We Hindus are docile, law abiding and to a great extent cowardly, and that is why everybody is bullying and insulting us. Thousands of years of slavery has repressed and suppressed us and we are unable to fight or even protest in an effective manner.
Just think, would insult of their traditional gods be tolerated in any other community or nation? Jesus also drank alcohol, in fact it is claimed that he made water into wine, will Karunanidhi ever dare to call Jesus a drunkard ? It is claimed that Prophet Mohammed went to heaven on a horse back, will Sonia, Karunanidhi, and Prakash Karat dare call this as superstition ? What is the proof that Adam and Eve were really existing ? Kushwant Singh now wants to know the date of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna. Why will he not ask for date of birth of Adam & Eve ? Why will he not ask for correct date and time of crucifixion of Christ ? Why will he not ask the correct time and date of birth of Prophet Mohammed ?
The problem is that all these worthless fellows know that they can get free media space for the rubbish they keep uttering everyday. The Hindus will meekly protest and those who protest will be abused everywhere as communal, anti-secular, and pro BJP. Try doing such stunts on the beliefs of any other community, they will become violent, ferocious and will seek nothing short of execution of those who speak against their religion.
The tragedy is that we Hindus never learn or realise that our very e
RE:I dare DMK leaders to open their dirty mouth!!
by on Sep 26, 2007 05:28 AM Permalink
They Problem with Indian people is that they are afraid of every thing which exist in this world, that is the reason they start worshipping these things by givin it a human body.
May be Ram did existed, however he might have been a chavalier and not God as worshiped by Hindus. Even they worship now the modern Gods such as Amitabh, Shahrukh, and famous Tamil actress Khusboo, you Indians will never woke up, no matter how well you are educated, you are still the same, you beleive in millions of Gods made out of your imaginations, and do all the ruthless rituals.
Just realize what and come to your senses what you are upto, and who you are worshipping, ironically your worship human male organs, to animals, its really disgusting.
My friend woke up these statues would not do any harm to you. Pray one GOD.
RE:I dare DMK leaders to open their dirty mouth!!
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:27 AM Permalink
(Contd) The tragedy is that we Hindus never learn or realise that our very existence is being threatened not only by these rubbish spouting politicians but by those foreigners, who are quietly ,analysing and studying our physical and mental reactions, in order to make assessments, of what reactions to anticipate in the event of some conflagration.
In any other country Ambika Soni, Karunanidhi, the Additional Solicitor General Mr.Gopal Subramaniam, ASI Director General, Culture Secretary, all would have been thrown out, nobody would have even cared to ask their views. But in Hindustan two middle level officers are suspended and all other offenders are creating a ruckus by demanding proof, scientific evidence, historical truth, and what not ?
We are living in a society where even the truth of what happenned yesterday is not known to anyone ! What happenned between Dayanidhi Maran and Karunanidhi, will they enlighten the scientific, historical and social truth of what went wrong ? What about the Bofors truth ?
Those who keep demanding proofs and truths for each and everything should well remember that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others.
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:55 AM Permalink
CAN YOU QUOTE ME EXACTLY WHERE IN RAMAYAN, CURRENT PRACTICE OF CASTEISM BASED ON ONES BIRTH IS PRACTICED?
IF RAMAYANA ADVOCATES ORIGINAL CASTEISM, WHICH CLASSIFIES PEOPLE IN A SOCIETY IN TO ONLY 4 CLASSES (Bramhin, Vysya, Kshatriya & Sudra) AND THAT TOO, PURELY BASED ON ONES CHARACTER AND NOT ON BIRTH OR ANY OTHER CRITERIA, THEN, SUCH CASTEISM IS IN EVERY SOCIETY IN ALL OVER THE WORLD, INCLUDING YOUR SO CALLED DRAVIDIAN SOCIETY OF TAMIALNADU.
PLEASE DO QUOTE ME ON WHERE EXACTLY RAMAYAN ADVICATES BIRTH BASED CASTEISM.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:08 AM Permalink
First don%u2019t divide people into any caste. Because division leads nowhere except oppression. No Dravidian system classifies people in the name of caste. Our Tamil Hindu literature (that we follow during birth and death) by the Enlighten Manikkavasagar talks about no division. A same person is capable of doing service, protection, trade and getting knowledge in one birth. Ramayan clearly says that the duty of Kshatriya was to protect Brahmins. Some people say that Brahmins are Englighten one that needs protection. Our Englighten Manikkavasagar did not need protection and he did not ask for it. In the whole world, the fearless people are the Enlighten ones and they don%u2019t ask for protection. Ramayan promoted Brahmin/Kshatriya tandem was to impose castism on the people who don%u2019t believe in Caste.
does Ramayan advocate Caste or not? we don't care if it birth based or character based.
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:14 AM Permalink
GO AHEAD AND HAVE AN INDISCRIMINATE BEHAVIOR THAT IS NOT BASED ON THE CHARACTER OF A PERSON IN TAMILNADU AND YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED TO SEE THAT IN ONE GENERATION, TAMILNADU BECOME A LOST STATE OF INDIA. THIS IS BECAUSE, PEOPLE MEAN NOT JUST BODY, BUT PEOPLE MEAN CHARACTER OF A PERSON.
I HAVE A SIMPLE QUESTION TO YOU? WHEN YOU WANT TO INVITE SOMEONE NEW TO YOUR HOME, DO YOU NOT LOOK AT THE CHARACTER OR BENT OF THE MIND OF THE PERSON OR NOT? DO YOU INVITE THIS NEW PERSON WITH OUT EVEN EVALUATING THE CHARACTER OF THAT PERSON? IF YES, THEN YOU ARE TRUELY ENLIGHTENED PERSON WHO REALIZED THAT GOD IS ALL PERVADING. BUT IF YOU DO LOOK AT THE CHARACTER OF THE PEROSN BEFORE INVITING THAT PERSON TO YOUR HOE, THEN YOU ARE DOING DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CHARACTER (WHIHC IS NOTHING BUT ORIGINAL CASTE BEING PRACTICED BY YOU), WHICH AS PER YOUR DEFINITION, WRONG.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:19 AM Permalink
first you need to answer if Ramayan advocates caste system or not? I am not asking if it is birth based or character based. We are not talking who i invite to my home and who I don't invite. we are talking abt welfare of millions of people who are oppressed in the name of castes
RE:RE:RE:End of Castism
by Rationalist on Sep 26, 2007 06:28 AM Permalink
It is the Vedic knowledge that created division between Hindus and that led to India's conquest by foreigners. Vedic system led to 1000 years of foreign rule over India
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:24 AM Permalink
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO FIRST SAID THAT RAMAYANA DISCRIMINATES BASED ON CASTE OF A PERSON. CAN YOU PLEASE QUOTE ME WHERE EXACTLY IN RAMAYANA THIS DISCRIMINATION EXISTS? EVEN ONLINE POINTER IS FINE FOR ME.
ALSO, IN YOUR VIEW, WHAT IS A CASTE? I THINK, YOU ARE NOT CLEAR ABOUT IT. IN MY VIEW, CLASSIFICATION OF A PERSON SHOULD BE DONE BASED ON THE CHARACTER OF THAT PERSON. I MAY OR MAY NOT CALL IT AS A CASTE, BUT ITS NOT THE POINT. BUT SHOULD WE SHOW DISCRIMINATION BASED ON CHARACTER OF A PERSON? YES.
ALSO, PLEASE POINT ME TO RAMAYANA WHERE CASTE DISCRIMINATION IS SHOWN. WE CAN DISCUSS THINGS PEACEFULLY AND CALMLY RATHER THAN GET IRRITATED OR GETTING CONVERSATION UGLY.
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:42 AM Permalink
YOU ASKED WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF CASTE SYSTEM RIGHT:
WE SHOULD ATTRIBUTE CASTE SYSTEM (THOUGH SOME PEOPLE MISUSED IT FOR THEIR SELFISH MOTIVES) FOR PRESERVING THE VEDIC KNOWLEDGE THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR GENERATING CHRIST/KRISHNA LIKE SAINTS IN INDIA IN ALMOST EVERY GENERATION, WHILE THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOWS ONLY one or two ENLIGHTENED SAINTS OF THAT STATURE.
YEAH. I KNOW WE HAD FACED MAJOR PROBLEMSDUE TO PEOPLE MISUSING THIS SYSTEM, BUT WE SHOULD ACCOUNT THE PEOPLE FOR THIS MISTAKES THAT THEY DID RATHER THAN THE KNOWLEDGE ITSELF. IN THIS CASE, WE SHOULD ACCONT THOSE WHO USED ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM FOR THEIR SELFISH MOTIVES BUT WE SHOULD NOT IGNORE OR BLAME THE MOTIVES BEHIND OUR ANCESTORS IN IDENTIFYING THE CASTE SYSTEM THAT IS BASED ON CHARACTER OF A PERSON.
HAD WE NOT FOLLOWED THE CHARACTER BASED CLASSIFICATION SINCE AGES, HINDUISM WOULD NOT HAVE SPRING BACK TO LIFE INSPITE OF FACING BRUTAL FORCES LIKE ISLAMIC INVADERS e.t.c.
IT IS THIS VEDIC KNOWLEDGE THAT POWERS INDIA TOWARDS PROGRESS INSPITE OF HAVING MANY PROBLEMS AT THE MATERIAL AND MIND LEVEL. VEDIC KNOWLEDGE IS TO BE ATTRUBUTED FOR GIVING BIRTH TO SAINTS WHO REALIGNED THE DIRECTION OF HINDU SOCIETY IN TIMES OF NEED.
RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:31 AM Permalink
Mr.Sridhar, I did not say say that Ramayana Discriminates based on caste. I said Ramayana promotes caste system. What is the result of the caste system? 5000 years of oppression of working class people.
RE:End of Castism
by a a on Sep 26, 2007 05:24 AM Permalink
Cool. Lord Shiva is a Brahmin. Parvathi was a Kshatriya (being born to Himavaan). Technically Pilliyaar and Mururan are also Brahmin/ Kshatriya. And don't you know that Sivan always chants "Rama Rama..."?
RE:RE:End of Castism
by Rationalist on Sep 26, 2007 06:32 AM Permalink
Wrong answer. Murugan is a hunter god who belongs to TamilNadu. Making Murugan as the son of Siva is the later addition by upper caste people. Murugan doesn't have any caste
RE:End of Castism
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:20 AM Permalink
The state wide violence unleashed by the DMK cadres with the alleged connivance of the state police, under the leadership of Ministers, Mayors and MLAs, on the instigation of a senior cabinet minister with the knowledge of his party leader and Chief Minister, is most condemnable.
This state-sponsored violence was unleashed, despite the withdrawal of the statement by Ramvilas Vedanti, former BJP MP from Ayodhya .The alliance parties (PMK, DK, VSK, Congress & Communists), which in no time condemned the attack on the house of the CM's daughter in Bangalore, consequent to his insensitive & denigrating remarks on Lord Rama, didn't bother to condemn the violence perpetrated on the offices & residences of the BJP / VHP / RSS and Hindu Munnani leaders and that shows their total disregard to democratic principles and that has shown their lack of courage too.
The central government, which lost no time in condemning the Bangalore incident (surprisingly no loss of sleep this time), kept quiet on the DMK's statewide violence and instead, the UPA Chairperson Sonia supported the violence in the name of "fight against the communal forces". When compared with the Chief Minister's insensitive diatribes against Lord Rama, the silly statement issued by Ramvilas Vedanthi, a non-entity in Tamil Nadu, pales in to insignificance. When one can comment on a "Saami" (God), what is wrong in one commenting on an "Aasami" (Man)?
RE:RE:End of Castism
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:21 AM Permalink
(contd)The TMMK (Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazhagam) leader Jawahirulla's comments against the BJP & RSS are unwarranted and his unnecessary interference in an issue involving DMK, BJP and Ramayana must be condemned in the strongest of terms. He had ridiculed the statement of Ramvilas Vedanti, which was misreported as a 'fatwa' by the media. He must be reminded that he belongs to the community, which issues 'fatwas' at anything & everything and that there are hundreds of fatwas still alive in this country, ranging from Salman Rushdie's case to Taslima Nasree's case. One wonders what business he has got to do with this issue and what right & authority he has got to comment on BJP! Incidentally, Jawahirulla was attached with Al Umma and he was a compatriot of Al Umma leader Basha along with the present TMMK president Hyder Ali during the attack on RSS headquarters in Chennai during 1992, in which 11 Swayamsevaks lost their precious lives. Jawahirulla & Hyder Ali left out with Basha (a planned move) and started the TMMK before the Coimbatore Blasts, as they anticipated the ban on Al Umma after the blasts.
The DMK & its allies are hyping the worthless SSCP as a project of unimaginable development in the name of Tamil & welfare of Tamils, while actually it is expected to benefit only a handful of 'Dravidian' leaders and their ilk . Instead of leading the people of the state along the line "Tamizhan enru sollada, Thalai nimirndhu nillada!" (Say you are a Tamil and keep yo
RE:End of Castism
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:32 AM Permalink
(contd) Instead of leading the people of the state along the line "Tamizhan enru sollada, Thalai nimirndhu nillada!" (Say you are a Tamil and keep your head high), the DPA leaders are misleading the people along the line "Dravidan enru sollada, Thalai kunindhu nillada!" (Say you are a Dravidan and hang your head in shame).
The fact of the matter is that, the central government has understood the inevitability of shelving the useless project due to various reasons, but the state government could not digest the fact and hence is venting it's purported anger against the central government on the BJP and other Hindu organizations! If the state government accepts the center's decision without any protest, it will lose its face and the misled people will cry foul and hence this drama.
The end result is that, this SSCP - Rama Sethu issue has made the people of this country (both believers & non-believers) to indulge in "Rama Namasmarana" that is thinking of Lord Rama and chanting his name, on a daily basis. "Ramlila" has started and very soon the people of this country in general and DMK / DK in particular will realize that Lord Rama is not an imaginary character, but the 'Avatar' of the Almighty God!
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:57 AM Permalink
SEE MY BELOW POSTING ON THE ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM. THIS SYSTEM OF CASTE CLASSIFICATION BASED ON A PERSONS CHARACTER IS PRACTICED EVERYWHERE. IT IS THIS CLASSIFICATION BASED ON ONES CHARACTER THAT CHRISTIANS USE TO APPOINT A PERSON AS A FATHER OF THE CHURCH AND USED BY MUSLIMS TO APPOINT A PERSON AS A IMAM OF A MOSQUE. SO, ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM IS PRACTICED ALL OVER THE WORLD DEAR FRIEND.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:15 AM Permalink
That's right. the whole world followed the political caste system. and it was a failed political system. that's why we are practising democracy now. Now, the democratic TN people want Sethu Canal for their welfare but the political caste believers want to impose their belief on hinder the progress of the poor people. This is nothing but imposing the castism on poor people to continue the oppression of 5000 years
RE:End of Castism
by on Sep 26, 2007 04:46 AM Permalink
In India, lower caste people are discriminated. and without lower caste's dirty job, upper caste can't lead a civilized life.
But, lower caste will discriminated just because they lower caste and they dirty job. Greate justification.
RE:RE:End of Castism
by Rationalist on Sep 26, 2007 06:26 AM Permalink
A person character changes depending on the situation. Humans don't have fixed character.
You are just endorsing a person character by the work they do. And you are promoting caste. we will fight against that and bring equivality to all hindus
RE:End of Castism
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 04:54 AM Permalink
YOU ARE AGAIN LOOKING IN TO THE ACTIONS OF A PERSON TO DO DISCRIMINATION RATHER THAN CHARACTER.
IN ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM, A PERSON MAY BE A DHOBI OR A LAUNDRY PERSON, BUT IF HE IS OF HIGH CHARACTER, THEN THAT PERSON IS GIVEN GREAT IMPORTANCE. BUT THE ADULTERATED CASTE SYSTEM IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AS NOT JUSTIFIABLE WHICH I ALSO AGREE.
NEITHER WORK, NOR BIRTH NOR ANYTHING ELSE MAKES A PERSON ELIGIBLE TO BE CLASSIFIED AS A BRAMHIN OR ANY CLASS OTHER THAN SUDRA, EXCEPT THE CHARACTER. CHARACTER ALON DETERMINES A PERSONS TRUE CASTE.
RE:3 cheers to togadia
by anir on Sep 26, 2007 03:40 AM Permalink
It is clearTogadia is a sensible, media has systematically tarnished VHP
by anir on Sep 26, 2007 01:28 AM | Hide replies
Even in Washington Post, a few days back, Rama Lakshmi, reported an outright lie - that no one is supporting hindu organisations against its case for destruction of Ram Sethu. Actually people of all faiths are supporting.
Its really admirable to see Wash Post always getting hold of some communist-hindu journalist to report on India.
No wonder, other than Caste, cows, dowry, nothing gets reported in WP, NYT etc.
RE:3 cheers to togadia
by Chola King on Sep 26, 2007 04:06 AM Permalink
Statement issued by Shri. V.R.Krishna Iyer former Supreme Court Judge on 14 August 2007
According to Mr.Cardoze, famous U.S legal luminary, ''Means un lawful in their inception do not become lawful by relation when suspicion turns in to discovery.''
These words come to me when I talk of the Sethusamudaram Canel Project. The callousness with which such a big project is conceptualized and implemented is an unpardonable act.
First of all I would like to state that neither I nor any patriotic citizen could support this project. It is a serious fault that neither scientists, technocrats nor Indian Navy had been consulted and sought their opinions before this project was conceptualized. More over the project is an open challenge to age old Hindu beliefs.
At least the opinion that the implementation of this project as envisaged now may lead to oceanic eruptions like Tsunami should be considered and studied.
According Shri Kalyanaraman, the reputed researcher, this project would invite disasters like Tsunami to our southern coast and pose as a threat to the valuable mineral sand deposits along this coast.
Unlike in the case of Suez Canal, this canal penetrates deep in to the seabed. All this testifies that the construction of the canal is unwarranted.
I suspect that the haste with which he project is proposed to be completed, ignoring the welfare and progress of he people of India may be to further the interests of countries like America. About this I had se
RE:3 cheers to togadia
by Bala krishnan on Sep 26, 2007 06:04 AM Permalink
Then what do you call incredible india advertisements and India Shining campaigns -- They are neutral and you just see one side of the coin -- The side which you dont want to see -- But still want to be in India. First you claimed all Hindus support your Lord Ram and after knowing the fact that many Hindu's dont belive in a mythological story character to be a god , now you want all faith's to support ?? Good wish
RE:WHO IS THE BEST???????
by sanjay choudhry on Sep 26, 2007 03:28 AM Permalink
Chrsitians do not have a blond man. They have a dead palestinian whose dead body comes alive and starts flying. Muslims have a deranged old pedophile.
The origin of the caste system, formulated by the great legislator Manu, was admirable. He saw clearly that men are distinguished by natural evolution into four great classes: those capable of offering service to society through their bodily labor ( Sudras); those who serve through mentality, skill, agriculture, trade, commerce, business life in general (Vaisyas); those whose talents are administrative, executive, and protective%u2014rulers and warriors ( Kshatriyas); those of contemplative nature, spiritually inspired and inspiring (Brahmins). "Neither birth nor sacraments nor study nor ancestry can decide whether a person is twice-born (i.e., a Brahmin);" the Mahabharata declares, "character and conduct only can decide."Manu instructed society to show respect to its members insofar as they possessed wisdom, virtue, age, kinship or, lastly, wealth.
RE:EVERY SOCIETY ALL OVER THE WORLD HAS CASTE SYSTEM IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:25 AM Permalink
Riches in Vedic India were always despised if they were hoarded or unavailable for charitable purposes. Ungenerous men of great wealth were assigned a low rank in society.
"Inclusion in one of these four castes originally depended not on a man's birth but on his natural capacities as demonstrated by the goal in life he elected to achieve," an article in East-West for January, 1935, tells us. "This goal could be (1) kama, desire, activity of the life of the senses (Sudra stage), (2) artha, gain, fulfilling but controlling the desires (Vaisya stage), (3) dharma, self-discipline, the life of responsibility and right action (Kshatriya stage), (4) moksha, liberation, the life of spirituality and religious teaching (Brahmin stage). These four castes render service to humanity by (1) body, (2) mind, (3) will power, (4) Spirit.
"These four stages have their correspondence in the eternal gunas or qualities of nature, tamas, rajas, and sattva: obstruction, activity, and expansion; or, mass, energy, and intelligence. The four natural castes are marked by the gunas as (1) tamas (ignorance), (2) tamas-rajas (mixture of ignorance and activity), (3) rajas-sattva (mixture of right activity and enlightenment), (4) sattva (enlightenment). Thus has nature marked every man with his caste, by the predominance in himself of one, or the mixture of two, of the gunas. Of course every human being has all three gunas in varying proportions. The guru will be able rightly to determine a man's caste
RE:EVERY SOCIETY ALL OVER THE WORLD HAS CASTE SYSTEM IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:26 AM Permalink
The guru will be able rightly to determine a man's caste or evolutionary status.
Serious evils arose when the caste system became hardened through the centuries into a hereditary halter. Social reformers like Gandhi and the members of very numerous societies in India today are making slow but sure progress in restoring the ancient values of caste, based solely on natural qualification and not on birth. Every nation on earth has its own distinctive misery-producing karma to deal with and remove; India, too, with her versatile and invulnerable spirit, shall prove herself equal to the task of caste-reformation.
"To a certain extent, all races and nations observe in practice, if not in theory, the features of caste. Where there is great license or so-called liberty, particularly in intermarriage between extremes in the natural castes, the race dwindles away and becomes extinct. The Purana Samhita compares the offspring of such unions to barren hybrids, like the mule which is incapable of propagation of its own species. Artificial species are eventually exterminated. History offers abundant proof of numerous great races which no longer have any living representatives. The caste system of India is credited by her most profound thinkers with being the check or preventive against license which has preserved the purity of the race and brought it safely through millenniums of vicissitudes, while other races have vanished in oblivion.
RE:EVERY SOCIETY ALL OVER THE WORLD HAS CASTE SYSTEM IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
by sanjay choudhry on Sep 26, 2007 03:33 AM Permalink
Our caste system is nothing compared to their hatred of non-beleivers and the genocides they have inflicted on them in history.
RE:EVERY SOCIETY ALL OVER THE WORLD HAS CASTE SYSTEM IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:40 AM Permalink
WE HAVE TO AGREE THAT SOME PEOPLE IN THE PAST MISUSED CASTE SYSTEM BY DEVIATING FROM THE ORIGINAL SYSTEM OF CLASSIFYING A PERSON IN TO ONE OF 4 CASTE CLASSIFICATIONS.
YOU ARE RIGHT. THIS SITUATION IS IMPROVING DAY BY DAY IN INDIA AND PEOPLE ARE REALIZING THIS MISTAKE AND CORRECTING THEMSELVES. NEW GENERATION IS GOING TO BE FULLY CHARACTER BASED.
ONCE WE AS INDIANS CORRECT THIS MISTAKE, WE WILL REGAIN THE SUPOERPOWER STATUS IN THE MATERIAL LEVEL BACK.
GOOD LUCK DEAR SANJAY.
YOU ARE RIGHT. PEOPLE HAVE MISUSED ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY TO THE UTMOST EXTENT AND HENCE YOU WOULD NOT SEE ANOTHER PROPHET OR LORD JESUS CHRIST COMING OUT OF 12 Billion CHRISTIANS OR 1 Billion Muslims.
WHILE INDIA WITH ITS VEDIC KNOWLEDGE IS PRODUCING TRUE CHRIST LIKE SAINTS IN EVERY GENERATION SILENTLY WITHOUT A FAIL. INSTEAD OF THINKGIN THAT MINE IS GREAT AND NOTHING ELSE IS GREAT KIND OF MEANMINDEDNESS, IF A PERSON TRULY INTERPRETS AND PRACTICES THE TEACHINGS OF LORD JESUS CHRIST OR PROPHET, THE WORLD WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT MORE BETTER THAN THE CURRENT VIOLENT AND VOLATILE SITUATIONS IN THE WORLD.
RE:Lets kick Hindus out of our India.....
by sanjay choudhry on Sep 26, 2007 03:23 AM Permalink
BIBLE ORDERS MAN TO BE SLAVE OF MAN. CAN ANYBODY EXPLAIN WHAT IS HAPPENING?
"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ." (Ephesians 6:5)
"Slaves, obey your human masters in everything; don't work only while being watched, in order to please men, but work wholeheartedly, fearing the Lord." (Colossians 3:22)
"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back ." (Titus 2:9)
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. " (1 Peter 2:18)
"According to rationalists, anything that cannot be proven does not exist. Therefore, since God's existence has not been proven, he too does not exist. I want to ask them: Has it been proven that God does not exist? So, why are you so eager to believe that God does not exist? " -- This is a poor argument. There is a concept called burden of proof, which always lies with the one making a claim. Thus, if I claim that there is a five headed green monster that feeds on the flesh of the living in the deepest forests of the Amazon, I have to prove it exists. Similarly, if someone claims God exists, the burden of proof lies with that person to first prove that, since they introduce the concept (still waiting on that one). Then, once it has been proven, the burden shifts to the rationalist who then has to prove God does not exist.
Religion and science seek to achieve the same goal - to understand why are we here, how are we here, how did we get here etc. They take two completely different approaches, and people choose to believe what they want. At least Togadia has the right perspective on Karunanidhi... He is an atheist, so why would he say anything different? When religious people claim god is great, why cant an atheist profess his faith (or lack thereof)?
RE:Poor argument put forward...
by sanjay choudhry on Sep 26, 2007 03:27 AM Permalink
Dude, if atheists do not beleive in God, then they should shut up. Or have the guts to go in front of a mosque and say Allah does not exist.
Also, if I don't beleive in motherhood, it does not mean I start abusing everyone's mother. Atheists have no right to insult beleifts of others. THey should just say, they do not beleive in any god and are happy about it.
RE:Poor argument put forward...
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Sep 26, 2007 03:35 AM Permalink
Why should an atheist shut up if they dont believe in god? I dont see religious people keeping their faiths to themselves? Yes, karunanidhi specifically targetted ram, but that was an aside. My post was in the larger context of religion and science - you cannot prove god does not exist before someone proves that god exists - how do you disprove something that hasnt been proven?
RE:Poor argument put forward...
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Sep 26, 2007 03:45 AM Permalink
Well, as far as motherhood is concerned, dude, you are way off the point. Motherhood can be proven... DNA is one way of doing it. Many other ways... It's not a vague concept that means different things to different people. So, questioning the concept of motherhood will make you look stupid (unless you can prove that motherhood is a myth... you might get a PhD and a nobel prize for that one). So... poor argument again mate :D If u say I dont believe a black cat crossing the road is bad luck, do you insult ppl who believe that? Should you be allowed to make such statements? No proof that black cats bring or dont bring bad luck, is there?
RE:Poor argument put forward...
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Sep 26, 2007 04:49 AM Permalink
Very convincing argument... just make a statement and expect me to take your word for it... just like the God argument. Nice... What exactly is illogical in what I wrote above? Apply your logic and let's see if you can prove me wrong!
Well everyone knows why he is doing what he is doing... ask some better questions... I can even disprove his Athiesm, he is not even a good atheist. You need intelligence to even talk like a Athiest. He is a filthy worm in the dry piece of shit. ... should I glorify him further?
RE:RE:Poor argument put forward...
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Sep 26, 2007 03:36 AM Permalink
No, you've done quite enough. But you miss the point of the whole post... It wasnt about karunanidhi at all...
RE:Poor argument put forward...
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:30 AM Permalink
I CAN TELL WHAT IS GOD AND PROVE THAT GOD EXISTS AS WELL. LOOK IN MY BELOW POSTINGS. YOU WILL GET ANSWER.
RE:RE:Poor argument put forward...
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Sep 26, 2007 03:38 AM Permalink
Instead of wasting your time here, please publish this in some journal of repute. You will surely be awarded the nobel prize for proving a concept that has, for millenia, eluded the best minds. Even the buddha eschews that discussion!
RE:Poor argument put forward...
by sridhar gorantla on Sep 26, 2007 03:51 AM Permalink
IT WAS ALREADY PROVEN SINCE AGES AND BEING PROVEN BY EVERY SAINT WHO CAME TO REALIGN THE BEHAVIOR OF THE HUMANITY.
SAINTS ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE BEEN AFFIRMING THAT GOD IS ALL PERVADING AND EVER EXISTING AGAIN & AGAIN. ITS PEOPLE WHO DONOT UNDERTAND IT UNTIL THEIR MODERN SCIENCE PROVES IT SO. BUT BY THE TIME YOUR MODERN SCIENCE PROVES IT, IT MAY TAKE A ANOTHER 1000 or 10000 years. TILL THEN, I GUESS HUMANS WHO TRUST MODERN SCIENCE FOR EVERYTHING HAD TO SUFFER IN THIS WORLD.
MODERN SCIENCE IS STILL EVOLVING AND IT BY ITSELF IS NOT ABLE TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING CURRENTLY.
RE:RE:Poor argument put forward...
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Sep 26, 2007 04:27 AM Permalink
You dont understand what a proof is then. Repeated affirmations do not constitute a proof. All saints have been saying is that there is god. Well, repeating something over and over again does not make it true. Science cannot prove everything yet - nor does it claim to. But it is open to new ideas, new thoughts, something religions can hardly claim to do. Science has an organized way of data gathering, interpretation and theorizing. Religion does the same, but is farm more random, and makes huge leaps in reasoning. The problem with that approach is that if you have something you dont understand, you will not try to find out more about it (because religion tells you God did it - you have your answer right there, what's left to search?). I'll bet there has been more than one occasion where you owe your life/health to modern medicine or modern technology. Instead of having a tantrik/ojha exorcise the disease out of you... So, don't undermine science so much... mankind's progress, lead by the europeans has been primarily because they got sick of the doing exactly what the bible/God tells them to and ask questions for themselves.
Don't feel sorry for me. I'm not the one believing in tall tales and unsubstantiated claims.
RE:Poor argument put forward...
by deepak sarkar on Sep 26, 2007 08:31 AM Permalink
Can science explain the origin of consciousness?In Bhag.Gita,Lord Sri Krsna states,avinashi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam'(2.17),that is, consciousness is the symptom of the 'spirit soul'.He also states that the spirit soul is eternal,it cannot be divided,is insoluble,non combustible and cannot be dried by air.(Bhag.Gita 2.23)Now all you have do to disprove Lord Krsna, is to create consciousness by the combination of matter.If you cannot do that then you have to accept Lord Krsna.Also consider our senses.They are not perfect.Consider vision,we cannot see objects at great distance,or behind a wall or in a dark room we cannot see our own hands.If you gather data by using imperfect sense perception the result is bound to be imperfect.Of course, material knowledge is important since in this world we have to eat to keep our body and soul together but do not forget that it is the soul that keeps the body energised and conscious.The food for the soul is Vaishnavism,ie,devotion to Lord Krsna.It is the natural tendency of the soul since it is part and parcel of the Supreme Soul,Lord Krsna.This natural tendency is also called 'Sanatan dharma'(intrinsic nature,swabhava).Only that will revive and reestablish our loving relationship.This is what the soul hankers for but due to our rebellious tendency we try to seek happiness in sense gratification and thereby further augmenting our karmic reaction and misery.At present we are polishing the cage and forgetting to feed the bird.
