Modi is not a Good Person.Even i used to think highly of him..But i have realised after going through the net that his kinda Hindutva does'nt makes sense. It only Creates Hatred among the various Communities.. Modi has nothing to do with Hindutva. He showed his true colours when he supported a leader like LK Advani for his remarks on Jinnah. The RSS and the Sangh Parivar had no objections to Advani visiting (Mohammad Ali) Jinnah's mausoleum and paying him tributes. But calling Jinnah secular and a nationalist was unacceptable. Everyone in the Sangh felt outraged but Modi alone supported him. In fact, people like Modi have nothing to do with Hindus or Muslims. They are opportunists.
RE:Modi is an Opportunists!!
by Arjun Periyar on Oct 20, 2007 04:00 PM Permalink
Dear Ismail, Don't get so much panic about Modi. What is your stand on Advani's remarks on Jinnah?
Dear JGN, I just want to share a thought with you. After studying religous books from various religions, I have come to conclusion that Indian Constitution is the best as far as the freedom, human rights, equlity, etc. are concerned. Most of our social problems will be solved if all Indian people give highest status to our constitution as that of given to various religous books like Manusmriti, Quran, Bible, etc. Thsi is due to the following reasons. 1. The constitution is bound by the Indian nationality only & is equal to all castes & religions. 2. Though it is bound by Indian nationality, it doesn't propagate hatred for other nationals. 3. The constitution can be reformed & upgraded as it is written by human beings for human beings. 4. The constitution talks about how to live in India in the existing life & doesn't assure or guide anything about getting a place in the Heaven or Hell after the death. Hence it is realistic. 5. An independednt learned judiciary system can always scrutinise the constitition which is in sharp contrast with the illiterate religious leaders giving judgements based upon the things written many centuries before. 6. As it is written by a bunch of learned people, there is no possibility of idolising the GOD or Profet or the book itself! Religous fanatics are going to be the biggest obstacle in the growth of the country in the next two decades. Religous fanatics can be sidelined effectively from our path towards progress by doing this.
RE:Attn JGN
by Anand YNI on Oct 19, 2007 03:40 PM Permalink
Dear Arjun, JGN and Rehana,
Your comments are interesting.
I wish you had restricted yourselves to the point, that is the Constitution of India instead of bringing into picture other items such as Gulliver's Travels, Aesop's Fables, Panchatantra or Mulla Naziruddin Stories & other religious books. Since we are on the topic, without meaning anything bad (or good) to anyone, let me make my points here:
A person's knowledge is as much as or less than what he acquires during his lifetime. Unless one has read or understood the meaning of scriptures or the stories under discussion, one really can not comment on them. For example, how many of you have read the great Srimad Bhagavadgita, esp chapters 2, 3, 4 & 14 to 18? In chapter 2, the Lord describes the qualities of a person with unwavering mind. In chapter 16, the Lord describes the qualities of a person with demoniac qualities. The living example of such a person (there are many) is the great HDD Gowda. For them, Constitution has no meaning. Self interest in the only thing they are interested in. Mind you, such qualities were described 1000s of years ago by the wise people with vision. Aesop's fables are an easy way to understand what life is. Similarly Panchatantra stories give us the gist of how to conduct in life. If one can follow the gist of these fables, we do not need any constitution!!
Constitution is nothing but gist of all these. It is better to restrict to what you uphold instead of looking down upon others.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 19, 2007 04:23 PM Permalink
Dear Anand, you have misunderstood the context in which I had referred to those books. We do not tell anybody that such and such things are written in Gulliver's Travels, Aesop's Fables, Panchatantra or Mulla Naziruddin Stories and are therefore gospel truths. What I meant was that there is no need to treat the so-called holy books also more seriously.
I have read the complete Mahabharata (Srimad Bhagavadgita is a part of the same). It contains some universal truth but is not a guide for conducting every day life for all times to come. If we treat the same as more than good advice, we also fall into the dogmas of Semitic religions (they consider Torah, Bible and Koran as revealed by the Almighty and irrefutable).
The Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc are epics containing moral stories. They are meant for refining the reader's character. A good portion of Mahabharata contains stories (sub-plots) narrated by the well-wishers visiting the Pandavas to lighten their suffering in exile and make them understand that many others also suffered like them earlier (e.g. story of Nala & Damayanti) and as such they should not lose heart.
The Author of Mahabharata was partial to one family. It is a debateable point as to whether the Pandavas or the Kauravas had the right to inherit the throne. The Pandavas were not sons of Pandus whereas the Kauravas were the sons of Dritarashtra (albight thru the division of the foetus by Ved Vyas).
RE:RE:Attn JGN
by Anand YNI on Oct 19, 2007 09:21 PM Permalink
Dear JGN,
How nice of you for beeing very polite and yet making your point! Most of what you have written is correct and I agree with you. However, if one strictly follows the principles in toto of what is written is for eg, Srimad Bhagavadgita, all the problems faced by the world is likely to alleviate. Again, it is my opinion. As already explained, it for each individual to interpret the meanings of the scriptures and adopt the same for the betterment of the society instead of the pointless mudslinging that most are doing.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 04:12 PM Permalink
Dear Arjun Periyar, I totally agree with you. The Constitution of India, is one of the most progressive document and guarantees equality to all irrespective caste, creed, colour or religion. Such divisions are artificial and have no relevance in today's world driven by science and technology. Even if we are not able to help others, we should not create any problem for them and certainly should not preach hatred. All the best.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 04:51 PM Permalink
Dear Arjun, pl see the following link:
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/aft.htm
I have not explored the same completely but seems to be a site promoting scientific temperament and free of religious dogmas. You can write to me at JGN190@rediffmial.com
RE:Attn JGN
by Rehana Khan on Oct 18, 2007 02:44 PM Permalink
Good thoughts! Constitution is already having the supreme status in the judiciary & parliament. But replacement of religious books by constitution looks impossible.
RE:RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 04:22 PM Permalink
Dear Rehana Khan, we can certainly restrict our religious beliefs to our homes and interact with the members of other communities in a secular manner. The so-called holy books are creations of surrealistic visionaries and are no more serious than Gulliver's Travels, Aesop's Fables, Panchatantra or Mulla Naziruddin Stories! The religions and gods are inventions of vested interests to further their selfish motives.
RE:Attn JGN
by Rehana Khan on Oct 18, 2007 05:42 PM Permalink
Dear JGN, I think you are talking ahead of time. What you are saying sounds theorotically correct but is very difficult to make understand to the common people & religious leaders. Perhaps you can think like this because you might have grown up in the free enviornment. But though I have grown-up in an educated family, what I am seeing since my childhood is a very strong grip of the religion over the society. I think in all the religions the most opressed class is the female. Unless girls & women in the society are educated, it will not be possible to release the grip of the religion over the society. I still wonder why all religions have been founded by men only! No religion is talking about equal status of male & female. Indian constitution is superior to all religions in this aspect.
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 07:02 PM Permalink
Dear Rehana Khan, there is no reason why the followers of all religions cannot co-exist peacefully in India when an orthodox country like Saudi Arabia, following Wahabi Islam allows Hindus, Christians, etc to work in their country.
The real strength of our country is harmony in variety. There are only a handful of people who harbour any hatred for the followers of other religions. This is an exception rather than a rule.
As you hv mentioned earlier, the Godhra incident was really despicable but we have learn a lesson from the same and move forward. I was at Vatva in Ahmedabad a day before the incident for evaluation of a factory owned by a Muslim and my report was sent to our H.O. after the tragic event. Still I had recommended purchase of materials from them and had called up the owner of the factory to enquire about his welfare.
I fully agree with you that the females are supressed in all religions. Before the French Revolution, the concept of equality was unheard of. As the religions were founded by men and they had a notion that the females of the species are meant for their enjoyment, equality was not allowed (rather prescribed supression in the name of non-existent gods!) Education of girls is very important as shaping the future generation is in their hands. An old Tamil song roughly translates to "every child is good at birth, but it is the upbringing by his mother which makes him good or bad"
RE:Attn JGN
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 07:43 PM Permalink
Dear Rehana Khan, there is a strong grip of clergy on the followers of Semitic religions (Christianity, Islam & Jew). They can force the members of their community into submission at the threat of social boycott (and even denying permission to bury the dead). In hinduism, we don't have to worry about such things as no body can issue an edict (fatwa) nor are we bound by something written in a book hundreds of years ago. We also have the freedom to believe in any god/gods or not to believe also.
RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 04:38 PM Permalink
Mr. Ismail Sayyed, why have you created another fake ID? When it comes to denying Visa to Mr. Modi, you appreciate the USA. Do you know that it is the same USA which is crushing your co-religionists in the West Asia? Shall we appreciate that also? And more importantly Saudi Arabia is their partner in the West Asia. Even Paknistan is providing them all assistance in fighting against Afganistan! The pain of loss of human life is same every where -whether in USA, India, West Asia or any other part of the world.
Pl remember, countries like USA have no permanent enemies but only permanent interests. The same USA was against India during the 1971 war and had even tried to move their Seventh Fleet to Bay of Bengal to participate in war against our Country. If I remember correct, it was the timely action of Egypt (by denying permission to Seventh Fleet to navigate thru Suez Canal) that prevented US from attacking out Country.
RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by Mohammed Kureshi on Oct 18, 2007 05:59 PM Permalink
The problem with our brother Ismail is that he is having hatred of other religions. Every indian has a right to decide whehter Modi is good or bad. But we should not forget our integrity to the nation when targetting our own citizen. So Mr. Ismail do dot become too happy & express your joy only because US has rejected VISA to Modi. US is a very selfish state which does not take into account anybody's religion or nationality while safeguarding its own interests. People like you are responsible for creating mistrust about Islam in India.
RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 07:12 PM Permalink
Dear Kureshi, those who harbour hatred against the followers of other religions forget that we are followers of different religions by the accident of birth. If I had born into a Muslim family, probably I also might have been a devout muslim. The Creator (if there is any) has made humanbeings into males and females only. HE has not created any religion nor asked us to follow any particular religion. It was only vested interests that created the artificial divisions based on caste, creed, colour and religion. Why should we follow the same in 21st century when we know that efforts of human beings are behind every progress that we have made?
RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by Harish pandey on Oct 19, 2007 12:48 PM Permalink
And yes you Bongs are the most traitorus people in the country most of you are China's pimps. Put your own house in order and then lecture us Gujus you fifth column.
RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by Arjun Periyar on Oct 18, 2007 01:16 PM Permalink
Does Modi require certificate from US to become PM of India? What rubbish you are talking man? Don't take US help to nail down Modi. I can understand your political differences with Modi & RSS, but this does not mean that we should feel proud of US for denying VISA to Modi who is chif minister of a state in Gujarat!! Because of such divisive foolish mentality only our country was ruled by the invadors for past many centuries!!
RE:RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by Rehana Khan on Oct 18, 2007 01:14 PM Permalink
I do not want to into politics while judging Modi. But since I belong to the industrial family, I can definitely say that Modi is the best chief minister for the industries in Gujarat. I do not support communal politics from anybody, but it is high time now for the common man to draw a line between religion & politics. Whatever happen in Gujarat in 2002 was worst, but now we should look into future & stop rhetoric of Modi being a terrorist.
RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by Rehana Khan on Oct 18, 2007 01:44 PM Permalink
I like your straightforward attitude in proposing for marriage. You seem to be very desperate for the marriage as you are proposing to an unknown person like me. Please take help of your parents in finding a suitable bride for you. I am still studying & there is no thought of marriage for the next 202 years.
RE:Modi is a Terrorist!!
by on Oct 19, 2007 11:39 AM Permalink
AAAP KE VICHAAAR BAHUT ACCHE HAI AUR YOU AE THE LIGHT OF THE MANY WOMEN OF YOUR COMMUNITY ....... BE BOLD AND ALWAYS THINK WELL I AM SURE YOU WILL BE ONE DAY GREAT PERSONALITY GOOD LUCK TO YOU O MUSLIM SISTER ...........
RE:Modi is a Born Terrorist!!
by Arjun Periyar on Oct 18, 2007 12:54 PM Permalink
Does Modi require certificate from US to become PM of India? What rubbish you are talking man? Don't take US help to nail down Modi. I can understand your political differences with Modi & RSS, but this does not mean that we should feel proud of US for denying VISA to Modi who is chif minister of a state in Gujarat!! Because of such divisive foolish mentality only our country was ruled by the invadors for past many centuries!!
RE:Modi is a Born Terrorist!!
by Sahadevan KK on Oct 18, 2007 12:59 PM Permalink
Gujarat palace is cracking down... Three communist forts are built with strong black stones.... RSS goons are still write malicious things about the Left.
RE:RE:Modi is a Born Terrorist!!
by on Oct 19, 2007 11:41 AM Permalink
YOU MALAYALI COWARD ........ GUJARAT IS HINDUISM BEST PLAVE AND NOT COWARDS LIKE YOU MALLUS WHO HAVE GIVEN THE COMMUNISTS STATE ON PLATTER .....
RE:Modi is a Born Terrorist!!
by on Oct 18, 2007 01:09 PM Permalink
I do not want to into politics while judging Modi. But since I belong to the industrial family, I can definitely say that Modi is the best chief minister for the industries in Gujarat. I do not support communal politics from anybody, but it is high time now for the common man to draw a line between religion & politics. Whatever happen in Gujarat in 2002 was worst, but now we should look into future & stop rhetoric of Modi being a terrorist.
In these Forums,lots of People are posing as something else & writing hate messages against various religions.I think India have to be vigilant against these divisive forces who are hypocrites & cowards.Why anyone have to pose as a member of other faith & say bad thing about his faith.What is the motive.These people are only trying to create rifts between different communities.so beware of these elements & Ignore them.
RE:Beware!!
by K on Oct 18, 2007 01:43 AM Permalink
I read one of your comment where a question is asked about, "What is the First Word of Quran?". I am curious to ask something here. Do you memorise every word in Quran by heart? The way students learn multiplication tables? Dont you think its message that has more importance than words and sequence in which it is expressed?
RE:Beware!!
by JGN on Oct 18, 2007 05:18 PM Permalink
Mr.Ismail Sayyed, I know the complete Sura of The Koran (not only first world). Will it make me a muslim?
RE:RE:Beware!!
by K on Oct 18, 2007 08:46 PM Permalink
What about the MESSAGE? No wonder then! Inspite of having vast amounts of oil reserves you have to beg in front of Western democracies to build oil wells for you. Your kingdom begs in front of Indian democracy to build roads for you. You beg in front of Japan to build fuel efficient cars for you. You cant do it on your own. Could you? Do you see now why you people lack technologically?
RE:RE:Beware!!
by Ismail Sayyed on Oct 18, 2007 09:18 AM Permalink
See I am not attacking individual relegion. But all I am saying is everybody thinks that his way to GOD is correct. Its like a BIG JIGSAW played by a small child. The smarted find the way fast, others will be ina riddle for long time. The riddle is their improper faith
RE:RE:RE:Beware!!
by Sahadevan KK on Oct 23, 2007 12:49 PM Permalink
Modi gets the 'fire' and BJP gets the brickbats throughout India, according to they gave to the people of Gujarat; the Left gets mass support, what they gave to the people of Bengal for last 30 years.
Read my blog on http://sahadevan.wordpress.com/ http://www.geocities.com/kksahadevan/
People should convert over the period of time. Everyone should go forward not backward into the stone age. Our forefathers worship animals and idols due to lack of knowledge. Let us not follow that. Let us not insult God by equating Him to snakes and monkeys
RE:RE:It's Better to Convert!!
by Anand YNI on Oct 19, 2007 04:01 PM Permalink
Dear Tataghat,
How sad!! You need to understand the basics before you talk about the animals being equated with God. God is above everything and is not bothered about what we utter. Only you think that he is being insulted. It is Lord Krishna who told Arjuna (you may call it a mere story, but it does not matter) that "He who sees me everywhere, will see me in everything (living and non-living)". You may not be an idolator (I could not care about your religion) but our forefathers made these rules of worshipping animals and idols only because they wanted us respect every living being on this earth which is the creation of God (or nature if you like to call). Why people throng places like Tirupathi, Madurai, Varanasi, Vatican or Mecca? They have some special attraction in them that compels several people to visit these places again and again. These people say that there is some divine power attached to these places. If they think so, let them think. As long as you & I are not bothered by these people, why should we comment adversely about and hurt their feelings? The best policy is "Speak Truth, Speak what is pleasant; Do not speak what is untrue nor what is not pleasant". This way all of us can air our opinions without hurting others' feelings. Denigration of others' religious beliefs should never be done. If you appreciate it I feel that my comments have served some purpose. Thanks
RE:It's Better to Convert!!
by Arjun Periyar on Oct 17, 2007 04:58 PM Permalink
Dear Mukherjee, 1. First of all have courage to show your correct identity. Let the search for true worship begin by your true name. 2. As you have rightly mentioned, we have come to the civilized society from the stone age. So stop thinking of killing other people on the name of religion/God. 3. As a part of member of this civilized society, learn to love this beautiful world created by the God. Don't think of booking a place in the Heaven by turning this world into Hell. 4. The concept of God & hence religion has been developed from the fear of the unknown. Remove this fear from your mind, then there will be no need of convert from one religion to the other. 5. There is no harm in equating God with snake or monkey as they are also created by the God. But keep in mind that killing the human beings on the name of the God is much more harmful.
RE:It's Better to Convert!!
by Tataghata Mukherjee on Oct 17, 2007 05:20 PM Permalink
So you consider yourself as a Member of Civilized Society,do u know that in our society 50% of the population are considered Untouchables..I am talking about Shudras..
RE:It's Better to Convert!!
by Arjun Periyar on Oct 17, 2007 05:47 PM Permalink
I myself belong to lower caste Hindu. But let me tell you that in the present time Caste system has been obsolete. This has happened due to the reforms that took place in Hindu religion. Now some sections of the society are making agitation for considering their community as Shudra (consider the latest agitation in Rajasthan). The real problem begins if the religion does not accept the reforms. But let me tell you that when the cast system was at its peak, even at that time the shudras had right to exist & nobody slaughtered them because of their caste.
RE:It's Better to Convert!!
by JGN on Oct 17, 2007 06:34 PM Permalink
Dear Arjun Periyar, those who are harping on such trivial things are living in the past. Untouchability, etc existed in pre-independence India. Our Constitution guarantees equal rights to every one irrespective of caste, creed, colour or religion.
Caste system exists even in Islam and Christianity and in some other countries also. It is a myth that the converted Christians and Muslims were treated as equals. If such was the case, there would not have been any Dalits in India (or atleast in North India where the Muslims ruled for over 500 years).
Our Country has made tremendous progress after independence (especially after economic liberalisation of the 90s). If the same trend continues, we will become a developed country like USA or UK in another two decades.
The real problems we face today are lack of education and exployment opportunities. It is mostly people who lack financial security who resort to religious dogmas to escape from day to day drudgery.
RE:TO ISMAIL
by Ismail Sayyed on Oct 17, 2007 12:37 PM Permalink
Yesterday I remember u said some very vulgar things about our Prophet..No muslim can say that.. I m not saying muslims are Perfect.It is true that there are Muslims who cheat, bribe and whose personal character is indeed disappointing when judged by the standard of Islam. There are black sheep in every community, and the Muslim community has theirs. It is important to bear in mind though, that display of such low ethical standards by some Muslims is a result of not following the teachings of Islam.
