my dear friends this is a dangerous situation. If anyone of you has ever read the ART OF WAR by Sun Tzu, then u will know..in a situation like this our country is highly vulnerable to an attack..esp by China
There are many who claim that even if the salary is modest, there are perks and subsidies. I am both an IT manager and a person who has seen Army life for several years as a civilian. I have seen my friends army officers disappear and the body mutilated while inIPKF operations.
No amount of subsidy is a compensation for staking ones life in the battle which requires tremendous raw physical courage.
When not in war the army prepares for war which is gruelling and rigourous which no AC cubicled pseudoproffesional is going to do.
Jawans who earn a mere 3000 spending their time in siachen and kargil awake while the rest of the country gets a good sleep. The current generation of indian army officers are the one who joined for the valiance and honor not for the pay. The present generation is unlikely to do that.
A jawan sacrifices his family and his life in the battle, he goofs up a bit, thats the end of his career, demotion, court martial etc.
If a IT guy goofs up he can always spread his/her legs for the highest bidder
Will the top military leadership be bold enough NOT TO ACCEPT the CPC recommendations till their anamolies/grievances are addressed by the babudom/neta logs. This may entail waiting till infinity for the CPC recommnendations to be implemented for Defence Forces, but the wait may be worth the effort. To start with the three Service Chiefs should voluntarily renounce their pay rise till a respectable level of renumeration is accepted and implemented for the jawans and officers.
In India writing logical letters with strong points and with back up facts and in good language is of no use. Most in the Defence forces know Chinese quote that all political power comes from the power of the barrel gun and who has the gun? The injustice to the defence forces is due to its mild and subservient leadership and that is why such things would keep happening. Can any one give a reason for civil officers getting additional pay when they serve in Delhi which is merged in basic pay for pension purposes. Police officers get more pay when they serve in training establishments. The Defence Forces do not get these mainly because it would cause resentment in the Defence Forces as life is easier at training establishments and at Delhi compared to life in the Units. And last but not least what about the mistake in computing the pay done by CDA while implementing the fourth pay commission. This has been upheld by the High Court and the Supreme Court but the Govt has yet to rectify the anomaly. They cant even do this when the financial implication is a few hundred crores. They can write of thousands of crores of loans and hundreds of crores losses due to misdeeds but cant rectify an anomaly which has been upheld by the highest court of the land. Come on General dont be naive. Letters dont matter Logic does not matter. You all have to do something more than a mere letter.
Honourable justice Mr.B N Srikrishna, The waves of protests that are comming from Armed forces as well other civilians in various web sites is a clear indication of intentional injustice done to the Armed forces in your pay commission's report.You stand to an explanation to all this.It is better for you to stand in a terrorist infested area along with your team and get shot.Then only the arm chaired,AC room Neo Managers like your team will come to know what is like serving Armed Forces.
RE:Pay and army by sanjeev on Apr 28, 2008 05:12 PM Mr Red Pascal; how much u know about army. IF u are an army officer then I think u know more better then me. if not then kindly think what u think is influence of media. corruption in defence is higher then civillian. but yet to explore. army officer making troops to their servant, A officer in peace are cost in lakhs.] and after mazor calculate how much time u will be field area. when u are talking hard life. u are comparing army in danger zone and police in peace. let compare them with equal plate form. police officers are supposted to fight with terrorist with traditional weapons.
RE:army and u re address
by rohit hooda on Apr 29, 2008 02:38 PM Permalink
Not sure about Red Pascal, But I would like to shed light on some of the statements that you have made: 1. "corruption in defence is higher then civillian" I would be really surprised if some study actually even TRIED to compare corruption in politics/IPS or for that matter ANY other govt. branch with the corruption in the combined armed forces. 2. "A officer in peace are cost in lakhs" Ignoring the grammatical errors, did you know that the defense forces are in 2 different modes "in war" or "preparing for war" When the officer is as you call it in peace he goes on exercises (which mean mock war like situations) for around 4-8 months, that is if he is not actually taking a full time course on warfare. If the officer is doing neither then he is facilitating others to achieve those two primary goals. 3. The actual explanation of hard life would take too long but consider this: i) An average jawan spends 12-15 years of his active tenure with out his family. ii) An infantry officer spends roughly 16-22 years of his 30 years of service in Field ares postings. iii) Occupational Mortality rate is the highest amongst ANY other government service, and almost all other occupations. I hope you understand that hard life actually does mean HARD life. 4. Traditional weapons for police officers Police force is not the active agency in CI Ops. But where they do work they have the same small arms as the Indian Army. Regards, Son of an Army Officer.
RE:army and u re address
by sanjeev on Apr 29, 2008 03:34 PM Permalink
Gentleman, I am talking about life of officers. and u are talking about troops. if u are realy son of army officer, then let me know, which law give power to officers to treat them as a servant. U know this will be the case of human exploitation, with a punishable crime.
I am also a defence civilian officer, and i know ground reality.
RE:army and u re address
by Rajendra Aggarwala on May 07, 2008 03:06 PM Permalink
A batman is not a servant you blockhead. A batman is a companion, whether in peace or in war, trained to be a personal companion providing personal help and services to support the officer in carrying out his duties. He mends and prepares his dress, and provides all personal services as needed by the officer so that the officers carry out their war related duties. In the peace stations, they are trained to do such duties. Not all officers get a batman. It all depends on the nature of their duties in the field or in peace time. Officers and men sacrifice their lives for each other(mercenaries like you will never understand that); their relationship is of service to each other in their respective duties, not the relation of a servant to a master, as in civil life. There is no parallel in civil services to that unique and noble relationship. Whatever you think you know is a figment of your own distorted values. Most civilians in whatever service including the police are essentially corrupt and shirk even their simple duties of attending office in peace time, and living with their families comfortably. Even then they keep on demanding more pay, serve much longer in their service, go on leave whenever they want to, live with their families, and their lives are rarely in danger. Just go the front line and the anti-terror operations sometimes, and examine your pants on return. Most in civil life only hoodwink their bosses and colleages, extort as much money as they can from the pub
RE:army and u re address
by sanjeev on May 08, 2008 05:07 PM Permalink
I am just asking, is it legal or illegal, if you dont know ask your father. if he is in army. You are right only few officers are allowed for these services. but what about those who are not authorised but still doing so. if CBI came their, you all will be terminated.
RE:RE:army and u re address
by sanjeev on May 08, 2008 05:07 PM Permalink
Dear all, Now a day Indian Army in the habbit of killing their own officers. We can see various suicide in the Army these all are due to unfair rules and regulation for which immediate attention is required to be taken. There are many eg : (a) A few days ago there was a suicide committed by a lady officer named Sushmita. (b) Suicide in IMA is common according to views of Army Officers (c) Corruption by Senior Army officers What is the solution :- Every question have a answer but a appropriate answer deemd fit so Indian Govt must take following immediate actions :- (a) Meida should be closer (b) Jawans also be given appropriate power to avoid unfair rules imposed by Army officers at their own discertion (c) There should be banned of using to jawans as there personnel servant (d) Vehicles should not be allowed for wives of Army officers untill or unless they become ill (e) There must be one rule of set for one office and should not be any discrimenation (f) Persons selected staff for united missions must have equal tenure that to be of 1 year or more and persons going with unit be of atleast 6 months either officer or jawan. Immediate attention by Defence Minister
RE:army and u re address
by monesh bathre on May 04, 2008 02:49 PM Permalink
sitting in an ac room...surfing the net on ur lap....mc donalds pizza huts and kingfidhers....come with me to the frozen mtns in dec....promise ur next gen will freeze under ur ugs....there is no civil defence....either u r the defence or .,...a civilian,...like so many others ...from 1 to so amny crores/./congratulations u r (mis)fortuante enough.god bless..
RE:army and u re address
by sanjeev on May 05, 2008 04:57 PM Permalink
I am not criticizing army, I am just saying. We cannot neglect the contribution of other. No doubt to die for country is very big think. But to live a life for someone else is bigger contribution. U all know the contribution of army, so u are telling so, but u don%u2019t know the contribution of those, who was not high lighted by media. Does u know the life of a person working with explosives, every day he was fighting with life. Does u know the life of a person working with chemical which can genetically modified u. Does u know the man working with radiation, which can leads to cancer. It is not so that they always suffer from that kind of problems. But who fall in that always remains un noticed. Dear friend%u2019s army in final executer. But there is other also, which are living in more miserable life, even when they are the product of India topper institutes and can earn lakhs, which they had left for the country. and they are now living for country. they are facing problems, so that our defense officer will not get problem. Think about this
By releasing the letter to press General has done his Duty!All kudos to him!Let Military service be made compulsory for Indians!One must also under stand that Pakistani intruders incursed in Indian boundry despite posting of Army there!But it was one patriot Cowherd who first reported to Officials about intrusion of the enemy from acroos the borders!Though there was much controversy about Kargil Intrusion!And as can be seen Indians love their country and ready to fight for theoir country!But mostly it is Jawans who ned consideration!Even during recruitment many unneccary gt injured or die!Why waste precious life!as it happened during recruitment at mnaycenters! "Army recruitment turns into free-for-all Prem Pal Singh
Meerut, August 10 Several aspirants to the army were injured in a stampede during a recruitment drive here at the famous Hathi Khana ground. Some of them received serious injuries and fractures in their limbs. They have all been hospitalised. Military officials blamed the district officials for the incident. The district authorities had not made %u2018adequate arrangements%u2019 for the recruitment rally, the army officials claimed. Let Military sevice be made Compulsory !The armu officailas have contributed in m,any areas politics etc!But one area where they have contributed immensly is " That RECENTLY MOST MISS INDIA WERE DAUGHTERS OF ARMY OFFICIALS PRIYANKA CHOPRA ,LARA DUTTA ,SUSHMITA SEN , BARAR LIST IS ENDLESS!tHIS CONTRIBUTION MUST NOT BE IGNORED
It is disgusting to say the least that a General has to bring to the notice of the PM the mess that the Indian Army is being made of and equally disgusting that PM from the last 15 yers are not bothered about the danger facing the country due to shortfall of officers in the Armyleading to serious consequences in time of war.as happended in Kargil. Now we have the added danger of a set politicians favourable to China ruling in Nepal and another bunch waiting to grab power in India. What if India has to fight another war on the Nepal front>?
We hope politicians run the country from the front and not depend on babus? And take immediate steps to correct the serious anomalies in the pay scales which is leading to loss of morale and depletion of already existing shortfall?
RE:The mess that our politicians/babus are making of the Indian Army
by Vijayalakshmi on Apr 30, 2008 06:26 PM Permalink
Demoralization of our Defence Forces can have serious repercussions in case of a war. Therefore the self-seeking politicians of the UPA-Left must be given a rap on their knuckles by the people of India, by rejecting them in all future elections.Only a Nationalist Govt will honour its Defence Forces.Our Army,Air Force and Navy deserve the Best!
Much as one does not want to speak at the sorry state of representation of the Services in the say with the Govt., it is time for the top brass of the Services to express their disgust, in a manner that shall force the Govt to consider the damage the Sixth Pay Commission recommendations are doing to the fibre of the Services.
Forgetting about their narrow self interests & benefits the top 5 % of all the three services must join hands and make it clear that the Govt has to attend to the issues raised. Surely it is not mutiny. But if they didn't do something solid in a reasonable time frame the damage could be irreversible.
RE:Gen Vij's letter to the Hon' Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 02:43 PM Permalink
Those who think that they are doing favours while serving in Army must immediatly leave Army!Let the Military service be made Compulsory as in America!It is Honor to serve in Army and favour granted to persons !But those who think that thy are doing favous to the Nation by being in Army let them leave Army!If any needs good conditions in Army it is the Jawans!As Kuldeep Nayyar wrote in -his book-Between The Lines - The Indian army officers had been bahaving ike Colonial rulers and demanding hot water in War !And Lt. Gen Kaul on the prtext of illness left the battle field and was admitted in Military Hospital !MES the off shoot of the Military wing is known as the most corrupt oegnisation in India!And most High officioals have bright future as Brokers as Nanada clan is doing!One must be practical and not emotional!
RE:RE:Gen Vij's letter to the Hon' Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh
by mahabodhi on Apr 28, 2008 02:48 PM Permalink
Kuldeep Nayyar wote about 1962 war against china!Read his book for an insight of Army Officials !It is Jawans who tyo certain extent are getting raw deal!And their service span is 10 to 15 years!It indian army average age is highest in the World!We need young ang energertic army!Let the Miliatry service be made compulsory fo all Indians as in America!It is true that Army has been contributing to society many ways too!For Example MOST OF THE MISS INDIA IN RECENT PAST ARE DAUGHTERS OF ARMY OFFIVCIALS!Indians must ponder over this achivement of Indain Army Officer contribution too!
RE:Gen Vij's letter to the Hon' Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh
by Satya on Apr 30, 2008 06:37 PM Permalink
Kuldeep Nayyar is a hypocrite commie,who does not care if Defence Forces are demoralized. In every Training, moral instruction also should be imparted in our education system. Then only we can have men and women of character and high moral values.Patriotism should be inculcated in the masses from school days itself. commies are not patriotic. Their loyalty is to Russia, China and Commie leaders.
