then me. if not then kindly think what u think is influence of media. corruption in defence is higher then civillian. but yet to explore. army officer making troops to their servant, A officer in peace are cost in lakhs.] and after mazor calculate how much time u will be field area. when u are talking hard life. u are comparing army in danger zone and police in peace. let compare them with equal plate form. police officers are supposted to fight with terrorist with traditional weapons.
RE:RE:RE:Pay and army
by Ayan Bhattacharya on Apr 28, 2008 06:45 PM Permalink
Sanjeev, You seem to know everything about the army? How? And what is your solution ... Reduce their pay even further and give that to you !!!!
RE:RE:Pay and army
by rohit hooda on Apr 29, 2008 02:53 PM Permalink
Not sure about Red Pascal, But I would like to shed light on some of the statements that you have made: 1. "corruption in defence is higher then civillian" I would be really surprised if some study actually even TRIED to compare corruption in politics/IPS or for that matter ANY other govt. branch with the corruption in the combined armed forces. 2. "A officer in peace are cost in lakhs" Ignoring the grammatical errors, did you know that the defense forces are in 2 different modes "in war" or "preparing for war" When the officer is as you call it in peace he goes on exercises (which mean mock war like situations) for around 4-8 months, that is if he is not actually taking a full time course on warfare. If the officer is doing neither then he is facilitating others to achieve those two primary goals. 3. The actual explanation of hard life would take too long but consider this: i) An average jawan spends 12-15 years of his active tenure with out his family. ii) An infantry officer spends roughly 16-22 years of his 30 years of service in Field ares postings. iii) Occupational Mortality rate is the highest amongst ANY other government service, and almost all other occupations. I hope you understand that hard life actually does mean HARD life. 4. Traditional weapons for police officers Police force is not the active agency in CI Ops. But where they do work they have the same small arms as the Indian Army. Regards, Son and Brother of an Army Officer.
Shri Vij sahab, I have highest regard for the Indian Army who have ever served selflessly for the protection of India and Indians including the corrupt politicians who always seem to be looking for an opportunity to trade anything (including nation) for personal wealth and prosperity. Pay commissions!! this is only for sarkari babus who help politicians earn black money through corruption of all kinds. Don't we know this. Sir, what about the unemployed. Does anyone give a hoot to them. No because they are of no use , being outside the inner circle. How can they help chor sarkar earn black money. So nothing for them. So sir, pl. understand you are dealing with a bunch of corrupt persons who will use all rules and arguments to prove themselves not only right but righteous as well.
I dont understand all points but it seems that the army jawans should get compensated better for the dangers they face in areas of combat. They are actually on ground.
Also there is a lot os spending on extra facilities to be provided th the army men, like housing, food etc. But often times the quality is not as good as the money spent, meaning we are spending lots of money for the army but the value is not reaching intended recepient but lost in corruption.
Like everywhere else corruption is eating up resources meant for armed forces too.
Somehow India as a country needs to find out a powerful remedy to rein in corruption and greed or it is going to break this nation from all sides.
RE:RE:All Corrupt
by Red Pascal on Apr 28, 2008 02:01 PM Permalink
Sunny Deol cannot stand in the field without AC for one day, and he will clean the system ? And what is corrup about a Jawan shivering his butt off in Siachen ? Unlike a police constable who eats off the public the avergae army man has no means of corruption available to them !
RE:All Corrupt
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 02:20 PM Permalink
many infact countles cases has been found by Military itself "that drivers of Military vehicles were selling diesel to private parites!Ask Miliatry officails this is one of the known maliase!Why dig for more!All big officials after retirment are good Brokers a la Nanda!Even Kuldeep Nayyar wrote in his book Between The Lines that in IndianOfficials were behaving like Colonials otwards their Jawans in 1962 war and wanted Hot water for Bathing in 1962 war!The Lt Gen Kaul Nehru's clan man came back om pretxt of illness!to Military Hospital during 1962 War !Space is limited here !But do ask the Officials !
RE:RE:All Corrupt
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 02:23 PM Permalink
The most corrupt orgnisation is MES-Military Engineering Services - in India!The minimum percentage commission in MES is the Highest!Ask any Indian Contractor!Let us be practical and emotional !Those who are patriots will fight fo the Nation and quible about monetary issues on street or even net!
RE:IF ARMY WAS VOTE BANK LIKE MUSLIMS THEY WUD BE PAMPERED
by Red Pascal on Apr 28, 2008 02:01 PM Permalink
well the BJP certainly does not cater to the Muslims does it ? So your theory is kind of negated by your won comments
RE:IF ARMY WAS VOTE BANK LIKE MUSLIMS THEY WUD BE PAMPERED
by Ashok Gupta on Apr 28, 2008 01:32 PM Permalink
Make Military duty compulsory for all politicians for 6 months in different postings and then perhaps they will realise and understand. Wars are fought on the battlefield and lives are lost but the wars fought in parliament is a waste of time and energy but decisions there shape the future of our nation- be realistic these soldiers are protecting the nation and should be well rewarded.
RE:IF ARMY WAS VOTE BANK LIKE MUSLIMS THEY WUD BE PAMPERED
by Gomtesh on Apr 28, 2008 02:25 PM Permalink
why only politicians why not compulsory militery service of 1-2 heras for each youngster.
