RE:Manipulation of science...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 05:34 PM Permalink
Yes, that is also a possibility. When oil exploration was started in American sub-continent, there were not many takers for the product due to insufficient demand. Many companies who ventured into these Projects were doomed. However, the situation changed drastically with widespread use of hydrocarbon products for numerous applications and now the US is dominating the West Asia in their quest for controlling the resources.
It is characteristic of science that the full explanations are often seized in their essence by the percipient scientist long in advance of any possible proof. ~John Desmond Bernal, The Origin of Life, 1967
Louise: "How did you get here?" Johnny: "Well, basically, there was this little dot, right? And the dot went bang and the bang expanded. Energy formed into matter, matter cooled, matter lived, the amoeba to fish, to fish to fowl, to fowl to frog, to frog to mammal, the mammal to monkey, to monkey to man, amo amas amat, quid pro quo, memento mori, ad infinitum, sprinkle on a little bit of grated cheese and leave under the grill till Doomsday." ~From the movie Naked
Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science. ~Edwin Powell Hubble, The Nature of Science, 1954
I think science has enjoyed an extraordinary success because it has such a limited and narrow realm in which to focus its efforts. Namely, the physical universe. ~Ken Jenkins
1. The more statistically improbable a thing is, the less we can believe that it just happened by blind chance. Super-ficially the obvious alternative to chance is an intelli-gent Designer. (Richard Dawkins, %u201CThe Necessity of Darwinism,%u201D New Scientist, April 15,1982)
2. The complexity of living organisms is matched by the elegant efficiency of their apparent design. If anyone doesn't agree that this amount of complex design cries out for an explanation, I give up! (Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker, W.W. Norton, New York, 1986, preface)
RE:God...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 05:03 PM Permalink
Theism is a hypothesis which, among other things, attempts an explanation of the universe. The theist recognizes a creator who created the universe and is responsible for its operation. The atheist clearly perceives that the assumption of a creator does not advance him in the slightest degree towards the solution of the mysterious problem of the universe. The oft-repeated question still admits of no answer, "Who created the creator"?
It is an absurd answer to reply that the creator created himself, yet, even if this is granted, may not the universe have created itself? If the theist puts forward the statement that God has always existed, the atheist may well reply that if God has always existed, why can he not say that the universe has always existed? The atheist is not concerned with the creation of the universe; to him it presents a problem which is beyond the comprehension of his present mental capacities. He comprehends the fact of its being, and that is as far as he or any rational mind can go. Atheism confines itself to a refutation of theism, and avoids the theistic fallacy of assuming without any proofs or reasonable arguments to substantiate286 the assumption of an intelligent, omnipotent, omniscient, anthropomorphic, and anthropocentric creator. The theistic assumption has but retarded the advance of practical knowledge, and prepared the soil for superstition and the countless terrors of religious beliefs.
RE:God...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 05:19 PM Permalink
Hmm... valid observation... I do not know the answer to 'Who created God?' Shall try to find it out...
RE:God...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 05:23 PM Permalink
To me, the gods were created by the Priestly class and some surrealistic visionaries to hoodwink the gullible. They not only earned a livlihood out of that, but also kept the folks under control and made them commit some of the henious crimes in the history of man-kind. Nearly two-thirds of all wars fought in the world were in the name of religions!
RE:RE:God...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 05:34 PM Permalink
Also JGN, have you ever seen anybody with trance (I mean genuine ones) where they are able to predict the future accurately... how does this happen?
Also, have you seen people who are possessed (dont give the MPD/SPD answer)... they speak a different language which they had not even learnt about...?
There are supernatural forces at work, about which our minds are ill equipped to comprehend...
RE:RE:God...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 06:01 PM Permalink
There was a lottery called Super Lotto (I think it is in operation now also) where first prize is awarded to a person predicting 6 numbers accurately. At times the first prize amount was almost Rs. 8 crores due to accumulation of prize money for want of accurate predictions.
If any of the Astrologers could have predicted, they could have bagged the first prize. Once I had addressed this question to Mr. Bejan Daruwala (one of the most famous astrologers in Mumbai) but he kept quiet.
RE:God...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 05:42 PM Permalink
Dear Seshadri, nobody can predit a future event accurately and I have not come acorss anybody like that. If there was anybody who could have predicted the devasting earth quakes (Lathur, Kutch, etc or recent Tsunami in South India) a lot of lives could have been saved.
Also nobody can speak a language they have not learnt. I can speak six languages, but I don't think I can ever speak a language I have not learnt. These are all hoaxes and were exposed by Rationalists like Dr. A.T. Kovoor.
RE:God...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 05:30 PM Permalink
Actally, you can have an answer to that question of creator of God...
Just as you are fed extra knowledge by qualifying (or grasping) the current one, you cannot comprehend the origin of God in this form...
When the atma comes into one with the paramatman... (cosmic consciousness), the truth would be revealed...
If something is beyond comprehension, it is open to perception.. and this is precisely what has given birth to atheists...
You are entitled to your perception... but there are questions which an atheist cannot answer.. so it is the same square for everyone... hold your beliefs and perception with yourself and live a peaceful and contented life...
I cannot believe that our existence in this universe is a mere quirk of fate, an accident of history, an incidental blip in the great cosmic drama%u2026 Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor by-product of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here. (Paul Davies, The Mind of God, Simon & Schuster, New York, 1992, p h3232)
1. That there are what I, or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact%u2026 (Robert Jastrow, "A Scientist Caught Between Two Faiths," Interview with Bill Durbin, Christianity Today, August 6, 1982, p. 18)
2. For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries. (Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers, W.W. Norton, New York, 1978, p. 116)
RE:Religion...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 05:00 PM Permalink
Which theologians are he talking about? Those who burnt hundreds of thousands of women in mideval Europe because of just one sentence in the Bible? Or those who prompted young widows in India to burn themselves in the funeral pyres of their dead husbands on the hope of uniting in the re-birth? I don't think these practices are encouraged in the modern world!
RE:Religion...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 05:06 PM Permalink
You are emphasising more on how religion is/was practised rather than what it actually teaches... correct this fallacy...
RE:Religion...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 05:16 PM Permalink
I have read enough about Hindu, Christian, Muslim and Jewish beliefs and little bit about some other religions also. I have not found the scriptures of any of them based on science and technology. whatever progress is there on planet earth, it is due to sheer hard work of human-beings. We cannot see the hand of any god in creations of Steel Plants, Power Plants, Manufacturing industries,etc.
RE:Religion...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 05:24 PM Permalink
Of course, the hand of God is everywhere, in propelling our minds, in our existence; may be that he has not physically manifested himself in order to construct a steel factory... but that does not deny his presence...
RE:Religion...
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 05:28 PM Permalink
In that case why the god is inclined to favour only human beings? Other animals, plants, etc are also his creations.
RE:RE:Religion...
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 05:43 PM Permalink
I think the above question should be addressed to God...
I am not his authorized representative to discuss his feelings and motives behind any scheme of things... once I reach that exalted stage, I shall definitely enlighten you my friend...
Atheism teaches man to endeavor constantly to better his own condition and that of all of his fellowmen, to make his children wiser and happier; it supplies the powerful urge to add something new to the knowledge of mankind. And all this, not in the vain hope of being rewarded in another world, but from a pure sense of duty as a citizen of nature, as a patriot of the planet on which he dwells. This is no cold and cheerless philosophy; it is an elevating and ennobling ideal which may console him in his afflictions and teach him how to live and how to die. It is a self-reliant philosophy that makes a man intellectually free, and this mental emancipation allows him to face the world without fear of ghosts and gods. It relates solely to facts, while theism resorts to opinions that are grounded only upon emotionalism. Joseph Lewis has well noted that, "Atheism does not believe that man's mission on earth is to love and glorify God, but it does believe in living this life so that when you pass on, the world will be better for your having lived - Dr. D.M. Brooks
RE:Atheism
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 04:29 PM Permalink
So in effect, it is also a belief...
They path is to be chosen by the individual depending on his bent of mind...
Deriving from Lord Krishna's message - a true atheist has a detached mind, as he works on pure logic. So, the atheist too, albeit a different way, try to progress to be one with the "Para Brahmam"
RE:Atheism
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 04:56 PM Permalink
Dear Seshadri,
It is not progressing with "Para Brahmam" but quest for knowledge based on science and technology.
Btw, pl tell me whether you can actually believe that some body sitting some where is controlling your thoughts and actions? I had travelled many times by Air and it is really a hopeless situation if something happens mid-air but never thought that an unknown power is protecting. I had always believed in the air-worthiness of the aircraft and skill of the pilot.
RE:Religions
by Seshadri on Sep 20, 2007 04:09 PM Permalink
The philosophy of the vedic culture treats "Atman" or the part of the "Para Brahmam" to be manifest in every creature in this universe... morever it even extends it to the inanimate!
RE:RE:Religions
by JGN on Sep 20, 2007 04:20 PM Permalink
Atheism teaches man to endeavor constantly to better his own condition and that of all of his fellowmen, to make his children wiser and happier; it supplies the powerful urge to add something new to the knowledge of mankind. And all this, not in the vain hope of being rewarded in another world, but from a pure sense of duty as a citizen of nature, as a patriot of the planet on which he dwells. This is no cold and cheerless philosophy; it is an elevating and ennobling ideal which may console him in his afflictions and teach him how to live and how to die. It is a self-reliant philosophy that makes a man intellectually free, and this mental emancipation allows him to face the world without fear of ghosts and gods. It relates solely to facts, while theism resorts to opinions that are grounded only upon emotionalism. Joseph Lewis has well noted that, "Atheism does not believe that man's mission on earth is to love and glorify God, but it does believe in living this life so that when you pass on, the world will be better for your having lived - Dr. D.M. Brooks
Indeed, history, down to the present day, is a melancholy record of the horrors which can attend religion: human sacrifice, and, in particular, the slaughter of children, cannibalism, sensual orgies, abject superstition, hatred as between races, the maintenance of degrading customs, hysteria, bigotry, can all be laid at it's charge. Religion is the last refuge of human savagery - Alfred North Whitehead
