There is a fundamental difference between Homi Bhabha's policy of growing science and the policy of importing science. The process of growing science does not involve a jump from the base level to the most advanced aspects without undertaking the intermediate trial and error methods. Cutting edge technology is not given by any state that acquires it for the obvious reason that in the present day, the technology edge sets nations apart. The technology that would be handed over, therefore, will be second- or third-rate.
RE:Rediff stop this nonsence please.... u r not smarter than Homi baba
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 03:36 AM Permalink
. Homi Bhabha, Self-reliance, Khadi, Small scale Industries etc, are no longer sufficient to help a rapidly growing India. Bhabhas work has taken us far and he is among my heroes but we need to take the second big jump now. 2. We cannot afford to go with trial and error and try to reinvent the wheel. Even with the LCA we took help for the airframe from russia and germany, composites from USA, kaveri engine testing from russia, engine redesign from pratt and whitney usa, avionics from israel and france. Now prototypes are using GE 404 engines. 3. Anyone or atleast most countries will give you cutting edge technology as long as you are willing to pay the price. If we are poor we can never pay the right price. Tata and Mittal have bought companies with latest technology by paying the price. Even bomb, rocket and missile technology is easily crossing borders. 4. It is all about deals, we should be able to deal with Americans, Russians or even Chinese in a business like manner and not doubt our own strength.
USA is all set to sell india a deal worth minimum $200 to $300 billion dollors....This will ensure that India will never grow for next 100 years..... now let us have a good guess.. so how much would have US paid Italian Sonia to make Indian tax payers pay this huge amount. ?
RE:Let us make a good guess....... I want answers
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 03:58 AM Permalink
You bring about an Excellent point. I am glad we are talking numbers here and not slavery. I am not doubting the number here. It may infact turn out to be more, and I wish it will be more for these reasons. 1. We will not be giving that money away. It will be buying planes, fighter jets, heavy lift helicopters, nuclear plants, space technology and such that should boost our economy. 2. We will be buying these from Russians or Europeans anyway. 3. We spent billions buying MIGs and Sukhois from Russians. Now can we build our own fighter aircraft or jet engine? The russians have not given us anything for free either. 4. If we are open, other will be open to us. We let LAFARGE of france buy our cement companies, and they let Mittal buy Arcelor steel. We cannot be in a shell anymore. 5. After 10 years when we look back, the 200 or 300 billion will look like peanuts, because we will have more electricity and a strong economy. 6. Indians may be owning land rover, jaguar, and become powerful global corporations. All we are doing here is moving 200-300 billion dollars from the russian/european account to the american account. The only question is whether it is worth pissing the russians off and what the consequences will be.
I don't understand the left party logic behind all this. They say they do not have any confidence in US. No one does!! but its not their daughter's marriage. Its a deal and can be scrapped anytime if it doesn't work out well.
The other reason about indigenously developing the technology..I believe that there is no reason to re-invent the wheel and waste time rather get the technology and put resources to get better at it.
We need to learn to grab opportunities with both hand and there is nothing wrong in being opportunistic. China and pakistan are against this deal..that itself signifies that this deal is beneficial for us.
RE:we should give it a shot!
by Pramod V on Oct 16, 2007 03:32 AM Permalink
it is not girlfriend - boyfriend kind of relation.... to say 'YES' now and later say 'NO'.
btw, China is not against the deal.... China understands 'indian Mind'. It is just tempting India to jump in. it will ensure that India is not a compitator to China in future...
Curretn warm Indo-US relationship is because of excellent ground breaking work by BJP. BJP and Congress have special responsibility because of their nation wide following. Neither of the m is confined within the borders of Kerala and West Bengal.
At the moment BJP does not have a defined powerful leader who can decide on this.
Even if they do, they are not sure whether Indian public will give them any credit for the move, in terms of vote. So they wouldnt want to take an unnecessary risk !!!
RE:Why BJP cant !!
by r patil on Oct 16, 2007 06:49 AM Permalink
Even if does still congress will not go ahead of the deal because commies are going to take out support to the government and force election on India,more than BJP it is congress and its allies DMK,NCP,RJD who are hell scared of elections,because they are surre to loose them.
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by Milind on Oct 16, 2007 02:35 AM Permalink
The writer is former Chief of Institue of defence studies & Analysis, a person any Indian govt. consults from time to time on defence matters !!! And you accuse him of being a paid agent??
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by Pramod V on Oct 16, 2007 03:14 AM Permalink
I dont know who this writer is but here is the fact. ....
There is a fundamental difference between Homi Bhabha's policy of growing science and the policy of importing science. The process of growing science does not involve a jump from the base level to the most advanced aspects without undertaking the intermediate trial and error methods. Cutting edge technology is not given by any state that acquires it for the obvious reason that in the present day, the technology edge sets nations apart. The technology that would be handed over, therefore, will be second- or third-rate.
RE:RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 03:32 AM Permalink
1. Homi Bhabha, Self-reliance, Khadi, Small scale Industries etc, are no longer sufficient to help a rapidly growing India. Bhabhas work has taken us far and he is among my heroes but we need to take the second big jump now. 2. We cannot afford to go with trial and error and try to reinvent the wheel. Even with the LCA we took help for the airframe from russia and germany, composites from USA, kaveri engine testing from russia, engine redesign from pratt and whitney usa, avionics from israel and france. Now prototypes are using GE 404 engines. 3. Anyone or atleast most countries will give you cutting edge technology as long as you are willing to pay the price. If we are poor we can never pay the right price. Tata and Mittal have bought companies with latest technology by paying the price. Even bomb, rocket and missile technology is easily crossing borders. 4. It is all about deals, we should be able to deal with Americans, Russians or even Chinese in a business like manner and not doubt our own strength.
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by A Sriv on Oct 16, 2007 02:42 AM Permalink
When we have anti-indians and communists like you, we don't need enemies... It is sad to see such a great deal going.
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by Sandipan chakraborty on Oct 16, 2007 02:45 AM Permalink
am i a commi..hahaha...don't try 2 act smart slave..i am not..but i have very out of the box thinking..which some of u guyz will never understand or not willing to understand..
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by A Sriv on Oct 16, 2007 03:04 AM Permalink
Who is a slave...stop issue all these irrelevant statements, what is slavery got to do with this. We are power hungry and this would have given us that. We need to provide electricity to 1.2 billion people. This technology makes it easier and convenient and cleaner. 70% of France's energy comes from nuclear power. But your thought process has to do with politics.. anti america stance. Therefore you don't have the vision...sorry keep living in your false pride.
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by angshuman dutta on Oct 16, 2007 02:54 AM Permalink
please come back inside the box. out of box thinking is for commies my pal. all of my life I had to endure it so dont give those excuse. these commies are hypocrite, will tell all the lies in the world to grab power then they will kill butcher do anything to stay there until they blown out of their chairs. so please think what is good for INDIA and not out of the box.
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 02:39 AM Permalink
Would it not be wonderful to be slaves of the chinese? No Deal is terrific. Pakistanis would make very nice masters too. Let us all rise in chorus - Jai China! Jai Pakistan.
RE:RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by Pramod V on Oct 16, 2007 03:15 AM Permalink
r u saying its better to be a slave to US than china and pakis?
RE:RE:RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 03:18 AM Permalink
My apologies again, its not about slavery but about deal making and achieving our goals.
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by Sandipan chakraborty on Oct 16, 2007 02:42 AM Permalink
why do u bring in China and Pak..when u wnat to be a US slave..serious slave attitude..so if i speak against US i am china pak slave is it?..either ur a birdbrain or slavish or Evil minded..nothing else.
RE:NO DEAL.... NO SLAVARY ... HELP INDIA
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 03:15 AM Permalink
My apologies if I offended anyone by doubting their patriotism. Being against the US does NOT mean supporting China or Pak, so I am sorry. But getting to the point. India should realize that it is strong enough to ally with the US, and derive economic and strategic benefits while maintaining an independent foreign policy. We may have to kiss up to the US and keep them in good humor for a couple of years. Once we become strong like China, we can do what the hell we please. We have to realize that we are only on the threshold of economic development and are not fully developed. We have to take every bit of opportunity to reach our goal. India will need to learn to strike many more deals like this maybe even with China to reach the top. In summary, the Nuclear DEAL does NOT mean we are slaves to the US.
People talk about the deal with out understanding it... This is a american way of stopping the indian progress.... Wake up Indians.....read more about the deal... stop this deal.....
RE:Wake up Indians..... stop the deal!! HELP INDIA
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 02:36 AM Permalink
please read the fine print of the deal. It is important that we understand its implications for india in the long run. The benefits are more economic than strategic. Let us not beat our chests in jingoistic patriotism. It will get us nowhere. Even the chinese allied with Nixons USA to rise to the top. O' God !!!! Please save us from Karat, save us from Karunanidhi and save us from ourselves!!
RE:Wake up Indians..... stop the deal!! HELP INDIA
by Pramod V on Oct 16, 2007 03:12 AM Permalink
The total cost of this deal is more than $200 billion. If india goes ahead with this., then all we will have is nuclear energy and no growth....Boss, please understand that US is selling this
RE:Wake up Indians..... stop the deal!! HELP INDIA
by albert fernandes on Oct 16, 2007 03:54 AM Permalink
You bring about an Excellent point. I am glad we are talking numbers here. I am not debating the number here. It may infact turn out to be more, and I wish it will be more for these reasons. 1. We will not be giving that money away. It will be buying planes, fighter jets, heavy lift helicopters, nuclear plants, space technology and such that should boost our economy. 2. We will be buying these from Russians or Europeans anyway. 3. We spent billions buying MIGs and Sukhois from Russians. Now can we build our own fighter aircraft or jet engine? The russians have not given us anything for free either. 4. If we are open, other will be open to us. We let LAFARGE of france buy our cement companies, and they let Mittal buy Arcelor steel. We cannot be in a shell anymore. 5. After 10 years when we look back, the 200 or 300 billion will look like peanuts, because we will have more electricity and a strong economy. 6. Indians may be owning land rover, jaguar, and become powerful global corporations. All we are doing here is moving 200-300 billion dollars from the russian/european account to the american account. The only question is whether it is worth pissing the russians off and what the consequences will be.
Mr. Uday Bhaskar, your urge is irrevalent because why BJP should support Govt when Govt not allowing opposition in the discussion and in the panel they formed. Most importantly in order to get passed by the majority of MPs, why Govt avoided joint parliamentary committee? If Govt (say Sonia Maino) does not respect, or learn how to respect opposition, then there is no point BJP support Govt with BLANK Cheque.
If PVN Rao or Vajpayee would have been there in place of spineless MMSingh in the highest office, they must tried to resolve taking opposition MPs into the review panel. I believe, not only BJP, but also people of India should thorugh this spinless Govt (read Sonia Maino, a foreigner). Sonia Maino could not do a shit in Italy. Congress is a true slave of a foreigner...
Sonia Maino, MMSingh and congress chamchas were chanting to go ahead with N-deal for "national interest". Now why are they holding it back and putting in dark hole? Their "national interest" has blown away !
The author expects the BJP to support the N-deal and believes that it will enhance its stature! This is completely naive. The left front which supports the government is a natural congress ally has decided to oppose the deal. In case the deal is operationalized, they will withdraw support. So the authors suggestion is that BJP, which is the main opposition party should save the nuclear deal and allow it to be operational. This would mean supporting the government! So the deal will go through, the left will withdraw support and the UPA government will survive with BJP support!!
The author probably needs to take some lessons in politics! If the Congress cannot take along an ally, it expects the opposition to "behave patriotically" and support the government!! No wonder the author is an academician !
Mr. Uday Bhaskar, your urge is irrevalent because why BJP should support Govt when Govt not allowing opposition in the discussion and in the panel they formed. Most importantly in order to get passed by the majority of MPs, why Govt avoided joint parliamentary committee? If Govt (say Sonia Maino) does not respect, or learn how to respect opposition, then there is no point BJP support Govt with BLANK Cheque.
If PVN Rao or Vajpayee would have been there in place of spineless MMSingh in the highest office, they must tried to resolve taking opposition MPs into the review panel. I believe, not only BJP, but also people of India should throw this spinless Govt (read Sonia Maino, a foreigner). Sonia Maino could not do a shit in Italy. Congress is a true slave of a foreigner...
Sonia Maino, MMSingh and congress chamchas were chanting to go ahead with N-deal for "national interest". Now why are they holding it back and putting in dark hole? Their "national interest" has blown away !
Why BJP has to support Congress now. Afterall getting less seats in the Locksaba and tied up with Left only for keeping BJP out, telling SC that there's no one such as Ram, bringing Quoto in Higher studies. This govt should go at any cost atleast for the Divide and Conquer politics of Congress. Giving Quoto to Muslims in AP, let them go down. BJP, dont support Congress.
