Each Country needs a Strong Leader to prosper. And Musharraf has provided Pakistan the much needed leadership that was always required.
Yes, he came to power in a not-so-acceptable way. But that was most logical for that time. Had it been any one else, he would have done exactly the same way. But, Musharraf did not kill any Bhuttos, as Zia did. He is not a corrupt person as Benazir and Nawaz had been when they were in power. He has brought Pakistan from the brink of an economic disaster to a vibrant economy.
Had I been a Pakistani, I would surely have voted for him. A majority of Pakistani will surely do that.
And the day Musharraf goes, that county would go into chaos. And that would not be good for India as well. At least let the change-over be smooth and let it take some time.
RE:Musharraf Is The Best Bet
by Loan Shark on Nov 15, 2007 06:01 AM Permalink
I would agree but we do not yet know how corrupt Musharaff has been ... it has been mostly military rule in his regime with Bhutto and shariff both being in exile.
Musharraf always enjoyed the english media when he was compared as a much powerful adminstrator then old crippled vajpayyee, in their UN summit. Today pakistan realized while Vajapayyed put India on the path of Glory with the N-TEST, and shown maturity during the Kargil war, Mush lead the pakistan to Hell - by pardoning the Father of N-tech of Pakistan. If these muslims do not know how to rule, then why they asked for pakistan. Even during the mullah kings in India, really hindus controlled the economy and their Darbars... These people only know how to do war and win - by cheatting etc. But do not know how to govern. Those Imrans and Mohammand in India should remember that, before showing their support to Pakistan. There will be exodus of Pakis in India in next 2-3 years, We need Narendra Modi as PM by 2009 to stop that..
The Pakistan's whole history was not to exists as a separate entity but to prove that it's existence was better than India...
Primary reason for Muslims to break away from Hindu India was fear of being a minority and at the same time less freedom of religious expression which both were wrong..
Infact its this mentality to have religion above country pulled Pakistan to its current level..
Most of the moderate Muslims believe Islam is a religion of Peace and this is OK if they live amongst Muslims. But the moment the Muslim world tries to interact with other non-muslim world that's where their definition of Prosparity and Peace starts getting into trouble..
Other religions have lesser grip over day to day lives of people. Hence there is window of opportunity to experiment and evolve..
In a muslim world the grip of the religion is so tight that it takes more time for the people to evolve let alone experiment.. Even the most evolved Muslim society, Turkey is not immune to this..
Right from Saudi to Somalia this pattern is very noticable... But the exception to the rule is Muslims in India.. I think they are gonna be the ambassadors of evolution to the other Muslims parts of the world...
I wish one day that M&M (Moderate muslims) evolve much beyond their Sharia based mind and really experiment what's really out there in nature. If they give sufficient room for their kids to evlove then there is no stopping of a prosporous India. It's already happening..
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by vinamra singhai on Nov 14, 2007 10:15 PM Permalink
very beautiful...now I have a more rational approach of the problems of muslims communities around the world
RE:RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:18 PM Permalink
Great comments Sirji I%u2019m one of the Moderate muslims infact I don%u2019t belive in any of the religons as all are illogical and big scams to exploit people. My religion is humanity and I write against anyone who does injustice to the common man who is striving hard to make ends meet.
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by arjun on Nov 15, 2007 04:44 AM Permalink
I agree that islam is undergoing change-but killing people in the name of religion is islams greatest sin.People in this forum may dispute the statement but for every blast by nonmuslims-there are 20 blasts done by muslims to kill people-there are so called scholars who come to this forum to equally put RSS and Jihad groups on same pedestal-but they need to think that even survival is hard if RSS wants to spread terror.But thats not the case.All those people who point fingers at Indian secularism have to look at world map and show one islamic country that is secular (barring turkey) and if they can show one more-even then they must look at other european and indian societies to see the difference.To ignore this huge difference is blindness and those people deserve no respect even as human beings.Today pakistan is considered the most dangerous country on globe-is that a slap on those muslims who thought islam is greater than indian tradition of securalism ?????Well- wait to watch the final debacle.Instead of selfrealisation-these muslims point fingers at everycountry from USA to India as enemies.They do not have basic discipline to vote a assembly member-but they want democracy??????Funny.
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by arkit on Nov 14, 2007 10:24 PM Permalink
if ur religion is humanity then support Bush. He took action against Taliban. The same taliban hijacked Indian plane and took to Kandahar where innocent Indian was killed. Saddam's two son used to rape beautiful girls and next to throw them in a keema machine. Why does Iran need nuclear weapons. If they get it they will use it against India. Let us strenghen Bushes hand. He is the one giving nuclear deal to India
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:31 PM Permalink
Dear Arkit u must be joking Bush does not stand for humanity. Do u realize how many people he has killed in iraq for oil. Bush lied to the whole world that Iraq had WMD but where were they?? Bush went to iraq for oil and for forming a base in Middle east. There is a great documentary I forgot which got released in US 2 years back u should see that u will realize what is Bush. U know how many Iraqi children and women have been raped by the us military. Dude don%u2019t just go by the media and say US is fighting a war on terror. US is the prime reason for terror to start.
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by arkit on Nov 14, 2007 11:11 PM Permalink
US only kicks out terrorists and I am against them. So I live here. Millions of muslims also live here with self dignity. See if u can convince them to leave this place. The also follow uniform civil code. Only in India there is separate marriage law for u guys. Let Bush prevent Iran from becoming nuclear. Remember India was under british for 200 years whereas for 400 years they were under muslim rule making no progress. India and US r natural allies in the field of education, democracy, etc. Let these two countries come together against terrorism.
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by arkit on Nov 14, 2007 10:53 PM Permalink
U can cook a sweet story in ur dream. I live in USA and have seen protest against Iraq war. That is called real democracy. Can the same thing happen in a rogue countries against their ruler? No never, they will chop them. Can u support those talibans? You know what they did with Indians. Can u justify Saddam's sons. They were real rapists. I talked to a number of Iraqi's in person here and know the story. Millions of muslims living in US with pride. They donot have any complain and they donot want to leave this country because of the freedom they enjoy here. Do not make up ur world in illusion. What power US has today if they same power these rogue countries would have have, what they can do can u imagine? Will they allow any other religion to survive in this world?
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 11:00 PM Permalink
Dude the whole world knows that US is a big rowdy nation maybe u don%u2019t want to say bcoz u are staying in US and might be kicked out from there I don%u2019t blame u. I%u2019m not justifying Saddam I know he was evil but how can u justify the thousand of innocent people who have been killed in iraq. I know if Islamic terrorists had the power of US they would be more dangerous but if u compare two evils and say one is better then there is no logic the conclusion is both are evil but one is in uniform so people don%u2019t mind what they do.
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by pattu on Nov 14, 2007 10:43 PM Permalink
Excellent posting. I am disgusted by the Muslim attitude of intolernce to other faiths and beliefs. But I totally agree with you that Indian Muslims are somewhat different. Thats because they are in the mainstream of our Indian society. For example when we discuss about president Kalam, SRK, Sania Mirza or Bismillah Khan their Indian identity is much above than Muslim only identity. This is the greatness of Hindustan that everybody, irrespective of religion or class is allowed to contribute in the society. I am proud to be an Indian for this very nature and I hope my fellow Muslim brothers will follow the wisdom of Kalam Sir and others rather than the ideology of Bin Laden which is nothing but self destruction.
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
Sir majority of the muslims are peaceful in India its only a few who are brainwashed and commit acts of terror. Can u tell me from independence till date how many bomb blast were done by muslims to kill hindus. I blame the political parties namely the BJP and Congress who were responsible for Babri Masjid demolition after which the country fell into riots. The common man is only concerned about his daily bread but parties don%u2019t want this they want to divide people to get votes.
RE:RE:RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 11:02 PM Permalink
Buddha ji I'm not a follower of islam so dont take me on islam I belive all religions are stupid and illogical and those who think their religion is superior are fooling thmeselves.
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by Sarith Sircar on Nov 14, 2007 11:22 PM Permalink
Dont talk crap Imran! You can't be a muslim and not be a follower of Islam! Rather than chickening out, stand for your beliefs and defend your beliefs!
RE:The Question one has to ask is why did Pakistan Fail?
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:16 PM Permalink
Great comments sirji I'm a moderate muslim infact I dont belive in islam nor any religion bcoz all are illogical and big scams to exploit people.I write against inhuman people let it be muslims or hindus bcoz for me the common man who is striving to earn his daily bread is important.
It's a shame that fate of country like Pakistan is now in USA hand. Bhutto urging USA to interfere and find a safe exit for musharaf is very sad. It's threat ti India also if USA controls the politically pakistan as they have done in Afganistan and Iraq.
RE:Very SAD
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:11 PM Permalink
Bush is the biggest terrorist in the world and is bent on casuing between nations and communities so that all perish and only christianity preavils. Bush is a staunch christian and takes advice from reverends. Christains are know for their divide and rule policy.
RE:Very SAD
by arkit on Nov 14, 2007 10:15 PM Permalink
Bush teaching good lessons to all terrorists. Let us pray to God that he does the same to rogue Iran. That will be good for ndia.
RE:Very SAD
by Peace on Nov 14, 2007 10:49 PM Permalink
with IRAN is good for india, Are you joking. IRAN is good friend of india like IRAQ. This is just to control OIL reserved they have. there are lot of terririst country but US has no interest why ??
RE:Very SAD
by lipson varghese on Nov 14, 2007 10:53 PM Permalink
But muslims all around the world are known for their rapes, terrorism , murrderies,bomb explosions,hijackings and black magic.You bloody idiot first you understand and correct the evils teachimgs of your most hatred (by all non-muslims) and most notorious (always preaching the bloody jehad of killing non-muslims)religion and then only you have the right even to speak in such a civilized forum where descent people express their views.
RE:Very SAD
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 11:05 PM Permalink
Lipson chrisatins dont hhave any right to speak about moral values they sleep wih their own moms and sisters so shut up
RE:Very SAD
by QandA on Nov 14, 2007 10:19 PM Permalink
That doesn't neutralize what was happening in the name of religion in Pakistan.. Pakistan was/is asking a part of India on the basis of religion. They don't even care about the welbeing of Kasmiri poeple. This is a suffcient proof of Religion over country..
Once that happens then there is no rational existence of any judiciary or a constitution or a Pakistan..
In order for a mind set to have institutions that help people solve their problems the capacity to think beyond religion needs to exists.. I wonder how a Muslim leader in Pakistan is going to do a 5 year progress plan for ALL OF ITS CITIZEN when on one front it was fighting a proxy religious war with India...
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Kabeer on Nov 14, 2007 10:16 PM Permalink
Dear Mihir,
Unfortunately for India, Pakistan can launch a nuclear attack on India but not the otherway. Do you know why? If Pakistan wanted, they can bombard Kolkata, Delhi, Chennai, Mumbai without the radiation hitting the Pakistani soil and its citizens.
But if India wanted, what choices it has? It has only two; Lahore and Karachi, right? Nuking tribal areas of Wazirstan is not worth the effort and its subsequent international reactions and sanctions.
Then what India do, if it Nukes Lahore, in half an hour of the explosion Sardars in Amritsar will fall one after the other due to radiation. Is not Amritsar just half an hours drive from Lahore? So, Lahore is ruled out.
That leaves India with Karachi; technically, it can nuke Karachi. But almost all the Mohajirs in Karachi are from Indian states of UP and Bihar where their kith and kin still live. India being a democracy can not antagonise its precious vote bank. In Indian democracy just 4percent vote swing is sufficient to determine which party should come into power and Muslims constitute 15percent.
So in the final analysis, India can only nuke Pak if Pak first nukes India but not the otherway round.
Being big has its disadvantages; remember the famous David vs GOliath? Goliath was so big that whatever David throws it will hit Goliath in some part of the body whereas Goliath has to concentrate to hit David as he is so small. SO the chances of ammunition going waste is high for Goliath.
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Pankaj Mohan on Nov 14, 2007 10:34 PM Permalink
Kabeer, the thought of a nuclear war itself is unnecessary and the original poster is surely not serious while writing about it. However, your calculations regarding the vote bank politics etc are also a little too exaggerated. Do you think they would think such favors when deciding to kill millions on each side? Had that been the spirit, they (both of them) wouldn't have killed tens of thousands in 1947...that too when Mahatma was still alive!
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Kabeer on Nov 14, 2007 10:48 PM Permalink
Dear Pankaj, 1947 partition riots were not either sponsored by Congress or Muslim League to be fair to both the parties. It was a spontaneous outrage break which the fledgling nations did not anticipate and are ill prepared to handle. Possibly the British could have prevented it, but they didnt.
Perhaps, you are right my calculations probably are a little far fetched. But what made me to come to that conclusion was, I am seeing clear deterioration of political ethics every five years. Indira Gandhis time was not the same as that of Nehru in terms of political ethics. And Rajivs tenure ethics were considerably lower than Indiras time.
Now I am seeing the cabinet ministers differing with each other publicly on the cabinet decision taken. Never in the history of free India you would have seen this. The collective responsibility outside the cabinet is a gone thing. That made me think that they would do anything that keeps them in power in the next election.
Perhaps I am right or perhaps I am wrong. I dont know. You guys in India should know better!
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Pankaj Mohan on Nov 14, 2007 10:57 PM Permalink
One has to agree with your comments regarding the deterioration of political ethics, and the emerging trend of going to any extent for the sake of garnering votes...no doubts about it!
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:52 PM Permalink
Kabeer Bhai politicians are the same everywhere they will do anything to stay in power so u are right.
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by imran patel on Nov 14, 2007 10:01 PM Permalink
Do you realize what impact that will have our states such as Rajasthan, Gujarat, Punjab, and many more.
Ever heard of Ratiation affects. What impact will that have on our food supply and the rivers ?
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by vinamra singhai on Nov 14, 2007 10:12 PM Permalink
imran..for them life is a joke..dying and killing is fun..people like mihir are barbarians in today's world...and you can't change all this on your own..anyway great for putting a 100% percent effort...
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:20 PM Permalink
They have not faced riots and blasts in real life only in reel life once they encounter death they will know what is life till then they will speak only abt killing and destroying.
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Abdul on Nov 14, 2007 10:06 PM Permalink
none. The wind waves are in North East direction. That can have impact on China not india. Also there are strategic places where you can hit the n-bombs. Yes if Pakistan hits on any of your mentioned places - it will have a great impact???
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by imran patel on Nov 14, 2007 10:09 PM Permalink
A majority of our water sources originate in the Himalayas...What happens if the Himalayas are affected by the Radiation ?
Can you control the direction of wind flow...where do you guys get these ideas from and the nerve to defend them.
RE:i wish nuclear get to taliban
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 10:04 PM Permalink
Imran guys like mihir know only to talk nonsense. He doesnt know what effects a nuclear bomb has.
Pakistan as a failed state or India where the governments have failed to delivery, begs us to ask ourselves one simple question, "Is the government capable of solving these problems ?"
My answer is a big NO. For every propblem in our life we think that the government is responsible to solve it. Why is that so ?
Why do we expect FREE education, FREE Healthcare, Job Guarantees, Lower Prices etc from the government ? What makes us think that the government can delivery ?
Thats the crux of our problems. The government is a management nightmare, BJP or Congress. We need limited governments, smaller governments. Smaller goverments means more personal responsibility.
We seem to like the idea of a Welfare state where the govt collects huge amount of Taxes and then gives us subsidy. Why do we want that ? Why dont we let the market decide ?
Why are we so dependent on the government?
We need to challenge this. The bigger the government, the more the corruption and more favourtism and more manipulation.
Why is the government running the railways, the airports, the water supply, electricity...DO you know how inefficiently these places are run ? Who is paying for all that ?
Unless we reaslize this, there will be no difference in governance...BJP or Congress !!!
RE:Please think...before it is too late.
by vinamra singhai on Nov 14, 2007 10:02 PM Permalink
simply amazing and something that we need to think about ..I learned something great today..thanks
RE:Please think...before it is too late.
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 09:58 PM Permalink
Dude if u dont have the intellectual capacity to give good comments then get out of this forum.
RE:Please think...before it is too late.
by sunil varma on Nov 14, 2007 10:11 PM Permalink
i complealty second u somepeople just dont have the ability to think rationally i call them intelectual handicaps Mr mihir seems to be one of them..... I also beleive that the concept of welfare state has been a failure....while India in the early independence years needed the state to fund large infrasturcture projects and industries it is a natural and logical progression for the market economy to take over the earlier the better
RE:Please think...before it is too late.
by Sarith Sircar on Nov 14, 2007 11:06 PM Permalink
Imran I think you are badly mistaken. Capitalism or market economies will never work on its own unless moderated by a statutory body, which in most cases is the government. I am not commending the government for their failure to deliver. But the fact of the matter is that they have done a fairly good job, if not a great job. Market mobilization is strongly dependent on government policies, so don't rule out the importance of the government. And reading between the lines in your comments, I presume you vouch for smaller governments. So you favour smaller governence units? Does that mean you, in a very subtle way, are advocating 'divide-n-rule'????
RE:RE:Bhutto Style Democracy
by imran patel on Nov 14, 2007 09:49 PM Permalink
So much for your parents effort to get your educated. You have shamed them today and also their sacrifices.
RE:Bhutto Style Democracy
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 09:54 PM Permalink
Imran Bhai dont bother abt people like Om they cant do good to themself what good will they do to others
RE:Bhutto Style Democracy
by Manuj Gupta on Nov 14, 2007 10:05 PM Permalink
common man, dun be that harsh on him. He'll learn from his mistakes and he better do.
Om: first, please don't use such language and explicit thoughts, especially publicly.
Second, a strong Pakistan is good for India in the longer run. This is true as I have spent years researching the Asian economy. Tactfully, India should hope for a better Pakistan
RE:RE:Bhutto Style Democracy
by Sarith Sircar on Nov 14, 2007 11:48 PM Permalink
Manuj, what have you been researching??? A stronger economy for Pakistan will result in more funding for extremists to carry out attacks not only in India but around the world, Pakistan being the centre of terrorism. Maybe economically a strong paki economy can build a bigger asian economy or whatever, but from a strategic perspective, an economically strong Pakistan is a production house for bombs!! get your facts right Gupta sahab!
RE:Bhutto Style Democracy
by imran patel on Nov 14, 2007 09:59 PM Permalink
Now why would any parent feel shamed for having a child. Mihir, I am sure your parents weren't shamed either. They maybe after they see your posts. So much for their efforts towards educating you. Well Done.
RE:Bhutto Style Democracy
by imran patel on Nov 14, 2007 09:49 PM Permalink
Om, Even if you have a Drunk neighbour, we are concerned, let alone a criminal neighbour. it does affect us.
A stable Pakistan will NOT be a headache for us. A Pakistan that we can trade with (Have a financial leverage over) will NOT cause us mischive...Why do we not see this ?
Why are we talking about the same policies that have failed for the last 60 years.
RE:Bhutto Style Democracy
by Vikram on Nov 15, 2007 04:12 AM Permalink
Imran Patel are you in insane."A stable pakistan is good for us?" lol.. and you are commenting about the guy not having a intellectual conversation? Sir first of all tell me what a "stable Pakistan" has done for india? Four Wars and a ton of people killed.Give us a break and please shower your intellect on this.As for Bhutto why did she run away if she wasnt afraid of the corruption cases?
A stable Pakistan with transparent Democratic Government is in the interest of India.
People who talk about accelerating the dis-integration of Pakistan are either naive or dumb. They lack the forsight to see the implications of having a failed state next door.
A democratic and financially stable Pakistan is in the long term national interest of India.
People seem to sugget that war and military is the solution to solving these problems. I dare to challenge that notion.
I say TRADE is the best tool to solve these problems.
Trades creates an environment for dialogue, exchange of ideas, interaction between the population. No two countries will fight each other if they are involved in trade.
It is important that the cool heads prevail as oppose to the hate mongering on either sides.
RE:Stable Pakistan with transparent Democratic Government...
by sri on Nov 14, 2007 09:54 PM Permalink
Imran, I can understand your fear of an unstable Pakistan. But it is misplaced. A relatively stable Pak has not been good for India. It has done everything to bring India to her knees - islamic terrorism in Kashmir and other areas, allying with China, spreading disaffection among our Indian muslims are some major examples. I would argue that breaking Pak into 5 provinces is actually very good for the world. It will bring more order and allow the 5 provinces to be more manageable. They will cease to be a long-term threat.
After they stabilize themselves and realize that Islamic radicalism is as bad for them as it is for others (which they are slowly now), and learn to live with other religions, India can form a loose federation with them and other countries of South Asia. Can you imagine what a powerful force that will be in the wrold?
RE:Stable Pakistan with transparent Democratic Government...
by Imran on Nov 14, 2007 09:49 PM Permalink
Imran Bhai dont break ur head over pakistan they will jsut fight b/w themselves
RE:Stable Pakistan with transparent Democratic Government...
by imran patel on Nov 14, 2007 09:53 PM Permalink
You know, if there is trouble in the neighbouhood, it eventually spills into your home. if there is a civil war in Pakistan, there will be an influx of refugees...Oil prices will go up...Our economy and world economy will slow down. Jobs will be Lost.
These things are related. Guys take some lessons in basic economics...
