India has hardly given anything to Iran compared to the way the US is arming Pakistan in the name of a front line ally and all that crap now ...and earlier under some pretext... So someone in the Indian Govt needs to point this out to the senators....
While I am all for India's sovereignty and I have expressed my views on this, can someone please explain to me what Indianness do we have left at all? Aren't we already sold?
1. We dress like Americans, talk in American accent, spell like Americans (forgetting what Oxford dictionary ever taught us).. 2. We eat American junk food, stuff that no health-conscious American ever touches. 3. Our films are aped from the West.. Our multi-billion dollar industry does not have the capacity to come with a single original storyline or music(except for remakes of the likes of Mughal-E-Azam)..Every single Bollywood script has a Hollywood predecessor. 4. We cannot think beyond "Indian idol" or "Kaun banega Crorepati" (how original!) to name a reality show, whose content mimics their US predecessors (we forget that we did not get Lata ji, Kishoreda or Rafi saab from reality shows) 5. Our directors and actors have to dress in Western outfit to walk the red carpet in Oscar and Cannes shows (Westerners are wise-they see through this and appreciate "substance".. That is why the only Indian who ever got the Oscar got it from his nursing home bed in Calcutta)
6. Our toppers are no longer destined to become Dr. Kalam or Dr. Meghnad Saha..All of us are destined to work US hours "attending" to calls by our US consumers and earn more in 1 year than what Kalam earned in his lifetime...
We have given up to destiny and we are just swimming with the tide. Jai Hind! Mera bharat mahaan!
RE:Mera bharat mahaan
by Anurag Shrivastava on Sep 07, 2007 11:34 AM Permalink
We also use American inventions like computers , internet , TV , Aeroplanes , Nylon , Vaccines, medicines, weapons. I can't think of ANYTHING in my daily life including my toiler seat which is not American in origin......
RE:Mera bharat mahaan
by Lalatendu Deo on Sep 07, 2007 12:10 PM Permalink
We did not get these by wagging our tail. We did not beg either.
The US is a mean country, and the situation they are in have made them so. If we submit to their Whims and Fancy, we shall have no way to continue our independent Foreign Policy. They will start interfering in our internal affairs as well.
We can get all these and more by continuing the way we are going now. It is all fine. And may be some fine tuning is required here and there. But dumping all these only to chose a certainly dark future, is a big mistake we deliberate will do from which there will not be no coming back.
they are the most devious of the lot ....most opportunist ...india shd not give any leeway to US ...India shd endeavour to hav better relations with its neighbours ...particularly with Iran, middle-east and Asean group ...these countries can help india grow economically ...shdn't give much importance to US which is a failing state and now trying to save its economy by hook & crook
Yes, US not interested in no one but herself. And we should maintain safe distance.
I do not understand why our people are so much obsessed with the US. It should be our interest which should govern our decisions and not on those hypothesis that most of the postings put forth over here.
RE:US is not a friend
by Anurag Shrivastava on Sep 07, 2007 10:57 AM Permalink
failing state ???? almost all innovations and ideas even today come from US. Other nations including Asian Tigers are just copycats or backend manufacturers for US. And do not forget US practically "owns" 40% of world's oil by having its troops occupy Saudi Arabia and Iraq - which is of course the main point of enemity with the Shiekh hiding in the cases of Tora Bora. Iran has bought for itself a lot of misery for future. Wait and watch the match.
RE:RE:US is not a friend
by Lalatendu Deo on Sep 07, 2007 11:06 AM Permalink
That does not mean we submit ourselves to the US. Do you think US will give us oil from Saudi Arabia or Iraq? You will see them leaving Iraq soon. And it would not be far when a nutral government take over in Iraq.
Any way, US will never be able to tell any country to stop supplying any thing other than the nuke.
RE:US is not a friend
by Anurag Shrivastava on Sep 07, 2007 11:15 AM Permalink
Its not gonna leave Iraq soon - whether Barrack or Billary come to power. No US President will have the courage to handover these assets on a platter to Iran ( US moves out - Iran moves in ). In fact - there are enough noises in US which have asked for current Iraq PM Maliki's removal - to be replaced by more Pro US strongman. This government will not last 10 minutes without US soldiers protecting it. Maliki and his cabinet will be vapourised by Alqaeda backed Sunnies even before he says - help ! Its best to align oneself which is the strongest from a position of strength. And India is strong now - not what it was before 1990.
RE:US is not a friend
by Lalatendu Deo on Sep 07, 2007 11:44 AM Permalink
We are not going to get a position of strength by toeing the lines of the US. Whether we get gas from Iran or from Russia, that is we to decide. And fainting off when two senators writing to their Secretary of State, similar to two of our MPs writing to Parnab Mukharjee, is not done.
No we will never gain any thing, by toeing the line. Do you think, Anurag, the US will supply those technology, denial of which we are fearing of, by being a faithful ally. Is there any country that benefited this way?
There is none. Not even the UK.
It certainly is in the interest of the US if we stop going ahead with the Iran-India Pipeline. But is it our interest to do so? Whether we would be benefited anyway by doing so? No, we will have a big problem ahead if we do not go for securing our future needs.
We have a good mechanism to study which is better for us. Let it not be decided by any Tom or Dick, having a white skin.
RE:US is not a friend
by Lalatendu Deo on Sep 07, 2007 12:23 PM Permalink
Yes, Anurag, we have to deal with Pakistan as well. But Pakistan will religiously protect the pipeline as it would be to their benefit to do so. Iran will also do likewise. After all, they are also going to invest their man and machine there.
The Pipeline business will remain purely economic and its up keep will be benefiting perennially to both those countries. Rather India is Blackmailing in a way to both of them. After all if India do not consume the Gas, it will go waste as there will be no one to consume it. And Pakis are getting money for doing nothing.
RE:US is not a friend
by Anurag Shrivastava on Sep 07, 2007 11:52 AM Permalink
India-Iran pipeline goes through Pakistan. Iran will use this to leverage and interfere in religious activities including Madrasas and funding anti-national parties like the Samajwadi Party.
I want to react very strongly to your opinion about nuclear deal.I'd guess you havent read the text of nuke deal and Manmohan singh's team have done a very good job though not the best.
Nuke deal will be with NSG-international community and not just US. US was just a good starting/entry point. Infact, you'll observe that we'll be buying most of the uranium from France, Russia & Aus and not US. France & Russia are already supplying us with nuclear material but in very limited amounts. Now, to talk about BARC & AEC, they are also doing decent job though not a very good job. BARC & AEC require "fuel" -- you cant create fuel!!!.. However, the alternative is to use thorium. most importantly, you need nuclear fuel until our scientists get ready with the thorium based reactor. It requires good amount of research and you should applaud the scientists work till now given that India was under sanctions for the past 30 years.. And this nuclear deal will help remove that sanctions and expedite research on thorium based reactor.
And, I understand emotional comments like "selling country" etc.... That is not at all true. There is nothing being sold except "compromise that IAEA might doing inspections of our civilian nuclear facilities"
US's interests are obvious: a) Increased oil consumption by India,China leads to higher oil prices. b) Containing china in this region c) It can have ensured that Indian nuclear program is more transparent that it was earlier.
RE:To all those who are against Nuke deal
by kile leax on Sep 07, 2007 10:58 AM Permalink
It sounds like you could be the successor to the Hon. Abdul Kalaam.
RE:To all those who are against Nuke deal
by Sugata Ray on Sep 07, 2007 11:02 AM Permalink
Probably a little more knowlwdge is necessary. Firstly, the deal is going to provide a maximum output of 20,000 MW of power which is 7% of India's requirement. On the other hand DAE, India confirms that they are capable of producing much more than this in long run and they do not need any technological or infrastructural supports other than only Uranium fuel. Infact, Indian Government has started Uranium mining at many places in India, mainly Jharkhand, and committed a sum of nearly 4,000 crore towards this purpose. So, clearly just from the energy point of view this deal is not of central importance. We are utterly misguided here. Secondly, it is true that US is just an entry but a deal with US doesn't automatically ensure a nod from NSG and India has to separately ask for permission from NSG which is certainly unsure (see Aussie response). Thirdly, US certainly wants to put pressure on India to align with them. During the discussion in their senate, there was a direct amendment which wanted India to isolate itself from Iran to get this deal. But, later this was removed and the HYDE act was proposed to serve the same purpose through the President of USA. However, India eventually voted twice against Iran during this period in IAEA. The current news is very consistent with these attempts. Somehow, we hate to be associated with China but feel glad to do the same with USA which has the nastiest democratic records historically worldwide! Aren't we surprized or ashamed?
RE:To all those who are against Nuke deal
by Aftab on Sep 07, 2007 10:34 AM Permalink
In all fairness the 123 dael is in the larger interest of India and we should not abandon this agreement under pressure from BJP or left parties.Even those political parties have not been able to find major fault.
BJP has a habit of making many contradictory statements to suit their political ends and this is the reason why the statement of Yashwant Sinha and LK Advani contradicts each other. They will use the two contradictory statements as per their convenience.
Left parties have ideological difference with a capitalistic regime. It is their birth right to have an opinion.The concern that India's Foreign policy will be affected is true to some extent. But have we not shifted from Non aligned to pro Russia and then Pro Free market policies in the last two decades.India has of course went against its stated positions on couple of occassions (Iraq & Iran issues).
However, We have to choose whether we should take the position that suits us best or be adament on our stand and face isolation on issues where the world opinion is different from us.If we choose to stand by our opinion and disregard the world opinion then we stand to loose a lot and India can not afford this at this juncture. We do not have such a strong economy.
Despite all these India has refused to send army personnel to Iraq and this shows that we can make some compromise but can not abandon our policies.
RE:To all those who are against Nuke deal
by rajagopalan athreya on Sep 07, 2007 10:36 AM Permalink
As such the agreement is fine but the same should be read along with the Hyde Act which is the concern...I do not think this is unmanageable..It is just that our Parliament also has to pass a legislation circumventing the Hyde Act..Every Country has the right to protect its right..So does USA and so do US...One should also understand that the cost of nuclear power is atleast 4 times costlier to our present cost..NLC, being the power generator at the lowest cost in the World..Nevertheless we need to go ahead with this to get access to Technology...
RE:To all those who are against Nuke deal
by A G on Sep 07, 2007 10:54 AM Permalink
Wud love to believe all this. Question is why does Mannu not address the concerns raised by others who also have India's concerns close to their heart, thrash issues which have been raised by giving thought thru answers and not by giving evasive replies, include members from all parties and intellectuals into the committee. Given the sordid events carried out by Congress, latest being the way, they released Quatrocchi money and then the man himself, this govt has no credibility. Thruout this sad incidents, Mannu kept telling the nation that he has no role in it !! How do you believe statements from such a man ? Also, if as he says that the entire negotiation for the deal was started by the BJP, why is he not honest enough to give some credit to them instead of trying to keep them out of the loop ?
