I fully agree with Rajeev Srinivasan that the much touted 123-deal does not offer even a fig of energy security to India. All his analysis on various facets of energy security in terms of fuel spectrum, waste elimination, infrastructure creation, etc., are well taken. However, what I find singularly lacking in most of the analyses by many experts and commentators is the total neglect of the need for our own creativity and innovative spirit. Why is it that we must always look to the west for solving our problems, be it energy, food, transport or whatever? Why no one talks of developing our own skill-sets and R&D infrastructure to tackle our own problems? Do all these experts really believe that India can become an economic super-power by going round the world signing such third-rate deals as the 123-deal and the likes of it to follow with these wasteful, greedy and intellectually stunted people sitting in govt? Don't we have the capability of developing our own expertise in thorium conversion and show to the world that environmentally friendly nuke technology is possible and that too only by India? As Rajeev correctly points out, US has not built a single nuke reactor since 1979 and yet in the 123-deal draft it assigns itself as the "giver" of technology and designates India -which has more advanced spent fuel reprocessing tech, Faster Breeder tech and even experimental thorium converter tech- as the "receiver" of "advanced civil nuke technology"? Is it not a laughable thing?
but why not sign it when it really does no harm? The issue raised again n again against the deal is that of TESTING. What will happen if we test? The US and others will stop supplies? Yes, most certainly. But is it not better to have those supplies at least until we test unlike now when we get no supply at all whether we test or not?! What else can the others do? Impose sanctions? Do you think they won't do that if we test without signing the deal? Yes they most certainly will!!
The other issue raised, as is also done in this article is USs lack of expertise in civil nuclear tech since it hasnt had a new reactor in many decades and the resultant danger to us if we buy from the US. WHERE THE HELL IN THE DEAL IS IT SAID THAT WE CAN ONLY BUY FROM THE US???
And the third issue raised is that it won't solve all our energy problems. Yes true! but at least part of it will be solved right?! And this deal doesnt bring us only uranium but also many dual use tech like advanced supercomputers which can be used in other areas like Space research and also for solar power research the need for which is rightly pointed out by this article itself!
So if a deal benefits us in a lot more ways than it restricts us (with the same restrictions which are very much present even without the deal) why such mindless hostility against it? Please some make me understand!
RE:Ok this deal may not buy the world for us BUT...
by satyarthi on Apr 24, 2008 03:54 PM Permalink
@kaka The points aised by you are relvant, indicating the complexity of the deal.
RE:Ok this deal may not buy the world for us BUT...
by Sincere Citizen on Apr 24, 2008 03:06 PM Permalink
We dont need that technology thats why we dont need the deal forget what else it says etc. And there is nothing against US in rejecting it.
I would gladly accept US giving some other cleaner source like Solar or wind power tech deal.
Oh and import of nuclear fuel also opens doors for corruption at govt. level. Ever heard of defence deals kickbacks.
Except to ReCharge the Bankrupt Western Economies especially of USA, This Indo-US Nuclear Deal is of NO USE.
More over, It is Detrimental to the Sovereignity of India in Indirect Terms thru the Agreement.
The Fact that 22 Indian Nuclear Facilities of India must be kept under international safegaurds(from whom ?) While All other Countries together, till date have put only 16 under International Inspections, IS PROOF of Sell Out of India By US Fed Bonds Agent- MMS and Italian KGB SPY Maino.
Indian Sovereignity is stake with this Agreement.
First Reject It.
One Capitalism Dies - it will in a couple of years - Global Warming also will suddenly drop. Then, Just As since a decade We find that Winters are getting Hotter, We will find all of a Sudden that Summers get Cooler.
Then, There won't be any need for Electrical Power AND also We Will have plenty of proper Rainfall.
Key is to Demolish the Capitalist West And the Power of the Western Fake Currency Standard of Dollar/Euro.
India must learn to live with whats available within India. India is blessed with the Greatest Resource called FOOD unlike the Rest of the World.
RE:No N Deal
by kaka on Apr 24, 2008 05:54 PM Permalink
Capitalism will die? Despite the most advanced nations today being capitalists and also former commies slowly embracing it too?
Do You Know Reckless Labours (Always dreaming to be IAS officers or Politicians) Are spoiling, 30% of the Food Produced, in harvesting ???
A lot of Arable Land is being left waste due to Lack of availability of WILLing Agricultural labourers.
Similarly, A huge percentage of Land is left unused due to skyrocketting labour costs of Rs.200 per day.
Fact is Labourers are given schemes like Employment Gaurantee Scheme While Farmers don't find people work for them.
It is well know fact that Huge number of Labourers are taking those Huge sums as Labour And drinking liquor and sleeping for a Couple of Days without working. And the 3 day cycle goes.
The Govt has increased the Liquor shops many folds. Understand! who is behind the Emp Gaurantee Schemes And Raise in Labour costs in Agriculture?
CAN MMS bring some reforms in this Sector ??
Else, FORGET ELECTRIC POWER, We will STARVE TO DEATH before we lose our sovereignity.
RE:No N Deal
by Sincere Citizen on Apr 24, 2008 03:03 PM Permalink
Capitalism will not die, its current aggressive version which keeps only personal success and financial returns as goals will die.
Today more and more companies have realised that financial gains are not the only thing. Its cost to the society , environment also has to be considered and of course other factors like cost to nation threat perception etc
RE:RE:RE:No N Deal
by Sincere Citizen on Apr 24, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
Yes and Isma saying Capitalism will not die. There will always be people/companies looking out to gain something from their money and intelligence.
Nothing wrong with that what is wrong is that they try to get more then what they give out.
So greed will and should die but not capitalism per say.
Greed will not Die. Haven't you seen any film atleast ? if not any real life experience ??
BAD people never change. The World never stop to get ruined. Everything Decays.
Thus, People instead of Changing the Wills of People Change the System they live in And make certain characters which harm them as Evil. Mind It, Evil Marks Good as Harmful character.
So, It is what is called Capitalism which will die or be killed. But People will respect Capital.
RE:No N Deal
by Sharad on Apr 24, 2008 02:59 PM Permalink
Propaganda takes you nowhere. People can easily see thru propaganda and they reject them. Don't waste your time. Be objective in your analysis.
just presenting one side of the picture without proper context can be very misleading to ordinary people. and that too from such a learned individual it is most unfortunate.no wonder thanks to such leg pullings our country is not progressing.
Let us not look too far into the future with all kinds of complex analysis and scenarios. Right now, our requirement is access to complex technology and a supply of material to produce nuclear energy. LET US NOT LOOK AT THE LONG TERM, BECAUSE IN THE LONG TERM WE ALL CEASE TO EXIST.
Situations always change. Re-negotiations always take place. If at a later date, we need to CANCEL THE DEAL, we will do it then. USA constantly re-negotiates. N Korea reneged on its deal. USA is now re-negotiating on that. Iran reneged on its deal, nobody is able to do anything about.
OUR IMMEDIATE NEED IS TECHNOLOGY and MATERIAL. Let's go with it and India will become stronger and be in a better position to deal with situation when it demands.
RE:No deal is sacrosanct, take it now and re-negotiate it when it matters
by Sincere Citizen on Apr 24, 2008 03:01 PM Permalink
Wrong goal and analysis. Our requirement is more clean power and that should not entail complex technology that is hazardous.
First get your goals right : goals is more clean power and cheap if possible.
And nuclear is not the option even with this deal we wont go beyond 7% of our total power requirement forget other stuff.
RE:No deal is sacrosanct, take it now and re-negotiate it when it matters
by TheOneAndOnly on Apr 24, 2008 03:17 PM Permalink
Yes! Indian Companies are planning to build FABs in India. That will make solar power cheap.
A simple Rs.20000 Crore Scheme to Re-Dig the Encroached Village Tanks and Lakes Can save HUGE Amount of Electrical Power Reqd in Agriculture. It will also save Drinking water for our Huge population.
RE:No deal is sacrosanct, take it now and re-negotiate it when it matters
by Sharad on Apr 24, 2008 03:16 PM Permalink
My goal is 7% power (even if I go by your argument). What prevents us getting beyond the 7%? If we have the technology, we need the raw material. We will be able to better work with the limited NSG, if we are inside it, than if we are outside. We need engagement, not isolation.
Immediate need is not CLEAN POWER, but POWER. Clean can be achieved by perfecting technology. I would have SOME POWER than waiting endlessly for NO POWER.
India as now is being considwered a Great Industrial Nation !But does it has any Technology for what ever neccessary purposes like Aviation ,Railways , Nuclear Technology etc. !The answer is big No!In aviation we do not produce Planes or even its spares even for Defence!We are totally dependant on Imports!Consider RAILWAYS !Can we run our Raolways on Indigenous spares !The answer is big No!Please note that India does not Manufacture BEARINGS REQUIRED FOR RAILWAYS WAGONS , BOGIES ETC .!The Railway authorities will comfirm this!If today the Foreigners stop supplying the BEARINGS FOR RAILWAYS(SKF SWEDEN) THEN RAILWAYS WILL COME TO GRINDING HALT WITH IN MONTH!Even the Wagon Wheels are Imported from ROMANIA!and these are essential services!We import all luxory products!Even if some company says that "India ka dil India ka AC" But under it is Chinese made prouct mostly!India lags behind in Mettulrgy and modern Technolgy by 100 years to Devloped World!India Govt. past ,present even Nehru failed to devlop Indegenous Technology !What All National Labortories are doing-NPL etc. ? Nothing !Why?Why no one raises this basic question!Because we totally dependant on Impot of technology and products for even essential services WE KOW-TOW TO WESTERN COUNTRIES FOR ESSENTAIL products Defence ,Aviation and even Railways!
RE:Forget about Nuclear Energy .can India runs its Railways on indegenous equipment!the answer is big NO!
by satyarthi on Apr 24, 2008 04:13 PM Permalink
Very valid and pointed questions. Unfortunately, we started beleiving in the hype created by west about our untested capabilities. Sometimes ministers are not aware of such issues. Bureaucrats, as we all know, are more interested in foreign visits. Making of bearings for Railways, as i understand, does not require such a complex technology that can't be developed in India. IITs can be given a specific task to do that within a time frame. Railway has enough money to fund such research and start a manufacturing unit,if need arises. I appreciate such factual postings about India.
Assume that your assumptions are downside of the deal. I fail to understand what made you to write downside of the deal when upsides of the deal are overpowering them. If US stop suplying fuel the sky is not going to fall on our head. say US bye bye and let us continuee without deal like we are progressing now.
During school I read the speech Mark Antony made after Julius Caeser was killed. It was his wonderful speech that turned the Romans against Brutus & Co. The opponents of the nuclear deal are desperate that some Mark Antony from the world will write a masterpiece of an article to swing the opinion in their favour. That this deal is a threat to India. This article seems one such myopic attempt. Sorry Mr. Rajeev Srinivasan... you have failed to cut the ice with a vast majority. It's simply a supplier's agreement that any suplier signs with any buyer. There is a terms document. All US can do is stop supplying the fuel if India fails to meet those conditions. What's the harm with that? They have nowhere said they will run India's foreign policy and neither are they saying they will come and capture India. Commies are opposing because of the pressure China exerts on them and NDA is opposing it purely beause it's a UPA deal. If they come to power next elections, they will seek some amendments from the new US regime and will certainly sign the deal. Please do not block development for the sake of cheap politics!
RE:Will the government proceed with the deal?
by Vijay on Apr 24, 2008 01:54 PM Permalink
Actually nothing stops the government from signing the deal. A govt. that is holding legitimate office is allowed to sign bilateral deals without parliament's approval. In this case, the commies have threatened they will withdraw support if UPA signs the deal. Congress by itself was OK with facing early elections but some of the constituents are worried they will lose in an early election scenario. So, they are against signing the deal as the consequences could hurt them. As we get closer to the election dates, one could see the deal getting signed. and hopefully MMS/SG will call the bluff off and actually sign it.
