I Agree Hindu brothers have deeply hurt psyche regarding Hindu Muslim History of India.
Muslims do not wish to Hurt them for sure. However, offensive begins when Hindus take to heart misplaced, distorted propaganda by some communal elements and Build notions that MUSLIM RULERS RUTHLESSLY OPPRESSED THEM.
However, if we dig into such stories, we find such repression stories are without bottom, or at most distorted in big way.
Few examples:
1. Muslims Attacked India to Spread Islam by Force. Reality: Muslim Kings who attacked India were all debased criminals and last thing they would think is Religion. They never wanted majority in their ruled land to be Muslims because a) Islam exhorts muslim masses to resist Kingdoms, b) Islam does not allow heavy taxation. Only 4% is limit...
2. Muslim Rulers Killed Hindus who refused to embrace Islam, raped women, looted them Reality: Various Kings had various behaviors. But in general no-one - Hindu or Muslim King - would kill or threaten subjects. Their aim was to rule...and all they wanted was Tax ... like a true parasite. Stories of Muslim kings taking oppressive actions on defeated armies can not be deemed as any special behavior of muslim Kings. every conquered King, a criminal in core, killed defeated armies, and raped their women and daughters.
RE:DRESSING WOUNDS IS PAINFUL...BUT ESSENTIAL FOR HEALING
by JGN on Apr 14, 2008 07:36 PM Permalink
Are you the same person who yesterday offered 10 million dollars to any hindu if they proved that there was forced conversion by the Islamic rulers?
RE:DRESSING WOUNDS IS PAINFUL...BUT ESSENTIAL FOR HEALING
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 07:42 PM Permalink
But I nowhere said Muslim Kings forced conversions. If you read carefully, I am saying that Kings in history have been inherently bad, and every king killed tortured and killed defeated armies/kings.
But please notice, this is quite different from how same king treated masses. No Muslim king oppressed Hindu Masses. Yes, like a typical king, they did oppress defeated armies of Rajas. But to say they did so because defeated army was HINDU is absolutely wrong
Conversion to Islam is nowhere in discussion here, dude
RE:DRESSING WOUNDS IS PAINFUL...BUT ESSENTIAL FOR HEALING
by JGN on Apr 14, 2008 08:01 PM Permalink
No, the muslim kings did not force anybody to convert. They gave the natives of India "a jadu ki jhappi" and asked them to convert. Lo and behold, the natives got converted!!!!!!!
RE:DRESSING WOUNDS IS PAINFUL...BUT ESSENTIAL FOR HEALING
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 08:04 PM Permalink
Indian Caste System and discrimination associated with it did the work. Low caste Hindus converted to Islam because Hindus treated them worse than animals.
RE:DRESSING WOUNDS IS PAINFUL...BUT ESSENTIAL FOR HEALING
by JGN on Apr 14, 2008 08:09 PM Permalink
If that was the case, there would not have been any "dalits" in UP where the Muslims ruled for nearly 600 years and in Kerala where the Christian Missionaries were very active. Caste system exists in both Islam and Christianity.
So the equality in Islam and Christianity are just myths. Put the words "Caste system in Islam" in any internet serach engine and see the results.
India is going to be super power one day Inshallah ! with growth in all field, please don divide this nation by buying story of hatred spread by west for there personel interest. Luv all living n non living creation God! n those who spread hatred n preach posion in name of any relegion or by getting influence by propoganda of west single them out for ever.
RE:India is going to be Super power
by san df on Apr 14, 2008 06:35 PM Permalink
WE need muslims like u my friend and i am sure thr r loadz and loadz of guys like u out thr. Also my friend plz dont think that i m degrading u. We need ur help to kick out lakhs and lakhs of illegal bangladeshi muslims in India. This is a huge problem and it wud dismantle our great nation and itz very serious. The concerned authorities are treating this as a very serious issue whereas the secualr govt and the secular award winning english media is not highlighting it.
RE:India is going to be Super power
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 06:47 PM Permalink
If the basis is illegal foreign nationals, we are one with you.
But if, like RSS, you say B'Deshi Hindus are fine to be here, Nepali Hindus are fine to be here, but b'Deshi Muslims are not allowed, then we have problem. We will have to be secular in our views
BJP govt initiated moves to build Startegic Alliance with West can not be a recipe for peace in India. This Strategic Alliance is rooted in building front against Islam in future war of WEST with it.
With 180 Million Muslims in India, such foreign policy can not be basis for peace. So govt must learn from Pakistan, and desist from building blind alliance with WEST that seeks to build front against ISLAM.
Remember, education level of Muslim is rising...and govt can not take them for ride any more
RE:INDIAN FOREIGN POLICY MUST CHANGE
by san df on Apr 14, 2008 06:39 PM Permalink
The govt must definitely hav a strategic alliance with the west inorder to counter pakistani terrorism and chinese oppression. But at the same time as u hav said it must not b against islam. Already we hav suffered a lot due to the good qualty called PEACE. We must do watz gud for oursleves.
1. Globally, It has become fashion to blame Islam for Violence that is rooted in regional politics... issues of Chechenya, Palestine Kashmir are wrongly painted as Islamist issues. Islam is crookedly blamed by adversaries of Islam for these issues which are purely political.
THIS MUST END
2. In India, Hindus want to build case that approx 30% spread of Islam in Indian subcontinent (India, pakistan, B'Desh) is entirely due to FORCED conversions. This is wholly unfounded with no Historical evidence. Wars between Muslim Kings and Indian Raja's are misconstrued as war for spreading Islam. In reality Muslim Kings never wanted to spread Islam in their lands (Infact they were opposed to it) because a) ISLAM never supported King's rule, and b) Islam is against tax beyond 4%. But these Kings wanted life Kingsize that required to levy 25% to 40% tax.
SO BASELESS INSINUATIONS AGAINST ISLAM MUST END
This is essential for peaceful future.
Else, we are all heading for a serious war in future between Muslims and Non-Muslim world
RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 05:45 PM Permalink
Wars of History between Muslim Badshah and Hindu King must not be seen as war between Muslims and Hindus.
They must be seen as war between Muslim Crimanls/Parasites and Hindu Criminals/Parasites.
Neither Religion was ever linked to these Kings.
Kings kept humanity hostage for thousands of years. Islam never recognized Kingdoms. All Mughal Kings, all Tughlaqs, and Afghans who invaded india were just Criminlas in eyes of Islam.
Likewise, Hindus must appreciate that no point glorifying any Hindu King. They were as bad and corrupt parasites as any other.
Only IDIOTS of highest order will fight on the basis of King's identity.
RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by Piyush Bhargava on Apr 14, 2008 06:14 PM Permalink
It seems you are a student of some Madrasa in 2 or 3rd standard having no idea about history.Cruelty of muslims is a documented fact.Aurangzeb was famous for cruelty.Why did the muslims impose jazira tax on Hindus. It is true that majority of the muslims in India had been converted to muslims under the threat of the sword.The Mughals were criminals and looters.
RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 06:31 PM Permalink
Every King became first a criminal, then the King. I accept that. Be it Muslim or Hindu or Christian.
Sikh Gurus were exceptions...Muslim Caliphs were exceptions. But they never established Dynastic Rules like Kings. So they were not kings.
Jazia is only 4%. So it can not be called cruelty.
Aurangzeb tried to promote spreading of Islam. But force was not used. He gave big lands and money for Temples as well.
Nearest you can go to forced conversion to Islam is that a Prisoner of war who waged war against Islam/Muslims, and who is convicted to death already, would be spared if he accepts Islam. Aurangzeb only used this clause to free prisoners of war taken in Punjab rebellion.
I do not think it amounts to Conversion by SWORD as generally painted by non Muslims
RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by san df on Apr 14, 2008 06:12 PM Permalink
My dear friend u must understand one thing. In India islam is not the only minority religion. Thr r so many other religions among which islam is only one of them. Go and check history without partiality my friend. Invading muslims hav destroyed hundreds of temples and constructed mosques, raped women, converted so many people, snatched away land in the form of pakistan and bangladesh (now kashmir) and now terrorism in the name of religion targetting innocent civilians. You seem to b a moderate muslim with good intentions and peaceful coexistence but seein wat has happened and still happenin has sowed the seeds of hatred in my mind. All though todays muslims are not responsible and they must not b blamed, i want proper history about wat islam has done to india to b published. I too want peaceful coexistence but not at the cost of my people, my religion and my country
RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 06:18 PM Permalink
SURE...True History must come out. Uptil now only communalists took job of (mis)teaching Indians.
Muslim Kings - who are nothing but criminals in eyes of Islam - did nothing especially bad. All kings in History looted in conquered lands, lifted women, raped them. Some Muslim kings looted Temples not because it was linked to religion. But because they knew they will get big wealth there. Diamonds and Gold and what not that Hindus used to offer in Temples. Again this aspect is wrongly painted in history.
Unless we present correct and balanced version of History, this hatred s not expected to go down.
RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by san df on Apr 14, 2008 06:21 PM Permalink
Also u people must stop producin so many kids and accept common civil law. Look at the rise in muslim population in india and the drop and persecution of hindu population in pakistan and bangladesh. And u wer writin abt hindu kings. Many Hindu monarchs wer thousand times better than todays democracy from Dasarath, Rama then to Bharata, Dharmaraju, Parikshit to Chandra gupta Maurya to the great Shivaji, Rajputs, Krishna Devaralu and Tamil kings like Cholas and Pandyas. There were good religious practises, respect for women, proper protection to the people and there was DHARMA which are lacking today.
RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by san df on Apr 14, 2008 06:27 PM Permalink
My dear friend itz because of history and fundamentalism, u and me fight who want peace and frienship. But at the same time also understand what sufferins the hindus faced and still we are very vibrant today. Hatz of to u for accepting the truth (which many muslims dont do). We dont want u guys to pay for wat ur fore-fathers hav done but we want u to accept history, appreciate hindus and treat them and hinduism with respect and a very small minority of muslims to stop support terror in india.
RE:RE:INSINUATING ISLAM MUST END... for peaceful coexistence
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 06:38 PM Permalink
again, you smack of nurturing idea that Muslim Kings ruthlessly oppressed Hindus.
No..that is all made up. Many temples were destroyed, I agree, But some Mosques too were looted because they bore costly stones on walls. Muslim Kings were criminals like any other. But they were superstitious and insecure too. They thought Allah will save them if they demolished Temples with IDOLS. But their acts have nothing to do with Islam. Islam does not advocate that behavior.
So, chapter of Kings must be forgotton as bad era without carrying over any Blames on one.
But if Hindus will aggressively insinuate without substantiating charges that Muslim kings were Bad because Islam made them so, then noway we will have peaceful relations.
for all Muslims on this forum,please friends dont think that the general tone in this thread is in anyway representative of Hindus. this thread is always highjacked by some poison filled people,who then write under different names to make it appear they are in a large number. we respect all patriotic India loving Muslims and appreciate your communities contribution to art and culture here. however we would appreciate it if all Indian muslims were a bit more vocal in their condemnation of terrorism. we dont hate you or your religion,if you are patriotic indians and dont support paki politics,this is your country as much as any ones. please please dont write offensively against india, as we love our country and cannot tolerate anything against.
RE:this is a great country
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 05:56 PM Permalink
Recognize that WEST is major player in TERROR in this world. That it has wrongly killed Millions of Muslims in last decades...
...and do not build strategic partnerships with West whose pivotal base is war with ISLAM
That is your bit you need to do before seeking our support in fighting Terror
RE:this is a great country
by Piyush Bhargava on Apr 14, 2008 06:19 PM Permalink
The West did not kill muslims.It is only after the muslims attacked the west that the west came and bombed the shit out of you.Stop this killing and nobody will harm you.Can't you understand this simple fact.
RE:this is a great country
by Wahaj Faridy on Apr 14, 2008 06:11 PM Permalink
@ajgmdtmgajtpw
Every Muslim born in India loves India by default. Only when he finds communalism of indian society giving them raw deal that they lose pride in being Indian.
So you must understand where corrective action is required
When we Muslims find that Terror against Muslims is EQUALLY condemed...when people appreciate that Terror against Muslims has killed millions of Muslims...and that people feel that terror against Muslims must end, that we will join hands with YOU and fight TERROR.
RIGHT NOW, YOU WANT TO ACT BLIND TO TERROR ON MUSLIMS THAT IS REAL AND MAMMOTH, AND WANT US TO CONDEMN MUSLIMS/ISLAM FOR TERROR THAT IS ONLY FRINGE IN PROPORTION
i am not abusing islam. i am only abusing those guys who support pakistan and terrorist acts in india, just because of religious purpose . so people who try to find fault with me should change there community people first
RE:to everone who feels i am abusing islam
by gac on Apr 14, 2008 05:27 PM Permalink
supporting terrorist acts is wrong, wats wrong in supporting Pak after all its our sibling country..
RE:to everone who feels i am abusing islam
by deathtocongress on Apr 14, 2008 05:29 PM Permalink
supporting pakistans pople is not wrong , but suuporting pakistans intention to strike terror in india is wrong
RE:to everone who feels i am abusing islam
by Sublime Voice on Apr 14, 2008 05:30 PM Permalink
your statements are contradictory. You said above that you are not abusing islam. But the messages below shows your hatred towards the prophet and the holy book of Islam by attributing devilish characteristics.
RE:to everone who feels i am abusing islam
by deathtocongress on Apr 14, 2008 05:32 PM Permalink
now plz dont make me start again. they showed islam as the reason to support terrorits activite in india. hence i abuse everything which comes in way india
RE:to everone who feels i am abusing islam
by AHMED ALI on Apr 14, 2008 05:36 PM Permalink
so u will belive what ever is written in this article. our forefathers were loyal to india that is why they did not leave and we too have same blood as our father had loyal to india
RE:to everone who feels i am abusing islam
by deathtocongress on Apr 14, 2008 05:40 PM Permalink
i am not scolding ur forefather or u, just see this wahaj messages he deserves to be scolded
RE:shah jafer son of a whorre
by shah jafar on Apr 14, 2008 05:36 PM Permalink
well buddy, who is poking what ,where is visible from ur language.i have no concern, u do as ur wish. My isuue is ur abusive language about my religion. what u know about Islam? how do u make such bad comments. does i or any muslim ever say bad about ur belief.tell?and more important, what u get? does it make ISLAM small or u ? U decide?
RE:RE:shah jafer son of a whorre
by ajgmdtmgajtpw on Apr 14, 2008 05:50 PM Permalink
we respect all patriotic India loving Muslims and appreciate your communities great contribution to art and culture here. however we would appreciate it if all Indian muslims were a bit more vocal in their condemnation of terrorism. we dont hate you or your religion,if you are patriotic indians and dont support paki politics,this is your country as much as any ones. please please dont write offensively against india, as we love our country and cannot tolerate anything against it.we believe that Islam stands for peace and that is perfectly exemplified by 20 crore patriotic Indian muslims.
RE:RE:shah jafer son of a whorre
by deathtocongress on Apr 14, 2008 05:41 PM Permalink
just browese forum buddy they abused my religion first , when i am paying back in same coins why do cry foul. u got to pay for ur mistakes
RE:RE:RE:shah jafer son of a whorre
by shah jafar on Apr 14, 2008 05:48 PM Permalink
u pay as u please, good u r influenced by me and my words.Now i have sympathy for u and ur ilk.Please continue, now i will enjoy. once gain i am retrerating not a single message where we say bad about any belief and if u wish and patience , i will tell the reason. U are abusing my belief but i refrained from making any bad comments bcoz as per my belief as long as i am not instigating u i am not sinned, the moment i say something bad about ur religion and u reply in bad, i will be responsible and sinned.Bye. May Allah give u true understanding. History of Islam is filled with people who were Islam hater and later become most ardent followers.
Mr gyan vedi,the way you are deriding hindu religious figures shows that you are an athiest and a hate filled person. no one has the right to insult anyones faith, if you dont believe in it,fine ,but should you be writing this way about hinduism or any religion for that matter. what does this show about you and all you got in return was abuses by equally uncivilised people,this was supposed to be a debate about 2 foreighn nations and unfortunately is now a debate on how yoy can abuse religion and faith and family. india will never achieve true greatness as long as its citizens resort to such shallow and petty behavior,if any foreighner is skimming through,what impression will he carry about our country and culture? is this what Dr Kalam called a superpower of this century,a country where everyne is abusing every others religion,beliefs ,mothers...... shame on us all...
RE:gyan vedi you are wrong
by deathtocongress on Apr 14, 2008 05:18 PM Permalink
hey he is not gyan vedi he is muslim with that id. they try all cheep tricks in the book (quran),. they never change, only death will give them rest
RE:RE:RE:gyan vedi you are wrong
by Sublime Voice on Apr 14, 2008 05:25 PM Permalink
If gyan vedi is a true muslim then he is not supposed to speak bad about any other faith or their gods. There is verse in Qur'an prohibiting the muslims from abusing other faiths or their gods.
Don't keep blind hatred towards Islam. Try to reason
RE:gyan vedi you are wrong
by jijo on Apr 14, 2008 05:30 PM Permalink
>>>Qur'an prohibiting the muslims from abusing >>>other faiths or their gods What it is the verse?
